Turnigy HXT Powered Custom Cruiser Worklog

[gwhy!]

Just for ref:

size difference between esc.

12fet
6fet
and rehoused hv100 turnigy

The RC esc rehoused contains the BEC, throttle interface and caps but not current limit.

 

[TPA]

who sells the modded 6 fet?

 

[Jeremy Harris]

You can just buy the unmodded 6 FET controllers from Keywin (here: http://cgi.ebay.com/48V-350W-brushless-controller-for-E-bike-scooter_W0QQitemZ260511665860QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ca7b48ec4 and then change the FETs to 4110s and do the shunt mod to up the current. If you want a higher voltage rating too, then changing the dropper resistors before the voltage regulator lets you go up to 100V or so, I believe.

These little controllers are pretty tough, and at around $45 delivered are pretty good value. I've even got one running nicely down at around 12V on my boat system, so they're pretty versatile.

Jeremy

 

[AussieJester]

enoob has generously offered to send me hall sensors BIG Thanks mate so... i have gone ahead and bought the 12 fet infineon controller off of E.S memebers Lyen...(Methy replied to my PM and he has none in stock...) be a few weeks before everything is here due to delay in funds transferring from my bank to paypla takes a week :-S...

I have a question regarding the hall sensors, more so the wire length connecting them to the controller, is this better kept to a minimum length? My controller will be some 2 feet from the motor will this be ok or should i re-arrange things to get the wires for the hall sensors shorter?

Also..lowering the LVC of the controller...i have read Mr Fechters post in the infineon controller thread i believe if i jumper R3 on the board with a 10k resistor i can lower the LVC to 38v wich is perfect for my 44v lipo setup...YES Luke i will still go 66v but when i get the halls sorted and working

Thanks to enoob for his generosity and assistance in explaining a few things about hooking up hall sensors, :: cross fingers:: i should be able to pull this off...i know i can make the bracket side of things piece of piss, will get to that before the controller and halls even arrive...I like the look of gwhys bracket in aluminium, i also have polyethylene i could use...is plastic better than metal? or does it make little difference? polished ali would look the shizz hehee..

KiM

 

[boostjuice]

Kim, Matt P (1000w) has the older style of "1000W" motor that included the aluminium heatsink bonded to the casing. The "1500W" motor currently sold by cyclone is the EXACT same motor internally - It just looks different on the outside. The manufacturer that supplies Cyclone - Headline Electric - just simplified the design to a raw rolled steel casing painted black to cut manufacturing costs.
It's a shame they did this as the heatsinked casing looked much more ominous/aggressive, but the newer plain style casing still sheds heat reasonably well if given some airflow (no doubt the black paint helps - think car radiators). Also as Matt and I have discovered, these motors can produce substantially more power if fed more amps. Easily and cheaply done by modding the current sense shunt within the standard controller.

The reason they reclassified the power rating - from a sales perspective at least - from "1000W" to "1500W" is to try and retain this particular model of motor as their most powerful model offered after they more recently started packaging the smaller planetary geared motors with the same 48V external controller that is bundled with the larger non-planetary equipped motors. So after classifying the smaller planetary motors+48V controller as "1200W", they simply "upgraded" the larger model on paper to "1500W" to try and avoid confusion amongst new customers. The problem is, they confused all the others who had visited their website before the changes were made and were used to the old classifications.

Also, they don't have an attached/internal gearbox like the "360W>1200W" smaller motors. The OP shaft is 12mm Diameter with double D Flats that reduce the cross section to 10mm between the two flats. The 12mm section of shaft protudes about 35mm after it tapers down from ~14mm over ~5mm of length from the flange/faceplate.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Kim,

I've run my modified TowerPro outrunners with Hall sensor wires that are around 2 metres long with no problems. I just bundled the 5 Hall wires (ordinary thin hook-up wire, probably 7 x 0.2) along with the three fat phase wires (6mm² silicone wire) into some braided sleeving and it all worked fine.

There are some definite advantages to putting the controller as close to the motor as possible, though, because the phase currents can be much higher than the average battery current, so resistive losses in the phase wires can be quite high. It cuts these losses if you use thick, short, phase wires from the motor to the controller, as you only then need two big wires from the battery to the controller. The downside to this arrangement is that you may need bigger, low ESR, capacitors on the controller if your battery leads get to be too long.

