Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

[litespeed]

I think I'm in the same boat and the reason I'm ordering the QS 205 V3 4T. I'm 210 lbs and 6'4". My MXUS gets hot quicker than I like and I think it's just a simple mass (as we have too much!) issue. I always watch for the heat so fun factor takes a back seat. If it wasnt for the pure cost of it I'd go to a 273 motor and have fun till I was sick and tired of it. The cost sucks the fun factor though. I have a street bike....er trike Can-Am Spyder RT-L so the bicycle is for when I ride by myself and need a trail fix. Wife doesn't like the lean on motorcycles.....I do and I don't live close to off road areas. We have tons of super cool single track and bike trails. Heck the Katy trail is 240 miles long alone!

Joostj, I'll be looking forward to hearing about the values that work best for this motor. I have a MAX-E 14 KW still in the box waiting for the QS motor. With Chinese New Year it looks like mid March before I'll see it.

Tom

 

[Offroader]

joostj, The Mxus 4t is 9KV and the QS205 5t is 9KV also, so motors have similar KV.

But you are comparing using 14s with the MXUS vs 22s with the QS205. I would think that would make a huge difference. You would have to compare them at the same voltage. You are bascially comparing with 80 battery amps like 4,480watts to 7,000watts, that is such a huge difference in power.

Why are you running such low phase amps at 150, you should have those maxed out to 350 which is also low in my opinion.

The QS205 will without doubt take more heat, but you are basically lugging around extra aluminum to do just that, about a few KG of it extra that is probably not necessary. I am surprised you don't feel the difference in weight between the 9KG MXUS and the 13KG QS205.

Having extra mass in a hubmotor to take the heat is inefficient, you are much better off having a cooling solution to deal with the heat. If you have a large enough battery pack the QS205 will eventually fill with heat then you will have to wait for it to cool down. My bike was unrideable in the summer heat with my Cromotor because it would heat up and would take like an hour to cool down. I fixed this all with a high powered fan cooling setup and now I can ride as hard as I want and never overheat.

 

[joostj]

joostj, The Mxus 4t is 9KV and the QS205 5t is 9KV also, so motors have similar KV.

But you are comparing using 14s with the MXUS vs 22s with the QS205. I would think that would make a huge difference. You would have to compare them at the same voltage. You are bascially comparing with 80 battery amps like 4,480watts to 7,000watts, that is such a huge difference in power.

Why are you running such low phase amps at 150, you should have those maxed out to 350 which is also low in my opinion.

The QS205 will without doubt take more heat, but you are basically lugging around extra aluminum to do just that, about a few KG of it extra that is probably not necessary. I am surprised you don't feel the difference in weight between the 9KG MXUS and the 13KG QS205.

Having extra mass in a hubmotor to take the heat is inefficient, you are much better off having a cooling solution to deal with the heat. If you have a large enough battery pack the QS205 will eventually fill with heat then you will have to wait for it to cool down. My bike was unrideable in the summer heat with my Cromotor because it would heat up and would take like an hour to cool down. I fixed this all with a high powered fan cooling setup and now I can ride as hard as I want and never overheat.

Offroader,

I probably didn't write it to clearly.....but my comparison was with the same battery. 14s8p 25r. The QS 205 ran average 20 deg cooler and had more (subjective) torque. The reason I limited my batt / phase amps in the controller, is the battery only had a 50amp BMS in it. The 14s battery is for my tangent build, but since that project got delayed I started my NYX first.

I now have a proper battery 22s8p 30q in NYX so I maxed out the batt/phase settings in the Adaptto. Now I just want to keep the controller cool enough to not have to regulate my riding style, (motocross is my other hobby).

I am plenty happy with the current power and will slowly reduce the batt/phase current till it's cool without having to monitor it all the time. Also will add heat sinks to the controller. And of course fine tune the settings along the way.

Thanks a bunch for all the feedback and suggestions from everyone.

 

[joostj]

I think I'm in the same boat and the reason I'm ordering the QS 205 V3 4T. I'm 210 lbs and 6'4". My MXUS gets hot quicker than I like and I think it's just a simple mass (as we have too much!) issue. I always watch for the heat so fun factor takes a back seat. If it wasnt for the pure cost of it I'd go to a 273 motor and have fun till I was sick and tired of it. The cost sucks the fun factor though. I have a street bike....er trike Can-Am Spyder RT-L so the bicycle is for when I ride by myself and need a trail fix. Wife doesn't like the lean on motorcycles.....I do and I don't live close to off road areas. We have tons of super cool single track and bike trails. Heck the Katy trail is 240 miles long alone!

