A2B Octive/Metro purchase?

Hi all,
I found an advertiser with 2- 2012 versions of this bike about 150 miles away. They look to be in very good shape, 1-blk, 1-slvr, but neither has any battery any more. The seller wants $500 for the pair. I'm a pretty handy person and from just a short time reading on this forum it seems there were folks customizing and modifying these ebikes at one time. Seems they sold a lot of them b-4 they went under, even sold to some to rental fleets.
At this point in time are they still worth fooling with though? I'm totally new to this. I'm a road cyclists that wants an ebike to play on. If I went to look at them any red flags I should look for?

Seems like all I need to do is buy 48 vt battery packs and adapt the battery's pigtails to the bike's 2nd rear connection and mount the battery. I see there are a lot of mods that have been made over the years. Like I could do projects as long as the funds last.
Is this a good frame to take on the journey to owning a decent ebike?

A2B is all proprietary, meaning you need their battery for the system to work. You cant just put on any battery you wish, unless its a simple hack but doubtful thats the case. Not worth the money to spend on A2B unless you score a good deal and build it up DIY with ebike kit from YESCOMUSA, Leafmotor, Leafbike, EM3EV, EBIKES.CA or any number of other locations.


https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=104530&p=1530046&hilit=a2b+proprietary#p1530046
Amberwolf

the a2b series are proprietary stuff (including the battery electronics), so if any part of it fails you wind up hacking it or replacing all the electrics to get it going again.

they're not bad bikes, just that i don't think there's really anywhere to get any new electric parts.

there are several threads about various versions of a2b bikes, including some complete electrics replacements.

Click to expand...

I own and run an early A2B Metro - and as far as I am aware, almost any 36v-55v battery pack can easily be 'hacked-in' to replace the standard rear-pack configuration, yes.

Obviously, replacing the forward in-frame battery can be more difficult, due to it's awkward 'banana' shape etc.

I have successfully replaced *both with hobbyist Li-Po packs & an external smart-charger - not particularly easy on the frame pack, but I am very happy with the results now.

These are comparitively heavy, but sturdy, reliable and very smooth & comfortable bikes to ride.
I have followed 'fetchers' excellent & intuitive mods here to alter/improve the front fork castor-angle and fit an air-spring at the rear (softer & therefore helps prevent the rear frame-arm cracking glitch) etc.
You *may want to upgrade the disc brakes at some point too?

Only other remaining glitch on my setup is the tendency of the thermo cut-out in the standard 'Ultramotor' unit to cut power on hot days etc, but I will deal with that if/when ever the motor has to come out of the wheel.

My advice: 'Go for it - and have some fun!' - and also have a 'spare' bike too, by the sounds of it!

Enjoy!

If it's a second gen metro you will lose battery meter on the display. Plus maximum voltage for the stock controller is 50v. Any higher the throttle goes unresponsive.

Hello E-Glider, can I ask what lipo's you've used for the frame? I managed to jam 18s (6x6s) 11.9ah in back battery. I would like some lipo's in the frame as well. Did you keep the black bottom packet with the relays?

Thanks for the replies guys. I did read the post on turning the front fork around and thought that seemed worthwhile so thanks for the confirmation. And thanks for the air spring in the rear idea as well.

I've further learned that the seller cut the cells out of the battery packs but he saved the empty "packs". Is the BMS housed in the main battery pack? I wonder if he shorted/destroyed it taking the cells out?

If this works out, it there a way to over-ride the 20 mph limit or re-tune it to 28 mph?

If I put in a 48v battery, what speed increase could be expected out of it, if any?

Hello, each battery has it's own bms, if he has gutted it, I bet there are gone to. You won't be able to reuse them anyway if you plan on increasing voltage. A 48v battery is almost 54.6 hot of charge, gen 2 will not like it. 28mph+ will probably require a external controller. A 12S will work if you plan on keeping the stock controller. You should be able to reach 24-28 mph

It seems I keep learning more about these. The bikes are the gen 1 versions from Ultra Motor. So it seems they need to stay at 36v if the BMS units are good and 20 mph is what they will remain. eBikemarketplace told me they have a BMS that will work if the originals are toast or missing. I'm not wanting to rebuild the whole thing right away.
What is a 12S ?

12S is series, 12 cells in series for Lithium Ion. 3.7Vx12S=44.4V nominal, but 4.2Vx12=50.4V off the charger. 13S is nominal 48V but 54.6V off the charger (4.2Vx14). Some builders of battery packs go 14S which they market as 52V to make it look more powerful then 48V. Its like the tool wars, 14.4V vs 12V drills. Remember there are two aspects, the battery and the charger. If you have a 1A charger juicing up a 10Ah battery, its going to take a long ass time to get juiced up 100%. Batteries have a C-rate for discharge and charge. That 1A charge, will take 10hrs for 10Ah.

