The search for 36h rims (16" - 20")

[Projectitis]

Hi all,

I've been searching google for a long time to try to find suitable 36h rims for an escooter build. I'm planning on using the Crystalyte crown motor, which has as OD of 250mm, so the rim would have to be big enough that enough spoke length is still available for a safe and solid wheel.

I would really like 16" but think that may be too small - my guess is that the inner D of a 16" rim would be about 15" (380mm) which would call for spokes about 75mm long. Anyone know if this is too short?

Also, I'd like a tyre a bit wider than a bicycle tyre! More like a smaller motorcycle, or standard scooter tyre (is that, say 60mm or more?).

Lastly, if possible I'd quite like a rim that is relatively easy to come by so that spares/parts in the future are no problem.

Anyone know what I should be looking at? Who I should be talking to?

Any help appreciated,
Peter

 

[Tench]

I have a 16" 36 hole rim and small motorcycle tyre for sale at the moment, it is in a for sale add here;

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=56756

The wheel stands 21.5" tall inflated.

I am sure this could be laced 1 cross onto a hub motor as the spoke holes in the rim are quite angled. I have just laced a 17" rim 1 cross onto a HT3525 motor, the spokes where 103mm.

 

[Projectitis]

Hehe thanks Tench. I'm guessing the postage halfway around the world will be a bit prohibitive on this for me. Hope you get a bite soon.

I'm also after a rim I can get ongoing supply - not just a one-off.

 

[amberwolf]

Have you poked around the moped/motorcycle tire discussion threads here on ES? A number of rim suggestions came up on those.

 

[Projectitis]

Thanks amberwolf - I've tried (and will continue to do so) but it's difficult to search for because 'rim' and '16' or '19' or '20' (etc) come up in about a million posts

 

[amberwolf]

Yep, but "moped" or "motorcycle" and "tire" probably don't. :wink:

It helps a lot if you search on the thread *title* specifically, too, and display as threads, not posts. Then you can find a group of threads about those, and go from there first.

Also, remember that anything that might also be posted as plural, or with a different suffix, you can use the root word with * at the end (or beginning) of it. So "tire*" will find tire and tires. "Rim*" will find rim and rims. Batter* will find battery and batteries.

 

[Projectitis]

A lot of searching later (on these forums, using suggestions above plus others), and still nothing. Problem is that there may be talk/mentions here and there within topics, but doesn't seem like any threads dedicated to the right stuff. Short of reading/scanning every single post that mentions tire/tyre/rim etc, I don't think I'd find the tidbits I'm after.

If you have any specific linkys I would be most grateful - or if you've given your wisdom in the past - please give it again, with my apologies Promise I'll listen.

 

[madin88]

16" moped rims are same size as 20" bmx / bicycle rims, so the tires should more or less fit among each other.

with the Crown motor and 16" rims, spoke angle will be a problem for 1-cross. Lacing straight pull would be an option, but i would not do this because of the high torque the motor will produce.

When lacing heavy hubs in small rims i think its better to use motorcycle rims, or very very good 20" double wall bmx rims.
The benefit of motorcycle rims is they are more stable and designed for steeper spoke angles, but 16" moped rims and the Crown will still cause the spokes to bend a lot i think.

If you are going to use 20" bmx rims, you will have to drill the spoke holes to the right angle (lots of work and care must be taken).
Use 12ga or smaller spokes for bicycle rims. Bigger spokes will break through the rim when tension them.

17" moped rims maybe will have the right angle and are the best choice :wink:

good bicycle rims:

http://www.gsportbmx.com/products/rims/ribcage/
http://www.weinmanntek.com/Products/RACE/List.htm

good moped rims:

http://www.prowheelracing.com/yamaha-play-bike-rims/

the 16", 17" pro wheel rims are about 1kg heavy. bmx rims are about 0,5kg heavy.

custom lenght spokes you can order from holmeshobbies, voltriders. I think they also offer some moped rims.

 

[Projectitis]

Wow - thanks for the great info.

I have a guy here who will make the spokes, calculate and drill the rims etc, so I can get it all custom made.
I'll check out the links you provided.
BTW - why are 20" BMX rims the same size as 16" moped rims? I thought the dimension related to the diameter, so how could both be the same size with different diamaters?

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

Wow - thanks for the great info.

I have a guy here who will make the spokes, calculate and drill the rims etc, so I can get it all custom made.
I'll check out the links you provided.
BTW - why are 20" BMX rims the same size as 16" moped rims? I thought the dimension related to the diameter, so how could both be the same size with different diamaters?

motorcycle vs bicycle rims & tires are not measured the same..
bicycle wheel measurement includes the tire (nominal)
motorcycle rim measurement does not include tire..
they are not exactly the same but may have some interchangeability..

 

[Projectitis]

Ah thank you, efMX!

17" moped rims maybe will have the right angle and are the best choice

@madin88, can you explain your comment as to why 17" are the best choice? Is it just because they may be the right angle, or are there other reasons? For example - are they more common, cheaper, more options etc?

 

[madin88]

BTW - why are 20" BMX rims the same size as 16" moped rims? I thought the dimension related to the diameter, so how could both be the same size with different diamaters?

20" BMX are rims with 406mm ETRTO are same size as 16" moped. There are some other ETRTO 20" bicycle rims on the market so look at this.

@madin88, can you explain your comment as to why 17" are the best choice? Is it just because they may be the right angle, or are there other reasons? For example - are they more common, cheaper, more options etc?

As far as i could see on some pics the crown motors seems to have spoke holes closer together than normal. This will cause in a less steep spoke angle which is very good for 1-cross AND straight pull, but i can not tell you for sure if you can lace it in 16" rims without bending spokes. I think it should be ok with moped rims. BMX rims may must be drilled to the right angle..

What rim size and tire size you choose depends on your preferences. Small wheels will have better acceleration, but less top speed. Motor efficiency also is better with small wheels (less amps needed when climbing steep hills). Bigger wheels feel more comfortable (think of riding over bumps etc.).

 

[Projectitis]

Thanks madin88. My current ride has 20" BMX style wheels - and you are correct - I measured them up and the rims are pretty close to 16". The OD is just shy of 20" (maybe 19.5). That scooter has great acceleration and hill-climbing ability.

I don't have a crown (yet) so I am bringing photos to the local spoke expert (Hamco Industries, Palmerston North, New Zealand) and he's going to suss it out. He is *the* guy recommended by all the local bike shops and has a lot of experience - including whacky custom wheel builds - so he'll know

 

[chisixer6]

I got 16" rims from Niagra cycles, 36H.I mount a cutie 100 type motor on it using 1 cross. tires I used were Maxxis Hookworms 16 x 195.

http://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/wheels/rims/16

http://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/maxxis-hookworm-bmx-tire-16-x-1-95-black-steel

hope this helps.

used on my bike that is my signature

Jerry

 

[Bluefang]

Just look for pitbike rims, or even full wheels. 16" is a uncommon size so will cost alot more for a alloy 36h rim http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/90-100-16-Inch-Alloy-Rear-Wheel-Rim-Nobby-Tyres-Tire-PIT-PRO-Trail-Dirt-Bike-/251187984290?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a7bf877a2 Is a complete wheel, try emailing the shop to see if they have replacement rims.

I personally would go for 17" if you want heavy duty wheels, a gigantic supply of choice over the 16" version. And use 13awg spokes as a max, dirtbike type spokes are not needed and just make the wheel a absolute horror to lace.