2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

[endlessly_ending]

I already posted my results on backwards rolling. If you stop in high-speed mode, it always rolls backwards. If you stop in low-speed mode, most of the time it doesn't rotate backwards, but if you spin the motor in high-speed mode, and then switch back to low-speed mode without putting a load on the motor, it will roll backwards in low-speed mode.
.

just gave it another try in low gear uphill:
When I pull the throttle to zero, there is most every time a single "crackling" sound from the motor, but no problem to roll it backwards then.
Might be, this sound is the clutch "breaking loose" even before I come to a full stop.

 

[docnjoj]

Have you opened the motor and lubricated the gears and clutch?
otherDoc

 

[endlessly_ending]

Have you opened the motor and lubricated the gears and clutch?
otherDoc

I think, it worked like this from teh beginning - so no, I didn't.

Manly because after several 100km there was no need for it and also because I have a spare motor available (the one I did open, just to confirm its all in there what d8veh already has shown pictures of )

On the other hand, I possibly will give the ATF trick a try, once the FOC sine wave controller arrived and has been tested (I don't expect too much of thermal improvenemt though, because the XiongDa is an outrunner design not that well suited for internal cooling in this way)

 

[panurge]

Some start/stop on a steep uphill (well not an unpaved 25-35% one, John, I'm sorry )
Sorry, for the flipped camera...was the only way to hold it, and no time for editing, if not for quickly split the video.
[youtube]UO--hQ-SGaI[/youtube]

XD2speed motor 20" on 20x4 1/4 tires
Lishui controller 36v 15A with KM5S and 6poles PAS
9s 5Ah zippy compact
90Kg total weight
8-15% uphill 500m long
15Kph clinbing speed in low
PAS only at 5/5 level.

translated into a good 700wheel bike should be Amazing.I can do this climb with a good bike, but It is impossible with this one. I'm keen to try the road bike...

Anyway I love the zippy compact 9-10s 5Ah....even a single brick is enough for 10-15km of mixed duty, that's perfect for most of my urban commutes, and they charge faster than regular zippy. I'm charging the single brick at 2C all the time, HK declare 5C max rate. Should be a good stress test for lipos too :wink: how many cycles should I expect with 3C typical load and 2C charge all the time, using 80% of their capacity?

 

[docnjoj]

Hey Jules, thanks for the test. Considering the camera microphones are usually real sensitive, it didn't sound too noisy.That street really sounds like a "bike killer". I'm gunna open mine up (if it ever arrives) and use some synthetic gear grease. I may "break it in" with what they put in it for 100 miles or so, though. I too am interested in oil cooling and ATF. But first it needs to arrive and I have to build the wheel.
otherDoc

 

[panurge]

Lacing it on the 20" rim hasn't been that easy, for me, I mean choosing the spokes....these fat Alpina 2.5mmPG seems to do the job well (for this fat I mean). I've risked to lace them 2crossed only because of the 0 offset between flanges and rim's holes....
I would make them 1 crossed in a normal rim...but the interlace could be an issue...I always makes interlace while lacing wheels, but I see that even some OEMs laces hubmotors 1crossed but not interlaced....mmmh I understand that they cross too close to the flange...but looks not so good to me, when you see some mm at the cross between the spokes.
13g-14g butted quality spokes (i.e. Sapim Strong) are the best spokes IMO to match the XD, in Black or silver..... :wink:

 

[docnjoj]

Yeah I got those Sapims from John Holmes. I'm only going to use 1X since it is what I do and have never had a spoke fail with that pattern. The radial spoking that our DD hubmotors get in a 20" wheel do occasionally fail, especially with 12 ga spokes. I find that the thinner spokes of quality survive much longer on geared motors. Normally I would send the motor and rim to John but with the unstable delivery date I will do it myself, and get the LBS to true it. They don't blink an eye when I bring in a Hub motor wheel for truing. Really great folks.
otherDoc

 

[d8veh]

It's a lot easier to open the motor when new for greasing because the chain pulls on the free-wheel, which turns the side-plate, so tightening it on its thread.

 

[panurge]

Damn...I've not thought about that....and was so obvious
How have you managed to open it then?
Thanks for your useful reports and advices.

 

[docnjoj]

It's a lot easier to open the motor when new for greasing because the chain pulls on the free-wheel, which turns the side-plate, so tightening it on its thread.

Thank you again, d8veh. I would have run it first. Now I will just lace it and then use the wheel/tire for leverage before a test run to open the motor and grease. I wonder if Xiongda reads this stuff and might change their grease strategy? to higher quality material?
otherDoc

 

[spinningmagnets]

Yes, I am certain that Xiongda has read this thread, so I assume they come back on occasion to see any new info that is posted. I track where the clicks come from on electricbike.com, and Xiongda has linked to the article on their "double speed motor" page. The link to this thread is in the article, so they had to have seen it.

 

[docnjoj]

Yes, I am certain that Xiongda has read this thread, so I assume they come back on occasion to see any new info that is posted. I track where the clicks come from on electricbike.com, and Xiongda has linked to the article on their "double speed motor" page. The link to this thread is in the article, so thay had to have seen it.