I like 36V because I cant have a memory lapse and go 60 in speed, I like having the speed limit of the throttle at 36V. Human nature is to give it more throttle. My kind of riding ebike is just cruising, I am too old to go crazy on speed. 30kph(20mph) is fine, but an extra twist of the throttle and go 40kph is fine for the rare occasion I want to go wide open throttle on a residential street, when its safe to do so. Otherwise you will see me cruising around at sane speeds for pathways. Sometimes on cruise control behind some Lycra.

Hello 'Audisport09'

Congrats on converting your rear pack!

For the frame pack I used x4 of these:
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/multistar-high-capacity-6s-10000mah-multi-rotor-lipo-pack.html?___store=en_us
Wired switchable series/parallel to give 45v running/22.2v charging.
They just fitted the frame end to end.
I kept, but moved the relay pack to fit snuggly in/at the rear of the bike-stand mounting bracket instead! This allowed me to also retain the black plastic frame-end cap to instead house a series/parallel relay & switch and also cell-balancing ports & charge input socket!

Quite bit of fairly extreme 'micro-surgery' involved, but one of my main aims was to at least retain close to 'original' appearance of the bike, despite the upgrade.
I was pleased that it ended up not so easy for the (untrained) eye.. ..to 'spot the difference'!

(Mine is Gen 1, so squeezed x4 of these into the standard rear-case, with a similar wiring configuration to the frame packs:
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/zippy-compact-5800mah-7s-25c-lipo-pack-xt90.html
Puts out around 55v.. and all OK.)

Ouch.. I've just re-checked @ 'hobbyking' and neither of these units appear to be in stock there any longer.
I selected by voltage, but also mainly by size.. so if you are keeen, you may find an 'equivalent' available elsewhere?

Hope this helps a bit anyway!

2012 GEN 1...? that can't be right surely. Any pictures? Do they have a speed display? 500 for 2 metro, is a really bargain. There are rare over him, they sale for quite a bit. Anyway if they are gen 1 you will have no problems boosting them up to 52v if you want.

E-Glider wow that is some seriously advanced wiring. Sorry I've got like a million question now. ''Wired switchable series/parallel'' Never heard off that. Got some reading to do. So your saying that you don't have to remove the battery packs for charging/balancing? Which is one reason why I have delayed trying to put lipos in the frame, it's bad enough having to disconnect everything in the rear battery. Could I please trouble you for some close pictures of these ports and switches.

Markz: so if I had the packs rebuilt as 12s then I'd have 44.4v which the controller can handle? What kind of speed increase might this yield?
Audisport09: Here's a pics of them from the seller's advert. No integral lights, key on the seat tube; aren't these indications of Gen 1? I think the seller might be referring to the year he bought them, not the model year. I'm still trying to understand if increasing the voltage will increase the speed? I understand the controller is in the hub-motor so I don't want to fry it. I haven't seen them in person as he's 2 hours away from me. He's asking $1500 but agreed to the reduction in a phone call.

Oh yes, you are correct, they are gen 1. Love the silver one, best colour. Lol you managed to knock of 1k off the asking price!! I need to up my negotiation skills. Pity about the rear packs, are they included? Increasing the voltage will definitely increase the top speed. Larger chain ring also helps, I have a 56t. Acceleration however will remain pretty much the same due to the stock controller soft start. Forget about the 12s mate, might as well go 14s or higher if funds will allow. Have a read of this, if you haven't already. https://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=69145

No rear #2 batteries are not available. I suppose he never bought them. Thanks for the link, good read for me. I've read the hub can be taken apart but sounds like it's a project to change to an external controller, however the one shown above is very nicely done. I could also play with the chain ring size as you suggest.

No rear #2 batteries are not available. I suppose he never bought them. Thanks for the link, good read for me. I've read the hub can be taken apart but sounds like it's a project to change to an external controller, however the one shown above is very nicely done. I could also play with the chain ring size as you suggest.

Hi 'Audisport09',

That's right, all the batteries stay firmly in place for balancing/charging.

So, in the fame there are x4 22v packs = x2 pairs, each wired in parallel.
These pairs are in turn held in parallel for charging (@ 22v) but switched to series for running (@ 45v).

I used the 'Normally Closed' contacts of 40A (24v) relays for series (running) connection and powered the relays (for both frame & rear packs), via this same key-switch, to hold them in parallel whilst charging. I also fitted a green LED to give me a visual 'OK to charge' cue - otherwise some very vapourised copper results!

All the balance leads also remain in parallel and obviously, are only ever plugged into charger whilst the packs are held in parallel (charging) mode.

The charger:
https://www.skyrc.com/Charger/D400_Charger
is capable of charging two different voltage packs at the same time (ie both frame & rear, if nec).

I like to use the higher voltage rear pack as an 'electronic top-gear', by switching the standard A2B keyswitch, whist riding.

Hope that's clear(ish)!

I'll upload some pix for you here as requested, and you'll likely suss it all out further from there.
Rear pack shots were taken 'work-in-progress'.. but also fitted a 5v USB port & lighting power-outlet socket there, for ease of disassembly etc if/when nec.
~ Scuse the squiggly proto-wiring sketch too please - (ended up using x2 DB9 balancing connectors & separate higher-current charge input ports, but you get the general idea!).