Joostj, I'll be looking forward to hearing about the values that work best for this motor. I have a MAX-E 14 KW still in the box waiting for the QS motor. With Chinese New Year it looks like mid March before I'll see it.

Tom,
I have to agree, i believe the extra 65 lbs of body weight makes a huge difference on how power may be evaluated. It's not like I'm fat and can loose the weight.... 6'3", so It would be loosing muscle, which I'm not about to do.

The 273 motor sounds very interesting, and I would love to hear how that works out if you every do that. But I think a 'dialed in' QS 205 V3 will give you sufficient power for single track style riding. For me the extra 6-8 lbs QS 205 over the mxus is not noticeable, but for the lighter guys it may be a bigger factor.

 

[brooklands]

One question about the Adaptto BMS: Am I right when I assume that the connection of BMS and Controller is only needed when setting the BMS up or 'visualizing' the cell status? And when it is not connected to the controller it works like a normal BMS?

The reason for my question is that I am carrying my battery in a backpack and I don't want another cable going from there to my bike.

afaik it doesn't do anything when disconnected. It requires the controller's 'brain' to operate.

Thank you sn0wchyld. It seems a bit strange for me that you have keep the controller turned on all the time to have a balanced battery.

Any other experiences how this BMS works?

 

[madin88]

Guys, don't mix Cromotor V2/V3 with the QSV3 EXTRA.
The QSV3 (probably it will be named as Cromotor V4) has a differnt stator design and much more copper fill, so aside from it's higher mass which extends time before overheating, it also produces less heat. From the extrapolations it has around 30% less phase to phase resistance compared to MXUS (same kV types), so 30% less heat at given phase amps. Thats quite a good number and great improvement over the previous model!!

The Cromotor V2/V3 (it's QSV2 EXPORT) is much closer to the MXUS because it's phase to phase resistance only is a few percent better.
I have directly measured and compared both on the same bike, and the difference in torque is hardly noticeable with similar batt and phase amp settings (for me it was not).
What was noticeable is it heats up quicker (and cools down faster as well), but this is more mass related IMO.

From my experiance the continuous power is very similar (i ride 17" moped wheels) and the MXUS even has higher peak efficinecy (90% MXUS vs. something like 87% for the Cro V2/V3).
In larger wheels the difference probably will be more noticeable, because the higher the required torque needed to maintain a given speed, the bigger the phase-to phase resistance comes into play. In very small wheels i believe the MXUS will make the higher continuous power because of its better efficiency, but in larger wheels or when climbing steep hills, the Cro for sure will perform better.

It depends on many factors what motor the best choice will be. like already mentioned the weight of the vehicle + rider, the wheel size, onroad or offroad, the set phase amps, defensive or aggresive driving etc..

 

[Allex]

One question about the Adaptto BMS: Am I right when I assume that the connection of BMS and Controller is only needed when setting the BMS up or 'visualizing' the cell status? And when it is not connected to the controller it works like a normal BMS?

The reason for my question is that I am carrying my battery in a backpack and I don't want another cable going from there to my bike.

afaik it doesn't do anything when disconnected. It requires the controller's 'brain' to operate.

Thank you sn0wchyld. It seems a bit strange for me that you have keep the controller turned on all the time to have a balanced battery.

Any other experiences how this BMS works?

A regular BMS only balance the cells when the cells reaches a fully charge state. So if you configure the adaptto likewise you can turn the controller off when the balancing is complete. I would not recommend adaptto solution if you have your battery in your backpack and don't want to hook BMS wire.

 

[korpin]

You need SD card with firmware on it to adjust contrast

THANKS

 

[Offroader]

Guys, don't mix Cromotor V2/V3 with the QSV3 EXTRA.
The QSV3 (probably it will be named as Cromotor V4) has a differnt stator design and much more copper fill, so aside from it's higher mass which extends time before overheating, it also produces less heat. From the extrapolations it has around 30% less phase to phase resistance compared to MXUS (same kV types), so 30% less heat at given phase amps. Thats quite a good number and great improvement over the previous model!!

The Cromotor V2/V3 (it's QSV2 EXPORT) is much closer to the MXUS because it's phase to phase resistance only is a few percent better.
I have directly measured and compared both on the same bike, and the difference in torque is hardly noticeable with similar batt and phase amp settings (for me it was not).
What was noticeable is it heats up quicker (and cools down faster as well), but this is more mass related IMO.

