Which Crystalyte motor I hawe

Juwe

1 mW
Joined
Aug 5, 2017
Messages
12
Hello, I bought motor some time ago and now I want to get more information about it.
Stator width is 42,5mm and magnets it's about 50mm.
It look like as 5304 but I just want to make sure.
If anyone have some information how to look for it I will be glad.
 
You'll have to attach good clear pictures of the motor for us to help.

Or if you don't want to upload pictures of your own motor for us to help you, you can look thru the various threads here with "5304" in them and see if their pictures match what you have, to verify it on your own.
by topic title/topic
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=5304&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sk=t&sd=d&sr=topics&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

by post/topic
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=5304&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=topics&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

by post/post
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=5304&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=-1&t=0&submit=Search

As for which winding it is, that might be written on the stator somewhere, or on a sticker on the outside.

If it isn't, you'd have to do testing to find out. You can use the http://ebikes.ca/simulator to see what the unloaded speed of each version (winding) of the 530x motor should be at a specific voltage, then reproduce those conditions on your motor and see what speed you get. The one that comes closest to matching would be the version you have.
 
If your measure of the stator width is right, there were only 2 motor series made by Crystalyte with 42.5 mm stator width: the small 400 series, and the big X5400 series. They are easy to identify, the 2nd being about twice the weight of the first.

The more recent TC 40 series have a stator almost the same width, but the magnets being straight can't be 50mm like the oblique magnets of the older series.
 
Thanks for help, I took pictures when I came home.
The controller that came with it is 48-72v 20a so in any case I can go on 72v and 50a controller?
 
Juwe said:
Thanks for help, I took pictures when I came home.
Please attach them to your reply so we can see them. If you're having trouble doing it, see the sticky global thread called Adding Pictures at the top of each forum thread list; it has a number of options on how to do it.


The controller that came with it is 48-72v 20a so in any case I can go on 72v and 50a controller?
Can't answer that until we know more about what motor it actually is. Also on your intended usage, because if you overpower a motor hard enough continuously you'll destroy it, while if you just do it intermittently it might be fine.

You should post the entire intended project and what you need it to do, so we can help you figure out what might work and what might not.
 
If the motor has a screw thread on both sides, sounds like an old 5300 series. 5303, 4 or 5.

Pictures. snap a shot, put it into windows paint, make it small enough to insert, ( about 6 inches by 6 inches on your screen) and click on the upload attachment button below the type in the text window.
 
Since the OP had measured the stator width at 42.5mm , I presume it could not be one of the X 53 series for they were 33mm. That is if he really measured the stator of course, and not the winding coil. :wink:

The weight alone is enough to tell. The 400 series are about 12 lbs, the 54 series about 33 lbs.
 
I measured the stator width, it is 42,5mm te windigs are about 50mm.
On the pictures I have just outside if needed then I tear it down again and look inside to see if stator has any number :)

Thanks for help guys!
 

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400 series for sure. FWIW,, occasionally somebody is looking for a really quiet motor, and you have it, one of the quietest motors ever produced. a recent thread in fact, about that.

Could be worth top dollar, (like cost of a new motor) to somebody.

With only 1500w, your speed is likely limited by wattage, more than by winding x voltage. So its a bit hard to tell if your motor is 406 or 408.

At 48v,, 1000w, your speed would give us a very good guess as to the wind. 406 would be at least 30 mph, 408 closer to 27 mph.
 
Which controller did you Buy, and What are you using for a Battery pack
I too have the old 400 series clytes purchased in July of 2003 (3 of them)

1 came from wilderness energy, and it's identical to the (2) dual speed Brushless kits I bought from Kenny
Red Blue and yellow phase wires
 
My guess it is a 406, and it would go faster if you up the Amps. That motor can't take very high power though, because it is too small to shed the heat. I woudn't be afaid to feed it short bursts of 5000w in acceleration, but the average power should keep around 1000w unless you install a thermistor and monitor heat.
 
Donny G said:
Which controller did you Buy, and What are you using for a Battery pack
I too have the old 400 series clytes purchased in July of 2003 (3 of them)

1 came from wilderness energy, and it's identical to the (2) dual speed Brushless kits I bought from Kenny
Red Blue and yellow phase wires

Original is some small crystalyte 48-72v 20a, and overheating on 72v when I go up in the hill, but motor it's just don't get warm at all.
Now I order some programmable 31-90v 50a controller just to see how much it can take, and to test another motors as well.
Battery is liion 20s6p...

MadRhino said:
My guess it is a 406, and it would go faster if you up the Amps. That motor can't take very high power though, because it is too small to shed the heat. I woudn't be afaid to feed it short bursts of 5000w in acceleration, but the average power should keep around 1000w unless you install a thermistor and monitor heat.

Ok thanks for infos I will try and then tell how it is go!
 
Pretty much that motor is identical in what it can do with the larger diameter, but same rated wattage motors.

Its a 500w rated motor, so yeah, 5000w is pushing it way too hard. It will take 2000w max watts for long durations fine, 48v 40 amps will get you the wattage to overcome wind resistance and get to the motors max rpm under load.

If it maxes out at about 30 mph, then it will cruise on 1000w, and it can do that all day. But the 2000w bursts at every stop light won't faze it, or it will be able to run at max power up a long hill fine, as long as it has enough power to keep rolling above 15 mph.

