Grinding noise in hub motor

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Cyclomania

10 kW
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In one of my builds I have this weird grinding noise. The same as in this video. It only arises at the start when I throttle hard or go up a steep hill.


Any idea what the issue is when this particular grinding noise arises?
 
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eee291 said:
Phase wires are the 3 thick ones, and they are needed to run the motor, they are fine since it still works in sensorless mode.
The issue seems to be only with the sensors.

Of course, it's "easy" to just replace the motor. It's your call.
I've opened over a dozen hub motors, it's not that bad unless it has no removable side cover.
Click to expand...
What should I look for. Thinking about doing it tonight maybe.
 
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You can get good quality Honeywell ss41 ones from Digikey or Mouser.
Chinese ones from Amazon eBay or AliExpress are ok as well, since most hub motors come with the cheap clone ones.
Make sure that they are Bipolar and not linear, linear are used for throttle signal.
This should help point you in the right direction.
 
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eee291 said:
You can get good quality Honeywell ss41 ones from Digikey or Mouser.
Chinese ones from Amazon eBay or AliExpress are ok as well, since most hub motors come with the cheap clone ones.
Make sure that they are Bipolar and not linear, linear are used for throttle signal.
This should help point you in the right direction.
Click to expand...
Hm the link does not work for me. Do you have another one? I think the motor is 250watts.
 
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Also, do I have to remove the sprocket before I open the motor? I have done this once before but cannot remember if I kept the sprocket in place or if I removed it before I opened the motor with my Impact drill.
 
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Cyclomania said:
How do you know it is ss41?
Click to expand...
These are the correct ones, just read my previous posts explaining what to look for.
I don't know if I would go with AliExpress simply because it would take weeks for the package to arrive.

Cyclomania said:
Also, do I have to remove the sprocket before I open the motor?
Click to expand...
The halls are usually on the side where wires enter, I have no clue if the same applies for geared hub motors.
 
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eee291 said:
These are the correct ones, just read my previous posts explaining what to look for.
I don't know if I would go with AliExpress simply because it would take weeks for the package to arrive.


The halls are usually on the side where wires enter, I have no clue if the same applies for geared hub motors.
Click to expand...
I managed to open your link now. But found a lot of different ones. Are these te correct type here below?


Not sure what is looks like in there. Maybe these are the only ones I need? These ones looking like metal sticks?
 
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eee291 said:
yes
Click to expand...
Cheapest and fastest shipping I could find were these from Temu. But the name is not SS41. Any idea if they would do?

20 Stk A3144E A3144 3144 Hall Effect Sensor 3Pins Magnetisk - Temu Norway

Finn 20 Stk A3144E A3144 3144 Hall Effect Sensor 3Pins Magnetisk Detektor For Arduino på Temu, en del av vår nyeste Næringsliv, industri og vitenskap klar til å handle online i dag. Høy kvalitet og rimelig
www.temu.com www.temu.com

Also, it says "24 volts" on both the amazon one and this one. But regardless it would work?
 
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24v is the max voltage. Also I am not clicking on any temu links. If it doesn't say that it works for brushless motor or bipolar then it doesn't work.

Also I'm tired of the constant will this work? questions. Look up how to replace and where to find hall sensors if my answers aren't good enough.
 
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I have a motor that is making a grinding weird noise when driven. I got input from Endless sphere that this could be because of some non working hall sensors inside. But it is still a mystery what the problem might be.

I do have a controller that works without hall sensors as well. But anyway I got input that it might be smart to open it up.

So here are two videos below of the motor’s insides. First one is a bit general and shows what I have found inside. Second one is a close up of the hall sensor/chip.

To me it looks like this motor do not even have hall sensors there(?). So if someone could explain how this could be the case please do. I thought all motors had them perhaps ?

I also watched Grin's video among others about turning the wheel backwards and seeing the lights blink from right to left. I did this just to make sure my hall sensors are bust before opening my motor.
I got no signal at all of which I guess is because I don’t have any hall sensors?

