Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

[GiantEV]

Anyone played with a throttle that you can twist backwards to increase regen to use for slowing down?

 

[GCinDC]

It would appear that the reed solution is cheaper (expensive at 60 bucks for a pair) and lighter (reed+magnet seems very lightweight)

more like $3.

the reed switch was $.49, since a pack of 10 was $4.95 shipped: Magnetic Sensor / Reed Switch NEW w/ connector NO 10ea

 

[Mammalian04]

Oops! I typed that wrong. I meant $60 bucks for the 2 Magura pressure switches. I'll fix the other post.

...and thanks for the Reed Switch link!

 

[Brake]

I would love to play with Adappto's throttle once it comes out.

 

[GCinDC]

has anyone already flashed RC9b?

yep, i did it on both mine and axel's bike. everything seems to work fine, but still learning the features.

really struggling w/ overheating tho. i'm seeing temp bars and lower power when internal temp is only at ~100F...

ok, finally sorted out the 'overheating' issue - it wasn't overheating really. in interface, when T display is set to T, bars rise quite quickly, but current isn't being limited, and the system isn't OVERheating necessarily, it's just heating.

i've since changed it to OVH, so only see bars when the system is overheating, and either limiting current, or about to:

T display: T/OVH
Graphic display bar indicator on the right side of the home screen. When you select "t o" the bars will fill as the motor/controller temperature increases. When you select "OVH" bars will fill out only when the overheat protection temperature limit is reached and current limiting is enabled due to overheating of the motor/controller.

so that explains the temp bars..

Q: so when does the system start limiting current then (because of heat)??
A1: when the controller temp rises above 60C. this number is not programmable. below this temp, the controller should output 100%. above 60C, current gets limited. and 75C is the maximum controller temp, so current drops to 0.
A2: Advanced Setup screen (3/5): T° limit value. this is the peak temperature limit of the motor. upon reaching the temperature 20 degrees below this limit, the controller will begin limiting power as the temperature increases, reaching zero power at the temperature limit.

cool. but my question has been, if my system is NOT overheating and causing current to get limited, why is my new miniE less powerful?

answer, my OLD mini-E, with F/W RC4...

allowed max battery amps of 72A, and i'd routinely note ~6kw peaks:

but, note to shoppers, the new miniE with F/W 9b (and i'm pretty sure the previous version 8 too) allows only max amps of 56A (4.8KW):

so THAT is why i'm not wheelieing with the new miniE and not hitting 50mph on the flat! those who've seen my earlier vids/posts, should take note! the power is still ok, but you know, once you've tasted more power, less power is well, meh..

edit - i actually think the F/W doesn't force a particular Amp limit, but the Watt limit, because each shunt resistance is different, so the Amp value adjusts accordingly to limit the watts.

so what to do? i guess one option is to void the warranty by trying out the unlocked firmware, in which i can up the profile amp limit!

i'm not sure my warranty is valid still anyway, w/ my heat sink mod and side cover sealing...

so to correct a post earlier, after an SD card has been used for firmware, it is possible to make it computer readable again.. note that it doesn't display now in win explorer but does in disk management:

formatting again for good measure:

assigning drive letter:

ready to write mini-u (unlocked):

dang! and error? allex, can you translate this?

i got this message (but different sectors on two other clean SD cards, and finally got this message on the one card i'd used successfully before... so does it need to be formatted as FAT, FAT32 or does it matter? or does writing the F/W once actually kill the card for later use?

and phinally, i'm reformatting the user's guide, to make it a bit easier to use the menu, attached. but i've thought of a better format still, so will use this only as a reference. lol. use at your own risk...

 

[madin88]

i didn't format the SD card. i put it in the laptop and run the programm.
you will not see the SD card as a storage device on your computer. it is some kind of special format after the program puts the firmware on it.

 

[GCinDC]

ran it a bunch of times on several SD cards. what works for me is NOT formatting it, but adding a drive letter if it's already been written to. then downloading and right-clicking and running RSDWriter.exe as Administrator. i also restarted the program each time for each card. pretty sure this message means success, but tell me if i'm wrong!

 

[Allex]

Damn they should make that software in English too...
Yeah that message is "Write is Successfull"
Fist message is "Error on Writing in Sector №0"

My SD card work without problems I also see it after the firmware flash.
I think You need to have a newer SD card, like SDHC or SDXC.

If you need more Batt/phase current without voiding the warranty you could always flash to RC7b, it is a stable version and the bike feels a lot quicker from the start, I believe it is because shunt fills alot quicker. Andrey an I use this vesrion still. This is for the MAX-e at least.

 

[Hugechainring]

Hi Allex
You seem to have some experience with the different firmware versions.
Any chance you could post a quick summary of which firmware is stable and which ones not to use and why? Or is the newest the best?

 

[Hugechainring]

edit - i actually think the F/W doesn't force a particular Amp limit, but the Watt limit, because each shunt resistance is different, so the Amp value adjusts accordingly to limit the watts.

That sounds off to me. The shunt values are different due to manufacturing tolerances, but the shunts in each controller are calibrated to read and display the current accurately. The only time there is an absolute power limit is when you are running at maximum voltage.

The current normally available is a function of the profiles, which can be overridden and reduced by controller temperature, and/or motor temperature, or over voltage condition.

 

[GCinDC]

agree. after the controllers are put together, they accurately calibrate the shunt, as each are slightly different. one could solder the shunt and recallibrate it, though i'm not sure if the F/W needs to be unlocked for that?

i had thought that the shunt value was determined during autodetect, but this isn't true. (andrey told me).