These are shit bikes in many ways including major flaws in the frame... Do yourself a favour and steer clear. Plus any a2b parts are pretty much non existent. They handle like crap at speed. lots of annoying intracies

kdog said:

These are shit bikes in many ways including major flaws in the frame... Do yourself a favour and steer clear. Plus any a2b parts are pretty much non existent. They handle like crap at speed. lots of annoying intracies

Click to expand...

Each to their own Eh!
Personally, I really like them for their super-comfortable riding position.
Altering front forks/rear shocker & fitting moped tyres etc can transform the handling & frame-reliability characteristics too.
As one of, if not THE first fully 'bottom-up' designed electric bikes, they are already 'Classics' in their own right.. and deserve to be.

Jeez, steer clear is a little bit strong. Yes out of the box, they may not be the best bike in the world, OP said he is looking for a project bike...I'm a roadie as well, the metro is a really nice change of pace, I ride it faster than my road bike thats for sure. Each to their own indeed. Although on second thought, if they have no batteries 1500 has a little steep. Were you looking to buy both for yourself and someone else?

E-Glider, thank you, pictures paint a thousand words. I'm a newbie to lipos but I think I understand now. Didn't know you could palleral balance leads like that. In the event of a cell death, an issue could arise. Maybe some sort of 24 pin connector would be better? I have a 12s charger so I don't think I would need a relay in that setup. But 12s isn't enough I only do short rides. Shame about the multistar. So I need 3 high cap lipo's in series with a relay on the third and 3 ports for balance? If I could find 2 high capacity 10s it would make wiring so much easier. Trouble is the highest on hobby king is only 4.5amh.

No worries Audisport09 - a pleasure to share!
Yes.. you clearly have the general 'picture' now.

Regarding paralleling balance leads, my thoughts at the time were twofold:
1). Available space was getting very tight in there.. literally down to millimeters!
2). Factory Li-po battery-batch matching-standards are now chemically really very high (even in China - and owing largely to the 'exploding laptop/phone' era!).
So I concluded that if any one of the x4 cells being parallel-balanced really started to collapse, I would still receive an adequate indication from the charger-monitoring of this - and abiding by the golden rule to never walk away whilst your Li-po's are charging, thus also pre-empt/avoid any terminally serious issue!
For similar reasons, I also never 'rapid-charge' the cells and also always balance-charge - and they have remained stoically within .01v of each other.
A 'compromise' of sorts yes, but I'm very happy & satisfied with it - so far.
Range/performance also remain good.

Maybe you could try contacting Turnigy/Zippy/Multistar etc directly, regarding their present range/catalogue of available high capacity Li-po packs?

Those perfectly (A2B frame) sized Multistars were on 'special' at Hobbyking at the time, so I just went for it - & adapted everything else to suit!

Good luck, continue to enjoy your A2B ~ & please let us know how you go anyway.

If you need parts there is one for sale local to me for a completely not unreasonable sum of $2500.

/s

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/rds/for/d/surrey-northeast-a2b-metro-electric/7080126471.html

Even less 'unreasonable' might be (one) these?:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/A2B-Metro-Elec ... SwKz5d88ud

x2 brand new Gen 2 A2B's at half original price paid.. AND apparently willing to sell *rear battery pack(s?) separately*.
This is rare.
Texas.

Apologies.. complete URL link to above:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/A2B-Metro-Electric-Bikes-Near-Katy-TX/333468118066?hash=item4da43fac32:gJgAAOSwKz5d88ud

I saw one years ago, out in the wild locked up at a bike rack.
It stood out, not my style.... to each their own.

If it was cheap then its a consideration. But for myself, I would never buy one because it looks different and sticks out. I want a bicycle that blends in. Even though I got a black duct taped battery in the triangle and wires in a neat mess, get no issues. More stealthy would be a next step. Hiding the battery in the rear pannier bag, which hides the motor but I have no reason to. Now if I was in NYC or something then by all means, 100% stealth!

HK12K: Do you really think the $2500 asking is fair for a bike that needs work? Seems more like a $500 maybe less item to me. Even the one's in TX seems over-priced at $1500. They are 7-10 years old now, likely need new $550-$700 battery re-builds and tires could be rotting by now too. I just don't see them being so good a product that they are worth a premium above fair value for their age no mater what they cost new. I think they are worth about $750-$1000 in good condition and working order.

For sure I wouldn't pay too much for a used one. There are lots of them out there if you look long enough. Ones with a dead battery should be very inexpensive as there is no source for replacement batteries. Even when batteries were available, they were something like $800.

I found if you replace the tires with ones that have a "normal" round profile, the fork reversal mod is really not needed. The stock tires have this sharp edge that results in dangerous handling at high lean angles.

20mph is about the fastest you can go and still have some pedal input in top gear.