Nice build, really great to see it going so well. I'm really looking forward to seeing how this looks after the paint job.

Jeremy

 

[AussieJester]

Thanks for that information Jeremy, i'll have no issues with where i intend to place the speed controller then ...excellent

I know i stated the bike would be parked up until the sync and surging issues were rectified but there
was still a small issueof onboard video to be shot AND AmberWolf specifically asked for some footage of the linear actuators working.
This has been a bit of a blessing in disguise actually, seeing i have a Infineon ordered and halls on the way,
blowing the HV110 ESC doesn't worry me so much SO i turned up the current to FULL on Mr Fechter SiRs black
box of tricks and low and behold NO MORE surging issues!!! Completely gone !!! Obviously the sync issue at start up
is still there and will not go away, thats just how non sensor motors are i guess...With the swapping
of the caps and the addition of a 470k resistor to the interface the throttle is more friendly at start up, less "all or nothing"
by no means perfect, i guess i'm also getting a lil more used to it, suffice to say i am taking off alot smoother now...

OK..video..First up apologies for the wind noise, you aren't going to hear the outrunner
scream clearly because of it, the first half of the run is all up hill until I get to the road with the
round abouts on it...

[youtube]SxpiCK9yhhQ[/youtube]


(correction...reading at the end is on a Turnigy NOT a Watts Up meter and the battery voltage is 47.74ish sunlight reflection
obscures it...total ~3 volts sag ~5000watts peak and 112amp)

Unbelievingly im still having issues with the back wheel slipping forward !!! What does it take to stop this motor
moving it!!! I am going to place a small piece of aluminium before the hub axle, in the dropout so it cant freakin move at all...

Thats it for now, I wont be doing a whole lot of riding on it aside for the occasional blat around the block when the urge
arrises, but this improvement has definitely givin me a better idea of what to expect when i have the halls and infineon hooked up!

Ciao for now chaps

KiM

EDIT: Should of added in video...bike is in 2nd gear first half of video is all ~1/2 throttle full throttle only on the flat section of road (one with round abouts)

 

[biohazardman]

Nice vid Kim! Good to see you up to speed and think I saw a hint of an EV grin there somewhere in the vid did I not? ;^) Looks like it will be fine with the few bugs you have left werqed out. Oh, almost fergot to say nice helmet too people will know it's you from along way off. ;^)

 

[boostjuice]

Love the camera position. I will have to copy that myself.

Kim that helmet is the Tits!! are the spikes metal or made to look like metal? If they are metal it would make for some interesting crash dynamics

 

[AussieJester]

Love the camera position. I will have to copy that myself.

Kim that helmet is the Tits!! are the spikes metal or made to look like metal? If they are metal it would make for some interesting crash dynamics

Cheers mate... the camera is actually mounted on ~5 foot steel poll i duct taped to the side of the frame, worked out quite
well i thought ...cept for the wind noise, needs some foam over the mic i think? The Helmet is one i ONLY wear when filming
for YouTube vids etc...the spikes aree foam filled, the helmet cost 10 bucks from Bali mate bought it back for me 18 months or so ago.

Shamelessly Re-Posting vid on new page here..

[youtube]SxpiCK9yhhQ[/youtube]

Will Save punters going back a page to to view it

Cheers fellas

KiM

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Absolutely brilliant, Kim, great work!

I love the helmet, it looks even better than the cover I have on mine (from here: http://www.sillyhelmetcovers.com/)

Jeremy

 

[AussieJester]

AWESOME i want one of them silly helmet covers!!!! you could put one on a high end helmet, mine is a plastic piece of rubbish, a Emooo egg shell worn as a helmet would offer more protection LoL..

Cheers Jeremy...

KiM

 

[AussieJester]

So I guess that you're still using the original controller, but with the blown cap replaced?

Yes and no, haven't replaced the cap cut one of the legs like Luke suggested so it doesn't short anything, other than that it performs same as before it blew...does have 5 extra larger caps added before the ESC though that aren't 'standard' Frank... :wink:

(as an aside I didn't know that Aus drive on the same side of the road as the UK...)