From my experiance the continuous power is very similar (i ride 17" moped wheels) and the MXUS even has higher peak efficinecy (90% MXUS vs. something like 87% for the Cro V2/V3).
In larger wheels the difference probably will be more noticeable, because the higher the required torque needed to maintain a given speed, the bigger the phase-to phase resistance comes into play. In very small wheels i believe the MXUS will make the higher continuous power because of its better efficiency, but in larger wheels or when climbing steep hills, the Cro for sure will perform better.

It depends on many factors what motor the best choice will be. like already mentioned the weight of the vehicle + rider, the wheel size, onroad or offroad, the set phase amps, defensive or aggresive driving etc..

Nicely written, makes a lot of sense. The other issue to think about is how much of a difference the extra weight of the hubmotor makes and how this plays into the comparison of a lighter Mxus vs heavier QS205. Is the extra weight savings in the rear worth using the MXUS in situations where a Cro/QS205 would perform better.

I have heard some say the weight in the rear makes a huge differences, then others say they don't notice any difference. I guess a lot depends on how hard you are driving the bike off-road.

I'd have to compare the handling of my bike with both motors. Eventually I'll do this when I finally get a MXUS. For me I'll use a cooling solution for the hub motor so heat isn't an issue, and I wouldn't mind losing some battery power to have a lighter rear on my bike.

 

[Offroader]

I think I'm in the same boat and the reason I'm ordering the QS 205 V3 4T. I'm 210 lbs and 6'4". My MXUS gets hot quicker than I like and I think it's just a simple mass (as we have too much!) issue. I always watch for the heat so fun factor takes a back seat. If it wasnt for the pure cost of it I'd go to a 273 motor and have fun till I was sick and tired of it. The cost sucks the fun factor though. I have a street bike....er trike Can-Am Spyder RT-L so the bicycle is for when I ride by myself and need a trail fix. Wife doesn't like the lean on motorcycles.....I do and I don't live close to off road areas. We have tons of super cool single track and bike trails. Heck the Katy trail is 240 miles long alone!

Joostj, I'll be looking forward to hearing about the values that work best for this motor. I have a MAX-E 14 KW still in the box waiting for the QS motor. With Chinese New Year it looks like mid March before I'll see it.

Tom,
I have to agree, i believe the extra 65 lbs of body weight makes a huge difference on how power may be evaluated. It's not like I'm fat and can loose the weight.... 6'3", so It would be loosing muscle, which I'm not about to do.

The 273 motor sounds very interesting, and I would love to hear how that works out if you every do that. But I think a 'dialed in' QS 205 V3 will give you sufficient power for single track style riding. For me the extra 6-8 lbs QS 205 over the mxus is not noticeable, but for the lighter guys it may be a bigger factor.

I always wonder how much body weight makes a difference. I guess body weight is mostly an issue with climbing and acceleration and doesn't matter much when just cruising along at a constant speed.

I'll say this, I may have the perfect weight and height for an ebike. I'm 5'10 and around 130lbs. I got the perfect height because it is average and most bikes are built around average height riders. My height also allows me to easily reach the ground with my foot when stopped with higher bottom bracket bike, I've learned this from people who are shorter at 5'7 who have difficulty.

I also am skinny at 130lbs which is very light weight for a guy. You won't find really anybody as tall as 5'10 who weigh less than 130lbs. So I got the best height for comfortable seating and stand over position and the lowest weight for that height.

But you guys over 200lbs, damn thats 70+ lbs more your bike has to pull up hills and accelerate. I would imagine that being our ebikes don't have gears that this much weight must make a difference.
I always felt that my bike has extremly good acceleration at lower power levels, where most others seem unhappy and want more power 10kw+. I wonder if this is due to me being lighter weight.

I'm not bragging here as I'd much rather walk into a bar at 6'3 210lbs then my 5'10 130lbs build.

 

[Allex]

Word up offroader. I am about 130lbs and when I have my kid sitting on the frame, this adds about 60lbs and my 10kW bike suddenly feels very, very sluggish, like downgrading to 5kW
So those 60lbs make a huuuge diff. during acceleration and of course to the heat.

 

[sn0wchyld]

One question about the Adaptto BMS: Am I right when I assume that the connection of BMS and Controller is only needed when setting the BMS up or 'visualizing' the cell status? And when it is not connected to the controller it works like a normal BMS?

