The E-cumbent - A project by Matt Shumaker

Thanks Man.

I will order one ASAP.

I just came in from a mileage test ride. I did no pedalling what-so-ever. I averaged 18 to 20 mph (one run of 26mph) with a few mild rolling hills (again, no pedalling). That ride netted 13.4wh per mile! That is my best efficiency yet.

What I have figured out is, my AXI was efficient no matter how I rode it. This motor is far more powerful than the AXI. It is also a huge current hog IF I crank it hard. If I merely run it gently and coast whenever possible, this Plettenberg is very efficient as well.

Anyway, so far so good.

Matt
 
GGoodrum said:
I then switched to a different setup, using a big inrunner motor, from Steve Neu (http://www.neumotors.com), which had a hefty (by RC standards...) 6.75:1 planetary gearbox:


This solved the gear stripping/belt shredding problem, but this beast is $500, without the gearbox, which is another $200, I think.

In the end, it was not having a freewheel up front that got me off of this path, and into the big Clytes. I've always had it in the back of my mind, though, that making use of the existing bike gearing, to get the torque advantage, is still a better way to go, mainly because you can get away with a smaller/lighter motor.
-- Gary
Click to expand...

GGoodrum said:
The P62 is what is on the 2215-3Y pictured above. It is a beast, compared to what I'm used to seeing with these type of gearboxes, and uses high-quality needle bearings internally. I believe these come from Germany, or Switzerland, I can't remember. In any case, the combo should be able to supply plenty of power. Steve is famous for building extremely efficient motors. He uses only the highest quality steel in the stators, and the best magnets available. The stators are hand-wound.

The kV of this motor is 480 rpm/volt, so with the 6.75:1 reduction, it would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for the Cyclone 1000W motor. At 52V this spins at about 21000 rpm, which is coasting for this motor, which can go as high as 60,000 rpm. I know Steve has tested them even higher. So "overvolting" them is not an issue, but geting an RC-type controller to go beyond about 60V could be a problem.

Anyway, fun stuff. :) I'm definitely going to give the 2215/P62 setup a "spin", hopefully in the not so distant future.

-- Gary
Click to expand...

Hi Gary,

How noisy (or hopefully how quiet) was the P62?

This thread has instructions for building your own front freewheel using quality components (looks pretty easy).
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1757&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=45

Thanks!

Mitch
 
Gary rarely checks his threads. So, it may take a while for him to get back to you. :wink:

Those gear cases are not extremely noisey, but they are not silent either. Kind of hard to explain. I am not sure how they would sound driving the loads we are seeing.

Oh, I have been doing alot of testing. My efficiency keeps improving. I am getting used to the characteristics of my motor and my wiring changes have helped.

Matt
 
recumpence said:
Gary rarely checks his threads. So, it may take a while for him to get back to you. :wink:

Those gear cases are not extremely noisey, but they are not silent either. Kind of hard to explain. I am not sure how they would sound driving the loads we are seeing.

Oh, I have been doing a lot of testing. My efficiency keeps improving. I am getting used to the characteristics of my motor and my wiring changes have helped.

Matt
Click to expand...

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the reply. I will be interested to hear what Gary says since he actually used one on an ebike.

I'm not sure what impresses me more. The quality of your initial design and build or the ongoing tweaking and improvements.
 
Hi Matt,

If I don't hear from Gary in a day or so I'll send the PM.

Follow up question (that will be added to the pm also) is do you know of a similar gearbox that is quiet or at least less noisy?

Do you think it would be possible and effective to mount it in a small vented (probably with a fan) enclosure possibly with some sound deadening?

Thanks!

Mitch
 
I just got in from a long (6.57 mile) ride at full throttle the entire way (38 to 40mph). That run averaged 25WH per mile. :D

Oh, last evening a local guy who is building his own RC motored recumbent came by to see my bike. He asked if I would ever want to build him one. I told him I would not want to, but I would consider selling it at the end of the season to fund another build. I told him $5,000. He said he would take it.

Man, there sure is a pent up desire for good e-bikes.

When I am ready to build another (when the snow flies), I will call him and see if he is still interested. :wink:

Matt
 
None. Oh, wait, I did some fake pedalling to look like a normal bike (with Lance Armstrong at the healm :wink: ).

I did a little coasting down hills, but at taht speed, I am only off the throttle for a few seconds and back on for the next hill.