Indeed we do, we drive on the left which is right North Americans drive on the right which is wrong

KiM

 

[Ypedal]

lol.. i wuz thinking the same thing.. " that dude's gonna get creamed !! " then i realized.... it's normal on the other side of the globe

Nice work ! the hxt sounds pretty good, not that different from the astro actually ( i know, alot depends on the mic on digicam.. ) does the controller stutter from a dead stop ? or was that chatter at the very beginning something else ?

 

[enoob]

great stuff.

I gave him grief for driving on the wrong side of the road as well. although i wish we did the same here, make it alot easier to toss the empty beer bottles in the ditch after you've had a few it gets hard to get em all the way across the road while driving an all.

That is some of the best video ive seen in a while on a few levels. AJ i dont know how into self promotion you are but one video including some stills taking us from your before shots (the ones of a pile of steel lengths) with some of the major steps along the way and then that last shot of you transitioning from the chair to the bike and riding off !! bloody inspiring and id be amazed if this dont land you a spot in that magazine that poster on youboob works for.

ps: my advice on halls is what it is eh! my notes are written on toilet paper! AND i have yet to make it work im only leaning on what ive read.

 

[TPA]

Indeed we do, we drive on the left which is right North Americans drive on the right which is wrong

KiM

You guys drive on the left so there will be more room for North Americans to pass you on the right.

 

[AussieJester]

does the controller stutter from a dead stop ? or was that chatter at the very beginning something else ?

Yes its not quite as bad as it orginally was, once the fechter interface had been modified the throttle in the lower range becomes less sensitive so you can eeeeease on the power alot smoother, you get a couple of clunks and thats it...The other noise before i started was me turning the crank, the chain was rubbing on the pole the camera was attached to hence why it was so loud

enoob...when i was young and carefree we had shots at the road side bins next to the bus stopps with our emoties
amazing how many we got in ... I have had a chat with GWhy about the wiring of the hall sensors he has also been very very helpful, between you and him i think i'll nail this... :: fingers crossed:: you best be on MSN in a few weeks anywayz so i can screamz at you "HOW THE frock THESE THINGS WORK!!!!" hehee I shall do a video up when shes painted and add the before and afters like you suggested oh hehe and the shot of the pile of tubing and finberglass it was made of LoL

hehee TPA from what i have seen most* North Americans use frock motors, they wont be passing bugger all
too many hills here for them

KiM

*enoob has not one but TWO 1500watt cyclones coming for his ride and he ain't messing with no poxy
cyclone 35amp controller either no sireeee 200 amp Kelly !!! YEAH BABEEEE...

 

[Bobocop]

Hey Kim
have you compared the info from your trike ?, like speed etc.
because from that video (above) that doesn't look anywhere as fast or picks up speed as fast as your brushed 1000 watt motor on your trike.
Maybe it's just the camera position, or it could just be me

 

[AussieJester]

Or is it just me ?

Just you...as i said first half of the video is at half throttle... pisses all over the trike for acceleration about the same top speed though
at the moment.

KiM

 

[Bobocop]

Or is it just me ?

Just you...as i said first half of the video is at half throttle... pisses all over the trike for acceleration about the same top speed though
at the moment.

KiM

So are you saying that this bike at half throttle is the same as the trike at full ?

 

[Alaskavan]

Great to see her rolling Kim. At what speed does the "stuttering" calm down? Having followed this thread, I'm starting to jones about converting my trike. I (usually) pedal up to about 18mph before I let the gas take over entirely (for those that don't know, I presently run a gas powered tadpole), so I might not be as troubled by a jittery take-off. Also, almost all my miles are on a highway with no intersections, so I don't experience low speeds often (heck, I only use the brakes a couple of times a day).

 

[AussieJester]

Great to see her rolling Kim. At what speed does the "stuttering" calm down?