That would be ideal.. but you have a 72v battery. limit it to about 30 amps, also around 2000w. Your max speed will be higher, and cruise wattage more like 1500. But the motor can still handle that, if you just take a bit of care about overheating it on a long hill, or many starts and stops.

A very crude temp sensor attached to the axle, tucked under the nut in the dropout, can help you tell when your motor temps are rising too fast to keep riding that way. But you could ride that motor hard as hell for 700 watt hours, half your battery. So you could just ride like a mad man for the first 10 ah, then do a long slower (still 25-30 mph) cruise to cool er down.

Ventilate the cover, if you want to really push it hard, then you can just stop briefly, take a sniff, and know when to stop riding so fast. Toasty varnish, all ok, that burning smell, cool it off.

BTW,, if that controller is really overheating, then its because you are running it on the wrong phase order. It should get hot, but not overheat. Wrong order, one phase is pushing backwards, the other two forwards.
 
dogman dan said:
Pretty much that motor is identical in what it can do with the larger diameter, but same rated wattage motors.

Its a 500w rated motor, so yeah, 5000w is pushing it way too hard. It will take 2000w max watts for long durations fine, 48v 40 amps will get you the wattage to overcome wind resistance and get to the motors max rpm under load.

If it maxes out at about 30 mph, then it will cruise on 1000w, and it can do that all day. But the 2000w bursts at every stop light won't faze it, or it will be able to run at max power up a long hill fine, as long as it has enough power to keep rolling above 15 mph.

That would be ideal.. but you have a 72v battery. limit it to about 30 amps, also around 2000w. Your max speed will be higher, and cruise wattage more like 1500. But the motor can still handle that, if you just take a bit of care about overheating it on a long hill, or many starts and stops.

A very crude temp sensor attached to the axle, tucked under the nut in the dropout, can help you tell when your motor temps are rising too fast to keep riding that way. But you could ride that motor hard as hell for 700 watt hours, half your battery. So you could just ride like a mad man for the first 10 ah, then do a long slower (still 25-30 mph) cruise to cool er down.

Ventilate the cover, if you want to really push it hard, then you can just stop briefly, take a sniff, and know when to stop riding so fast. Toasty varnish, all ok, that burning smell, cool it off.

BTW,, if that controller is really overheating, then its because you are running it on the wrong phase order. It should get hot, but not overheat. Wrong order, one phase is pushing backwards, the other two forwards.

Thank you for infos...
I think it is just too small it has just 6 fets, and it is old too.
 
That is a lot of power for that small a controller. Maybe it just always ran very hot. If the phase order was wrong, you'd likely notice a big loss of power and speed, or chattery when running. Just threw it out there because it is a possibility.
 
I get that controller and I just can't find right phase wires. I try it with all 36 combinations and just on one get some movement forward with a lot of noise and vibrations.
the motor runs smoothly on old controller :(
It is anything that I can do with measurement?
 
My guess is that you have a bad connection somewhere.

Normally you would find 3 possible combinations that are making the motor run forward, and 3 that are making it run backward. Check if you have a 5v signal on the red hall, and make sure red and black hall are properely connected between controller and motor. Then fit aligator clips on the 3 phase and 3 halls of the controller, that is plugged on corresponding battery and only throttle plugged as control (tested). Start with matching colours, all phases and halls. Give only little throttle (a third of the course max). Do a simple elimination procedure: every time you swap 2 phase colours, try every different hall combinations. You should find a combination that makes the motor spin smoothly (back or forth) pretty soon. If it does spin backward, swap 2 phase and try every hall combinations.
 
If the old controller had a sensorless mode, then it might've worked perfectly even if there is a bad connection in the halls or a bad hall sensor.

Then if the new one does not have a sensorless mode, it wouldn't work in the same conditions.

You can test the hall sensors in the motor (and ohter things) via the documents here:
http://www.ebikes.ca/learn/troubleshooting.html
 
It is working fine but I can't get info how much amps it uses because the program of controller shows me just %. And I need to give thicker wires in the rotor so I open up motor one more time.
Here are some more pictures of the rotor.
 

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This is the stator, the rotor is the part that turns around it.

The axle channel doesn't let you fit much bigger wires, and the motor can't take much current anyway. Use the bigger wire that you can fit in the channel, but don't go digging in the axle to make the channel larger. The axle steel is not very hard and you'd be making it weaker. Yet, you could use bigger wires out of the motor, cutting off some length of the small motor wire harness to lower its resistance. Weld bigger wire from motor to controller and use better connectors.
 
If you're not using the halls you could leave the wires for those out and fit slightly larger wires in for phases.

MadRhino said:
The axle steel is not very hard and you'd be making it weaker.
Yeah, and even on the X5304 series it can break on the skinnier part:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=67833&start=525#p1310982
file.php


Not that I'm not abusing it well beyond it's design intent. ;)


(I also started a repair for it that doesn't involve a thin threaded axle since I use clamping dropouts, but I damaged the windings somehow while working on that)
file.php

hoping to fix the windings and test my axle fix at some point.
 
Juwe said:
It is working fine
Then what did you do specifically to fix the problem you had here? :
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=89888#p1313143
Juwe said:
I get that controller and I just can't find right phase wires. I try it with all 36 combinations and just on one get some movement forward with a lot of noise and vibrations.
the motor runs smoothly on old controller :(
It is anything that I can do with measurement?
 
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