999zip999
100 TW
Cheers 
20AH 48V pack using Samsung 25R + Agniusm modules + Generic BMS
- Thread starter www.recumbents.com
- Start date
www.recumbents.com
10 kW
I ran the cables through the Otivia box and then discovered that they were preventing the box from being opened. Oops. Drilled more holes...
After I get the lid of the box mounted I will take it on a nice long ride to test the range and then I'll be able to test the charging. I have a LiPo charger that is set to 49 volts. Charged voltage for the 25R cells is supposed to be 4.2 volts so technically I could charge to 50.4V (12S). If I can get to work and back on a 49V charge then I'll just charge to that voltage because it's easier on the cells. Min voltage on the 25R cells is 2.5V. That would be a cutoff voltage of 30V for the pack. I'm not sure what LVC is on the BMS but I think I have it set for 39V on the controller because I was using it for LiPo. That's very conservative for the 25R cells (3.25V per cell), so I'll reset that to 36V and see how far I get.
Warren
After I get the lid of the box mounted I will take it on a nice long ride to test the range and then I'll be able to test the charging. I have a LiPo charger that is set to 49 volts. Charged voltage for the 25R cells is supposed to be 4.2 volts so technically I could charge to 50.4V (12S). If I can get to work and back on a 49V charge then I'll just charge to that voltage because it's easier on the cells. Min voltage on the 25R cells is 2.5V. That would be a cutoff voltage of 30V for the pack. I'm not sure what LVC is on the BMS but I think I have it set for 39V on the controller because I was using it for LiPo. That's very conservative for the 25R cells (3.25V per cell), so I'll reset that to 36V and see how far I get.
Warren
thundercamel
10 kW
Nice work, and have a good time!
A funny thing on the motor controller that came with my 48v ebike conversion kit, is that it cuts off at 42 volts, which is 3.0v on my 14s pack. My MJ1 cells can also go down to 2.5 volts if I really need to, so when I'm going for a max range bike ride, it cuts off a bit early. Last time it died I went through the settings on the LCD controller that came with the kit, and you can choose if you have a 48v or 36v system. I wasn't sure if the LCD is actually 2-way communication with the controller, but I tried switching it to 36v, and it came back to life for the last few miles home! It's like a reserve valve on a motorcycle tank
I rely on my smart BMS for cell group and pack voltage limits.
A funny thing on the motor controller that came with my 48v ebike conversion kit, is that it cuts off at 42 volts, which is 3.0v on my 14s pack. My MJ1 cells can also go down to 2.5 volts if I really need to, so when I'm going for a max range bike ride, it cuts off a bit early. Last time it died I went through the settings on the LCD controller that came with the kit, and you can choose if you have a 48v or 36v system. I wasn't sure if the LCD is actually 2-way communication with the controller, but I tried switching it to 36v, and it came back to life for the last few miles home! It's like a reserve valve on a motorcycle tank
I rely on my smart BMS for cell group and pack voltage limits.
999zip999
100 TW
I would do a few light cycles then a medium cycle or two for break in. Dod should not be a common desire.
www.recumbents.com
10 kW
Because it's been several years since I rode this bike any distance, and I did a complete rebuild in the meantime, I had to do several rides to shake out any issues. It's now all ready for the commute. I was ready to ride the bike to work for the first time in 5 years or so and realized that I now have a laptop bag that I have to bring to and from work that I didn't have back then. The Otivia box would be fine for shoes and pants and jacket but I need to find a way to transport the laptop bag too.
Warren
Warren
www.recumbents.com
10 kW
Neptronix - Yes, I used the rear triangle from that Mongoose BMX e-bike that was available for a while, and built the rest. It handles great and is very comfortable. There are some Euro and Taiwanese manufacturers that make similar bikes. You can see a list of them by going here: http://recumbents.com/recumbents.asp and choosing "Front & Rear" from the suspension dropdown.
Warren
Warren
Nice. I have seen your site but wasn't aware of the comparison shopping part - very cool.
Spitting image of this steintrike bike, but obviously loads stronger and more comfortable than the stein. ( also, what's up with the mcdonald's paint job, lol )
Spitting image of this steintrike bike, but obviously loads stronger and more comfortable than the stein. ( also, what's up with the mcdonald's paint job, lol )
www.recumbents.com
10 kW
That looks like it would be a good choice with a rear hub motor if it had a front suspension.