About walking speed or slower...basically soon as the motor has spun over a few times gets in sync its right to go, you wont have
ANY issues using it like you want to buddy, would be a nice addition to your ride, you could use
it for both cruising and to boost acceleration, couple of kicks of the cranks let the lecky rip
to you get to ICE speed and then cruise on sweet sweet gasoliiiine

Cheers mate...howz things over at motoredbikes.com hehe

KiM

p.s i went for a fang early this afternoon glorious weather today about 28 degrees overcast cool breeze
maxed out 5500watt 117amp motor & ESC were the coolest its ever been bout as hot as a piece of toast, obviously the 30 plus
weather has had a HUUUGE effect on cooling of the ESC and motor
The rear wheel issue is now a thing of the past, the problem i envisage was the aluminium
component of the chain tensioners, they weren't 'seating' completely down on the rear of the dropouts, once they or it (only the right
side is moving) is seated the wheel stays put...Meant BIG heandfuls of throttle...hehe well.'A'.. the CRACK CLUNK CREAK
of the internal hub happened sounded like it was going to snap there and then, you boyz with these 3 speed SRAMs your pinning your
hopes on might be in for a sad surprise me thinks... Luke...you will blow one in about 3 minutes i think with those dual 130kv
Turnigys. Sounds like the pawls are slipping...dunno sounds freakin horrible. Sooner my eno gets here the better.

 

[boostjuice]

The rear wheel issue is now a thing of the past, the problem i envisage was the aluminium
component of the chain tensioners, they weren't 'seating' completely down on the rear of the dropouts, once they or it (only the right
side is moving) is seated the wheel stays put...Meant BIG heandfuls of throttle...hehe well.'A'.. the CRACK CLUNK CREAK
of the internal hub happened sounded like it was going to snap there and then, you boyz with these 3 speed SRAMs your pinning your
hopes on might be in for a sad surprise me thinks... Luke...you will blow one in about 3 minutes i think with those dual 130kv
Turnigys. Sounds like the pawls are slipping...dunno sounds freakin horrible. Sooner my eno gets here the better.

Could you please get some top speed measurements - on flat ground - for all 3 gears before it breaks? We'd love to know what speeds you max out on for your particular gear ratios your running with this motor

It's a shame if these Sturmey Archer 3 speeds can't take decent power. Once you go single speed, your going to have to tune to a ratio that is a compromise between top speed and efficient hill climbing ability. With the hills you have around your neighbourhood i envisage top speed is going to suffer.......

 

[AussieJester]

It's a shame if these Sturmey Archer 3 speeds can't take decent power. Once you go single speed, your going to have to tune to a ratio that is a compromise between top speed and efficient hill climbing ability. With the hills you have around your neighbourhood i envisage top speed is going to suffer.......

Indeed i will..in 2nd gear anyways...Gears are no longer connected it is fixed in 2nd gear permantly i have to pick up 2 batteries for my wireless speedo was meant to do it today :-S

2nd gear is 1:1 so whatever speed i get in that will be the top speed for when i gotto the eno setup, on paper thats ~50-55km/hr

I have only ridden it (aside from Matt.P's initial ride) in 2nd gear it is plenty fast and accelerates up all the hills i have been up thus far... Around 3/4 throttle feels to be the sweet spot when cruising though, no hill slows it down in that gear either pulls nicely over anything.

KiM

EDIT: bere in mind as part of the "deal" struck with Luke i am going to 66v so any speeds i get now will be improved when i up the voltage, this won't happen though until mr GGoodrum releases his next lvc/parallel/bms boards......Luke has arranged with Burtie also to send me one of his hall mounts so i will DEFINATELY have a working unit now BiG THANKYOU to Burtie and Luke for arranging this

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Americans probably drive on the right because they copied the French, who, some have claimed, were the instigators of this habit during the Napoleonic era. There's a story that just after the French revolution people switched to walking and riding on the right, to show that they weren't carrying swords (a sword was seen as a weapon used by the gentry, not ordinary people). Previously, walking and riding on the left was normal as, if you wore a sword and were right handed, it allowed you to draw it freely in the event of an oncoming threat.

Kim is, like myself across the other side of the planet, a loyal subject of Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II, so follows the drive on the left traffic rule that the UK and the majority of her Commonwealth countries use (Canada being the notable exception, as it switched rules many years ago to make border crossings with the US easier).

Jeremy

PS: Sorry if you're really a republican at heart, Kim, I'm just teasing our cousins from the former colonies............