I have bought some ss41 halls if needed. Not sure if the best thing would be to solder on these there and make a new connection. Or if the grinding noise might come from some other problem inside the motor?
To me the gears and motor looks fine overall. But I am no expert at these insides of the motor.

streamable.com

Watch unnamed | Streamable

Watch "unnamed" on Streamable.
streamable.com

streamable.com

Watch unnamed | Streamable

Watch "unnamed" on Streamable.
streamable.com
 
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So here are two videos below of the motor’s insides. First one is a bit general and shows what I have found inside. Second one is a close up of the hall sensor/chip.

To me it looks like this motor do not even have hall sensors there(?). So if someone could explain how this could be the case please do. I thought all motors had them perhaps ?

I also watched Grin's video among others about turning the wheel backwards and seeing the lights blink from right to left. I did this just to make sure my hall sensors are bust before opening my motor.
I got no signal at all of which I guess is because I don’t have any hall sensors?

I have bought some ss41 halls if needed. Not sure if the best thing would be to solder on these there and make a new connection. Or if the grinding noise might come from some other problem inside the motor?
To me the gears and motor looks fine overall. But I am no expert at these insides of the motor.

www.veed.io

sinokilovipp33's Video - Apr 6, 2024 - VEED - Online Video Editor - Video Editing Made Simple

www.veed.io www.veed.io

www.veed.io

sinokilovipp33's Video - Apr 6, 2024 - VEED - Online Video Editor - Video Editing Made Simple

www.veed.io www.veed.io
 
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The video is shakey, a photograph would be better. It looks like the hall sensors have been cut off. Did you buy this motor new or has it had a previous owner?
 
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AGS said:
The video is shakey, a photograph would be better. It looks like the hall sensors have been cut off. Did you buy this motor new or has it had a previous owner?
Click to expand...
It had a previous owner. Yeah my camera in the phone is a bit bad.

Here is another one. Hopefully a bit easier to see what is going on. My phone needs changing I know it is bad. But hopefully this one is a bit clearer:

www.veed.io

sinokilovipp33's Video - Apr 6, 2024 - VEED - Online Video Editor - Video Editing Made Simple

www.veed.io www.veed.io
 
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Hi Cyclomania,
It appears to me, that motor board can be set up to handle hall sensors, but at this time does not.
A good clue is the numbers of wires coming off the pcb. A sensored BLDC motor will have a total of at least 5 wires going to the controller’s hall sensor plug. You have 3, with the remaining 3 connection terminal points looking pristine.
What I think you might have is one hall sensor on the top side of the board that might be switching with influence from a magnet mounted on the hub section removed and not seen that passes over it for a speed signal. A nice feature for geared motors. This signal would be toggling on the white wire.

For a bit more insight on testing hall sensored BLDC motors with a multi-meter, see this thread…

Testing BLDC motor's Phase Wiring - Hall Sensors and Wiring. - Electricbike.com Ebike Forum

Now the question would be, would it be worth it to install them, adding the wiring and connections needed.
Since you have the hall sensors already, I would probably give it a try… but that’s your call. (No guarantees it will work)
Make sure they are switching as required before putting it all back together. Good tips on bench testing in the thread!
Your controller with self learning capability will be an asset.


Regards,
T.C.
 
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pcb traces or other related components could be damaged even if you replaced the something else, like obviously the hall sensors.
hall sensor wires could be damage
hall angles could be at the wrong angle
 
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For inspiration. :)




J3VEV.jpg
 
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I'm somewhat confused to be honest.
If the motor was running sensorless from the start, was it ever quiet to begin with?
The controllers that I've seen do sensorless sine wave are mostly VESC based.
 
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eee291 said:
I'm somewhat confused to be honest.
If the motor was running sensorless from the start, was it ever quiet to begin with?
The controllers that I've seen do sensorless sine wave are mostly VESC based.
Click to expand...
No not really quiet no. But seems to be nothing wrong with the function except for the grinding noise, which is irritating when riding the bike I have to say.
 
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