My efficiency is WAY up with this wiring corrected. I can get down to 13.4wh per mile (no pedalling) at 18 mph average if I am careful not to accellerate too hard and coast whenever possible. Plus, 25wh per mile is awesome for 38 to 40 mph.

Actually, I think my speedo is reading a bit low. I was on two separate 40mph roads today. On both roads I had to slow down behind cars. My speedo said they were going 37 mph and I wanted to see 40 (oh drafting works behind cars by the way). :wink: I wish I could draft more. I only had about 1/2 mile of drafting and the bike was noticeably faster.

Tomorrow I will radar the bike and compare that reading with my speedo to see how fast it really is geared for.

I feel like gearing up and trying for 50. But, admittedly, I have very few places I would like to go that fast and I do not trust my brakes at that speed. 40 is plenty.

Matt
 
GPS is pretty accurate for speed checking.
 
Sorry for the delay. As Matt points out,I've been busier than a one-armed paper hanger lately, and it just got worse this past week, as I've taken on a new consulting job.

The P62 is actually pretty quiet, by itself. Not much noiser than the motor alone. The Cyclone setup is really noisy, by comparison, but most of that is in the chain drive to the front sprocket. The freewheel might be a contributor to the noise as well. When I finally do get time to try this on my 16" Dahon folding bike, I'm thinking of switching to a finer pitch chain for the motor-front sprocket stage.

-- Gary
 
Are there any updates on a current limiting circuit for hobby controllers? I have been looking for a couple years for something to do this but have had no luck what so ever.
 
I talked with Castle about it, and we can have on the fly current limiting on the industrial controllers. It will take a bit of modification of the current design to have a POT connect right in without some sort of IC in between, but they said that it is possible and feasible.


Which version of 90v controller should we get modified first? The 110 or the 200a version? I am probably going to spring for the 200a version first so that I don't have to upgrade EVER.
 
John Tetz retrofitted a current controller to his RC Servo controller, and has documented in on this page:

http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/tetz/CurrentLimiter/default.htm

He also came up with a nice spike reduction. His system uses an on/off switch rather than a varistor to control the speed, but it looks like it works very well.

-Warren.
 
Yah fecher had also given me a diagram like that a while ago and I really tried hard to get it to work with a setup but ended up scraping the project after several failed attempts. I'm trying to find a controller (ESC) or unit to do the current limiting work for me. I am really considering trying something like the Make microcontroller - http://makezine.com/controller/ and working with a buddy who is a programmer. Heck it looks like it might be possible to use the controller as a the actual motor controller all around. Then I could hook a hall thottle directly up, a nice hall based current shunt, ect.
 
GGoodrum said:
Sorry for the delay. As Matt points out,I've been busier than a one-armed paper hanger lately, and it just got worse this past week, as I've taken on a new consulting job.

The P62 is actually pretty quiet, by itself. Not much noiser than the motor alone. The Cyclone setup is really noisy, by comparison, but most of that is in the chain drive to the front sprocket. The freewheel might be a contributor to the noise as well. When I finally do get time to try this on my 16" Dahon folding bike, I'm thinking of switching to a finer pitch chain for the motor-front sprocket stage.

-- Gary
Click to expand...

Hi Gary,

Thank You Very Much!

Mitch
 
Miles and John,

I spoke with Castle Creations today. They said the HV110 logic board will plug directly into the Hydra FET board input. This is good news! I have a donor HV110 I want to use the board from. The HV110 has better software than the hydra for our purposes, but the Hydra handles alot more current. So, I will be doing that soon. :wink:

Matt
 
Hey Matt,

This is the batteries you chose to make your pack, right?

http://www.maxamps.com/products.php?cat=24

I've never dealt with lithium and need to learn (I'm considering these). Do you know of a reliable tutorial page that covers the full topic from wiring them up, to the bms, to charging and care etc...?

edit: WOW, price went up!
 
Yes, those are the cells. Yes, the price did, indeed go up. They were $37.50 each 3 months ago.

I spoke with Maxamps about this and told them I want to buy 12 to 24 more cells, but the price is too high. They told me I could become a dealer for them and get a 15% discount on the cells (I am an RC helicopter manufaturer and I am somewhat known in the industry).

I can possibly include your cells with my order depending on when you wanted yours.

I will PM you my number so we can talk. Lithium batteries are dangerous to use unless you understand them. But, with correct understanding of the care and charging of them, lithium cells are fantastic. Nothing else even comes close. You can achieve 1KWH per ten pounds of lipo cells. I run lithium cells exclusively in every project of mine.

Matt
 
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