Cool S/M. I did get an E-mail that they were working on the motors but would be shipping at the end of the week. Something about making some parts stronger. Just my luck to get a re-design in the middle of an order. At least it does show a strong effort on their part to do good Q/C. I suppose I am grateful??????????
otherDoc

 

[docnjoj]

Hmmmm............still waiting for the notice that it was shipped. Anyone else in "delay mode"?
otherDoc

 

[eMax]

Yes still waiting. No further news from them this week.

 

[drsolly]

Still waiting, but I got a notification from DHL to pay £14 tax, so I think it's been shipped and is now in England.

 

[cwah]

Did you just order the motor? Or laced with wheel? And doesn't dhl add £8 service charge?

 

[docnjoj]

Did you just order the motor? Or laced with wheel? And doesn't dhl add £8 service charge?

That is good news drsolly. Not the tax, of course. Hey cwah, I just ordered the motor/controller and bought spokes from John Holmes. Rim is Rhyno-lyte, about 32mm wide. No motor yet though.
otherDoc

 

[cwah]

How much for the spokes for john holmes? Are they good?

 

[docnjoj]

How much for the spokes for john holmes? Are they good?

Sapim butted 13/14. I got 40 of them for $40 plus shipping. I use thinner spokes than many, but have never had one break.
otherDoc

 

[panurge]

Manged to open and regrease the 20" motor.
It has been more difficult compared to the new one, but not that much. Used a proper face pin wrench, tightened to the pin slots with the original axle nut, using a BB cup between 2 big washers as spacers. A long pipe lever in the wrench and wheel in a big vice and it has been like butter....To have a proper pin tool on the vice would be even better...
Otherwise, I've opened The 24" motor, new, using a 220mm brake rotor bolted on, then the rotor clamped in a big vice, and simply unscrewed by hands with the pin wrench and without any lever extension or lock.

The more I use this RD system, the more I feel it is great.
If XD, with their efforts to fix the relatively small bits and details, will get a stable and reliable product offering it with a definitive and properly matched controller-display combo, and even in the 135mm + disc version, for at least 7-8 speed FW, this 2speed motor will be definitively a game changer i its class....

Actually the 24" motor I have is a 137mm version custom threaded, I have a vintage but like new (heavy) 5speed suntour procompe 14-32 that fit perfectly.....the fun is that like this, the wheel is perfectly centered!!!

Then, in September, I would like to try mix a 5 speed body, with 7-8 or even 9 or 10 speed cogs....I have a chest full of freewheels from '50 till today to find out if there is any uncovered compatibility....

It will be laced on a 29"mtb xc rim

 

[docnjoj]

What size pinwrench did you use. I only have one from my angle grinder. It is probably too small. It may be great technology but it is not here! I do kinda get anxious for new toys.
otherDoc
I've only got about 10 freewheels hanging around. I know where 2 or 3 of them are.
Oh duh! Did you use a small pinwrench in the 2 little holes right next to the axle? Less torque than the big screw that d8veh used but probably the way Xiongda planned it.

 

[panurge]

Used an adjustable face pin wrench, with 3mm or so pins I own. that was not useful to be clamped, it is a standard bike tool that at least your LBS has for sure, if not you.
With the motor brand new, you'll need a modest force to unscrew the cover.
The 2 pins holes are 1 inch spaced (1 inch pcd)....the slots are 1/8"
I think they're also managing to upgrade the stock grease, so maybe, after all, with this wait you will gain at least a double develop compared to mines :wink: .
What could make the Lishui+KM5S combo even better, would be to Have the (I think proprietary) cable to access and/or fire up the Lishui settings (especially for PAS and autoshift) and the KM5S with full open menus (as it doesn't appear right now) Maybe the ones that have the motor not shipped yet, could ask XD for the cable at least.

 

[docnjoj]

Thanks panurge for the spanner info. I would settle for a controller that can be simply programmed fron the little screen. However, I would settle for it to be shipped. It would be good if they improved the grease, but don't mind opening things up. My old Bafang used to strip its gears on a regular basis, and I had to change them often. Of course it was an early generation with "peanut butter" gears, and I finally got a steel one to go with the two nylon ones. Of course I was running 54 volts at the time.
otherDoc

 

[panurge]

In theory the Lishui controller could be fully programmable from the KM5S, on mine, the KM5S seems to have a firmware with limited programming access.... The Info I got from XD is that one needs the interface cable, Asks lishui for the changes, and than get from them a file to flash it up....I know nothing about the KM restricted display issue, though.....
When you and the other guys will have your motors delivered, I'm sure a proper controller/display combo or setup, will be found quickly.

How about to try an infineon 25a 6fet with a cable reversing switch? or directly a Grinfineon one coupled with a CA? Anyone knows for controllers that allow backward drive, for trikes or quads, and or used them?

 

[docnjoj]

I just got an Email from Yona and she says they are "working on another combination" and should ship tomorrow. This does sound like grease but I don't know. We shall see. At least Xiongda does communicate and seems to be working on improvement.
otherDoc
I think Ebikekit also has a trike controller that reverses.