I took the bike on a longer shakedown ride to check if it would really make it all the way to work and back. It wasn't quite charged all the way but it made it 15.5 miles just fine and used 10.31 AH at 28.1 WH/mile. 90A max. Max speed 41 MPH (chickened out), ave speed 22.4 MPH . The batteries were warm and the motor was hot after the ride, but not too hot to touch.
I took the bike on a longer shakedown ride to check if it would really make it all the way to work and back. It wasn't quite charged all the way but it made it 15.5 miles just fine and used 10.31 AH at 28.1 WH/mile. 90A max. Max speed 41 MPH (chickened out), ave speed 22.4 MPH . The batteries were warm and the motor was hot after the ride, but not too hot to touch.
www.recumbents.com
10 kW
I started work on the tailbox. This one will fit my battery, computer bag, lock, shoes, lunch, etc for commuting or groceries for running errands. I have never had a grocery getter bike!
Yes, that's yellow coroplast.
Warren
Yes, that's yellow coroplast.
Warren
www.recumbents.com
10 kW
The tailbox is getting there. The lid is done now. Next I need to put the battery and electronics back together and work on some weatherproofing for them.
I used a heat gun to bend some of the Coroplast panels. You heat up the inside of the bend until it starts to crinkle a bit then bend it and hold it in place. Works nicely.
I used a heat gun to bend some of the Coroplast panels. You heat up the inside of the bend until it starts to crinkle a bit then bend it and hold it in place. Works nicely.
thundercamel
10 kW
Nice work!
www.recumbents.com
10 kW
Almost done!
Here's the battery and wiring with the seat removed.
Coroplast cover to keep mother nature off.
Tailbox cover with zip tie hinges
Side view. I just need to add the lock from the Otivia box to keep the lid shut.
Here's the battery and wiring with the seat removed.
Coroplast cover to keep mother nature off.
Tailbox cover with zip tie hinges
Side view. I just need to add the lock from the Otivia box to keep the lid shut.
www.recumbents.com
10 kW
With no rain forecast I rode to work today for the first time in about 5 years. It was wonderful. A lot was changed on the bike in those 5 years. The paint, seat cushion, battery, tires and tailbox are all different but it felt the same. The tailbox was rock solid with no rattles. The bike made it to work and back on a single charge.
Here are the stats from the CycleAnalyst for my round trip:
- It took 38 minutes to go 16 miles and use 10.95Ah (464.21 Watt/hr).
- Trip efficiency was 28Wh/mi.
- The battery pack started out at 48.8V and ended at 42.9V.
- The 92 max amps were probably delivered during a few jackrabbit starts at the beginning of my ride this morning.
- The average speed was 25.4MPH, but the max speed was 45.6MPH in an area with a bad intersection and a narrow road where I need to go fast to avoid being passed.
- At the end of the ride it would only deliver about 1500W max. Min voltage was 36.8V.
These Samsung 25R batteries are supposed to be 2.5 Ah, so this pack should potentially deliver 20Ah. Judging from these results it looks like I'd be able to do that going from a full charge of 50.4V to the min pack voltage of 30V, but those last few miles would be pretty slow.
-Warren
Here are the stats from the CycleAnalyst for my round trip:
- It took 38 minutes to go 16 miles and use 10.95Ah (464.21 Watt/hr).
- Trip efficiency was 28Wh/mi.
- The battery pack started out at 48.8V and ended at 42.9V.
- The 92 max amps were probably delivered during a few jackrabbit starts at the beginning of my ride this morning.
- The average speed was 25.4MPH, but the max speed was 45.6MPH in an area with a bad intersection and a narrow road where I need to go fast to avoid being passed.
- At the end of the ride it would only deliver about 1500W max. Min voltage was 36.8V.
These Samsung 25R batteries are supposed to be 2.5 Ah, so this pack should potentially deliver 20Ah. Judging from these results it looks like I'd be able to do that going from a full charge of 50.4V to the min pack voltage of 30V, but those last few miles would be pretty slow.
-Warren
999zip999
100 TW
What you got a problem not riding the bike you have a problem. The battery is going to get 17-5 or 18 amp your hours if you use it like you stole it.
Just ride the thing charge it ride it charge it learn it and don't melt something too soon.
Need some more data on that 25r but that might take a few years. Take your bike out and ride it. I believe those cells can take a fast recharge and then you get back on the road again same day. Ride on.
Just ride the thing charge it ride it charge it learn it and don't melt something too soon.