The reason for my question is that I am carrying my battery in a backpack and I don't want another cable going from there to my bike.

afaik it doesn't do anything when disconnected. It requires the controller's 'brain' to operate.

Thank you sn0wchyld. It seems a bit strange for me that you have keep the controller turned on all the time to have a balanced battery.

Any other experiences how this BMS works?

Generally when things are off the battery will not drift or change its balance unless something major goes wrong (like a cell dies/goes bad). So having a BMS on all the time is actually not a good idea, as it wastes power and marginally increases the likelihood of a major failure that could kill your battery )though this is very unlikely).

Most well matched battery packs will require little to no balancing anyway - previously i monitored my packs each charge, and they stayed in balance (bulk charging, no balancing) for dozens of cycles. I only needed to balance them for about half an hour or so a few times a year, and thats only because I wanted to maintain less than about 20-30mV difference when fully charged.

 

[sn0wchyld]

..........

I always wonder how much body weight makes a difference. I guess body weight is mostly an issue with climbing and acceleration and doesn't matter much when just cruising along at a constant speed.

I'll say this, I may have the perfect weight and height for an ebike. I'm 5'10 and around 130lbs. I got the perfect height because it is average and most bikes are built around average height riders. My height also allows me to easily reach the ground with my foot when stopped with higher bottom bracket bike, I've learned this from people who are shorter at 5'7 who have difficulty.

I also am skinny at 130lbs which is very light weight for a guy. You won't find really anybody as tall as 5'10 who weigh less than 130lbs. So I got the best height for comfortable seating and stand over position and the lowest weight for that height.

But you guys over 200lbs, damn thats 70+ lbs more your bike has to pull up hills and accelerate. I would imagine that being our ebikes don't have gears that this much weight must make a difference.
I always felt that my bike has extremly good acceleration at lower power levels, where most others seem unhappy and want more power 10kw+. I wonder if this is due to me being lighter weight.

I'm not bragging here as I'd much rather walk into a bar at 6'3 210lbs then my 5'10 130lbs build.

Word up offroader. I am about 130lbs and when I have my kid sitting on the frame, this adds about 60lbs and my 10kW bike suddenly feels very, very sluggish, like downgrading to 5kW
So those 60lbs make a huuuge diff. during acceleration and of course to the heat.

I'm jealous of you lads. I'm just shy of 220 at the moment, and the lightest ive ever been (after 18months of near 8hr a day snowboarding and landscaping, had a resting 6pack) i was still in the 190's. I'd have to be dead already to reach a 'healthy' BMI. Big feet and weight make my choice of snowboards somewhat limited, and my power needs for a zippy bike all that much greater. I had one mate who was about 5'7 and maybe 130ish, was always jelous how he could throw himself around on a board and never get hurt - he didn't weigh enough to do any damage when he landed

I'd be interested to see the difference in acceleration if one of you light guys is willing to do a couple of accelerations from a standstill, one carrying enough to make you effectively 200-220. Or maybe a longer ride to see the difference in motor temps?

 

[JumperJackFlash]

Could you guys help me wire up a variable regen switch to the Adaptto controller?

1.) The Standard Regen Setup has TWO wires.
2.) The Variable Regen Switch (Wuxing left hand throttle lever) has THREE wires.

Thanks.

 

[ridethelightning]

mine was-
wuxing white- adaptto white, wuxing black- adaptto black, wuxing red- adaptto brown

 

[JumperJackFlash]

Is the white regen wire the same as the brake signal wire?

Is the brake cutoff still functional with the variable regen installed?

Thanks.

 

[Artur]

My modified qsv3 sometimes goes up to 120 degree in 17 moto wheel.. cant imagine me riding like this in mxus or any other motor.
I will receive 20 motors for sale in 1 week. Pics are comming.

 

[ridethelightning]

Is the white regen wire the same as the brake signal wire?

Is the brake cutoff still functional with the variable regen installed?

Thanks.

yep and yep

 

[brooklands]

A regular BMS only balance the cells when the cells reaches a fully charge state. So if you configure the adaptto likewise you can turn the controller off when the balancing is complete. I would not recommend adaptto solution if you have your battery in your backpack and don't want to hook BMS wire.

Generally when things are off the battery will not drift or change its balance unless something major goes wrong (like a cell dies/goes bad). So having a BMS on all the time is actually not a good idea, as it wastes power and marginally increases the likelihood of a major failure that could kill your battery )though this is very unlikely).