Need some more data on that 25r but that might take a few years. Take your bike out and ride it. I believe those cells can take a fast recharge and then you get back on the road again same day. Ride on.
www.recumbents.com
10 kW
Yep, I'm normally going to be charging to 49V and discharging to about 40, so the cells should last a while.
E-bike commuted to work again today. I hope the storms hold off until later like is forecast.
E-bike commuted to work again today. I hope the storms hold off until later like is forecast.
thundercamel
10 kW
I know, there's been a chance of rain for the last 3 months, right? Nice work!
999zip999
100 TW
My newly assembled bike was so much fun to ride I wrote it in the rain and CA when all funky butt apart and dried it then they start saying put some silicone around the inlet holder but yeah things get funky in the rain.
Great but what we want to know it can you get a thousand Cycles on that battery I mean you're going to have to get started maybe 2 a days to start.
I want some data voltage drop amp hour capacity and I want you to hurry up with the 2-year review
Great but what we want to know it can you get a thousand Cycles on that battery I mean you're going to have to get started maybe 2 a days to start.
I want some data voltage drop amp hour capacity and I want you to hurry up with the 2-year review
www.recumbents.com
10 kW
Here in the Chicago area we can ride when it's not snowing/freezing about 5 months out of the year. The way it's been going I can ride to work about twice a week with no rain. So maybe 50 charge cycles a year. It would take me 20 years to get to 1000 cycles!
www.recumbents.com
10 kW
Adjusted the trim pot on the charger to make it really charge to 49.0V. It had been charging to 48.8V for several years. That will give me about another 1/2 mile of high energy cruising!
I have been seeing some threads on the forum about the voltage a BMS needs to get to before it starts balancing.
Here are the specs for the EBay BMS I'm using:
44V 48V 50.4V 80A 12S Lithium ion / LiPolymer Battery Pack BMS for E-bike
12S 80A Li-ion / LiPO Battery protection board.
Applicable for
43V (3.6V * 12S) lithium battery & packs
44V (3.7V * 12S) lithium battery & packs
50.4V (4.2V * 12S) lithium battery & packs
Lithium battery (Li-ion)
Prismatic Lithium Polymer battery (Li-Po)
Technical Parameters:
Balanced current: 60mA (VCELL = 3.90V when)
Balanced for: 4.20 ± 0.05 V
Over-charged Protection: 4.2 ± 0.05 V
Over-charged Release: 4.05 ± 0.05 V
Over-discharged Protection: 2.9 ± 0.05 V
Over-charged delay: 5mS
Over-current Protecton: 80 A
Supports Max. Continuing Discharge Current: 80A
Max Charge Current : 40A
I think the text I bolded says that it starts balancing when the cell voltage is 3.9V (46.8V pack voltage). Does that look right to you guys?
-Warren
I have been seeing some threads on the forum about the voltage a BMS needs to get to before it starts balancing.
Here are the specs for the EBay BMS I'm using:
44V 48V 50.4V 80A 12S Lithium ion / LiPolymer Battery Pack BMS for E-bike
12S 80A Li-ion / LiPO Battery protection board.
Applicable for
43V (3.6V * 12S) lithium battery & packs
44V (3.7V * 12S) lithium battery & packs
50.4V (4.2V * 12S) lithium battery & packs
Lithium battery (Li-ion)
Prismatic Lithium Polymer battery (Li-Po)
Technical Parameters:
Balanced current: 60mA (VCELL = 3.90V when)
Balanced for: 4.20 ± 0.05 V
Over-charged Protection: 4.2 ± 0.05 V
Over-charged Release: 4.05 ± 0.05 V
Over-discharged Protection: 2.9 ± 0.05 V
Over-charged delay: 5mS
Over-current Protecton: 80 A
Supports Max. Continuing Discharge Current: 80A
Max Charge Current : 40A
I think the text I bolded says that it starts balancing when the cell voltage is 3.9V (46.8V pack voltage). Does that look right to you guys?
-Warren
www.recumbents.com
10 kW
Just checked the cell pack voltages and they are all over the place between 3.7V and 3.92V. I'm charging the pack now, and will check it again when that's done.
www.recumbents.com
10 kW
After leaving it on the charger overnight, cell voltages are now between 4.07 and 4.17. Still not great. One thing I didn't mention before is that half of the 25R cells were purchased in 2015 (Luna) and only used a few times, and half were purchased in 2018 (batterybro). I imagine the 2015 ones are not working as well as the 2018 ones but this is still bad. I need to find a better BMS.
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