Most well matched battery packs will require little to no balancing anyway - previously i monitored my packs each charge, and they stayed in balance (bulk charging, no balancing) for dozens of cycles. I only needed to balance them for about half an hour or so a few times a year, and thats only because I wanted to maintain less than about 20-30mV difference when fully charged.

Ok, thank you guys. I will look for another BMS which suits my requirements better.

 

[joostj]

Ok, thank you guys. I will look for another BMS which suits my requirements better.

Her's the one I used 22s 150 amp rating

http://www.batterysupports.com/lion-lipo-nbsp-80v-nbsp-22s-c-32_66.html


Easy to install...no issues so far

 

[bigbore]

I think I'm in the same boat and the reason I'm ordering the QS 205 V3 4T. I'm 210 lbs and 6'4". My MXUS gets hot quicker than I like and I think it's just a simple mass (as we have too much!) issue. I always watch for the heat so fun factor takes a back seat. If it wasnt for the pure cost of it I'd go to a 273 motor and have fun till I was sick and tired of it. The cost sucks the fun factor though. I have a street bike....er trike Can-Am Spyder RT-L so the bicycle is for when I ride by myself and need a trail fix. Wife doesn't like the lean on motorcycles.....I do and I don't live close to off road areas. We have tons of super cool single track and bike trails. Heck the Katy trail is 240 miles long alone!

Joostj, I'll be looking forward to hearing about the values that work best for this motor. I have a MAX-E 14 KW still in the box waiting for the QS motor. With Chinese New Year it looks like mid March before I'll see it.

Tom

I have that same QS205, now I need to install it on my Bomber than I hope we can share some controller parameters.

 

[bigbore]

Word up offroader. I am about 130lbs and when I have my kid sitting on the frame, this adds about 60lbs and my 10kW bike suddenly feels very, very sluggish, like downgrading to 5kW
So those 60lbs make a huuuge diff. during acceleration and of course to the heat.

I'm about 186lbs .... then you know why I love my 12Kw Stealth Bomber

 

[litespeed]

I think I'm in the same boat and the reason I'm ordering the QS 205 V3 4T. I'm 210 lbs and 6'4". My MXUS gets hot quicker than I like and I think it's just a simple mass (as we have too much!) issue. I always watch for the heat so fun factor takes a back seat. If it wasnt for the pure cost of it I'd go to a 273 motor and have fun till I was sick and tired of it. The cost sucks the fun factor though. I have a street bike....er trike Can-Am Spyder RT-L so the bicycle is for when I ride by myself and need a trail fix. Wife doesn't like the lean on motorcycles.....I do and I don't live close to off road areas. We have tons of super cool single track and bike trails. Heck the Katy trail is 240 miles long alone!

Joostj, I'll be looking forward to hearing about the values that work best for this motor. I have a MAX-E 14 KW still in the box waiting for the QS motor. With Chinese New Year it looks like mid March before I'll see it.

Tom

I have that same QS205, now I need to install it on my Bomber than I hope we can share some controller parameters.

Looking forward to it!

 

[Altair]

BALANCING: "Charge Current Too Low"
A while back, there was discussion of this "error message" during the balancing of the batteries, and there wasn't any conclusive reply stating if it was normal or a problem.
I contacted Oleg at Adaptto and received his reply:

"No worries, that is exactly how BMS works.
As you probably know, BMS checks the voltage on every serial battery pack. Once any of packs reaches its upper limit BMS sends the signal to controller to STOP the charging (then you see Charge current to low and Detecting Charger messages). After that BMS starts bleeding the voltage from charged cell to other cells. Once the voltage on that cell (the one which reached voltage limit) decreases - controller starts charging again.
These cycles will continue until the BMS will manage to balance your battery. "

So, perfectly normal. Just an unfortunate choice of a status message.

CRITICAL VOLTAGE
In the BMS setup, V cell config
I asked him what was the difference between Minimum Voltage, and Critical Voltage. His reply:

"Don't pay attention to Critical V parameter. It was designed for some specific purposes which were not finally implemented so you can set this at the same level as Minimum V.
The Minimum V on its side is an important parameter which switches off the motor once the voltage of any of your cells decreases to Minimum V level."

And: "We're working on improving our manuals so all the updates will hopefully be posted on our web-site soon."

WHOO-HOO !
Thanks Oleg

 

[Adaptto E-Drives Lab]

Hi Everyone!
It is less than a week left to take part in Adaptto Photo Challenge.
Don't miss your chance to win one of our controllers! Make a great photo of your build and follow some easy steps in order to participate!
Good Luck!