The only time there is an absolute power limit is when you are running at maximum voltage.

no doubt. max power (watts) occurs when max voltage (freshly charged batts) and max current are supplied.

but re the current, i guess what i was wondering: is 56.4A the max Ib A profile setting (for miniE) in F/W 9b, or does the system adjust that amp level based on the max voltage it detects so it can limit the wattage to some fixed amount...

 

[madin88]

in RC7b firmware the phase current output was higher than the value set in power mode profiles. In the later Firmware this was corrected.
imho it is a bit insane to use more than 350A phase for cromotor or similar motors, because the axles will not hold long under this high torque and the motor will overheat very fast..

 

[Paradigm]

I keep seeing reference to Adaptto's new throttle they will be releasing. Where is this information coming from? I haven't seen anything about it on their site. I finally got a hold of them to place my order. I'm getting a Max-E, Mini-E (minus the display), bus connector for a slave controller, BMS, and 70A charge cable. If I get a larger BMS (28S) can I only use 16S until I want to change my battery layout later on or do I need two different BMS units?

 

[Hugechainring]

but re the current, i guess what i was wondering: is 56.4A the max Ib A profile setting (for miniE) in F/W 9b, or does the system adjust that amp level based on the max voltage it detects so it can limit the wattage to some fixed amount...

That wouldn't make a lot of sense to do it that way. The FETS have a power dissipation limit, but the power stage of the controller is principally limited by the shared current handling ability of the FETs. The power stage will not handle 112.8 Ib A battery amps at 45V (constant power) much better than at 90V. I understand that the power/current relationship doesn't have to be linear, but it is still sounds wonky.

one could solder the shunt and recallibrate it, though i'm not sure if the F/W needs to be unlocked for that?

You wouldn't need to solder it unless you had reached it's ampacity. It would be good to know what shunts are installed. You could trick the controller by recalibrating the shunt to a fixed percentage of it's original value, so the actual current used is say, twice what is displayed without going to the unlocked firmware. This might be safer, since the over-voltage cutoff would still work. I haven't got a closeup look at the boards, but I would anticipate that much modification would need to be done first, like upgrading the 10ga leads and building up the traces. My opinion at this time is that the FETs can handle more, but the current handling ability of the rest of the power stage is the limiting factor, including the spreader bar arrangement etc.

 

[GCinDC]

controller heat is now the weakest link in my build, even at 60A max. good reason to get max-E, but i keep thinking about a new enclosure and a small fan..

motor heat used to be the weakest link.

part of the reason for the extra controller heat is - well, DC is stupid hot, but besides that - REGEN. i hardly use my brake pads at all any more - only in emergencies. the regen is strong and awesome, but it does add heat...

 

[Paradigm]

I'm recasing my controllers and adding peilter coolers to reclaim lost heat back to the battery and act as a backup cooling system in a pinch.

 

[Mammalian04]

I'm recasing my controllers and adding peilter coolers to reclaim lost heat back to the battery and act as a backup cooling system in a pinch.

Link?

EDIT: Link to the peltier generator you are going to use. I had to look it up. Cool concept. I wonder if just sitting in the sun and cooling at night would generate anything...

 

[Paradigm]

Link to what?

 

[madin88]

I'm recasing my controllers and adding peilter coolers to reclaim lost heat back to the battery and act as a backup cooling system in a pinch.

how should this work?

 

[Paradigm]

Its still under development. The design is not that complicated but I am developing EV components for commercial application. I cant go into a lot of detail, sorry. I'll post some photos down the road on my build thread.

On the plus side I will hopefully offer systems like this for sale at some point. I'm building my first ebike but its more a prototype development platform. I really like the features offered on Adaptto products, they compliment several of my EV subsystem designs. I'm big into the battery side of things but I hope to come out with a line of high end products incorporating a central brain unit that allows the unification of all ebike (and eventually e-motorcycles, cars, and boats) components and subsystems. Kind of like the leggo's of the DIY EV world; my designs offer full integration of my components (ie wireless protocols, built in sensors) but still allow the customer to use any other 3rd party components they desire.

 

[Hugechainring]

I'm recasing my controllers and adding peilter coolers to reclaim lost heat back to the battery and act as a backup cooling system in a pinch.

You should consider starting your own thread showcasing the development of your products. You are swaying us off topic.

 

[Paradigm]

I'm recasing my controllers and adding peilter coolers to reclaim lost heat back to the battery and act as a backup cooling system in a pinch.

You should consider starting your own thread showcasing the development of your products. You are swaying us off topic.

I will show case stuff on my build thread. I brought up the cooling system in response to people complaining about heat problems and responded to questions and made a single elaboration on my en devour. A single post with a portion straying from topic is hardly a reason to call me out for being inappropriate. I added my little rant in an edit to contain it in one post.

I'll be sure to keep my solutions to problems people encounter to myself in the future.

 

[Hugechainring]

controller heat is now the weakest link in my build, even at 60A max. good reason to get max-E, but i keep thinking about a new enclosure and a small fan..

motor heat used to be the weakest link.

part of the reason for the extra controller heat is - well, DC is stupid hot, but besides that - REGEN. i hardly use my brake pads at all any more - only in emergencies. the regen is strong and awesome, but it does add heat...

Copy that. There is much more potential in the mini-e. As soon as I get mine, it's going under the microscope. I already have a design in my head for a one-piece heat sink to replace the spreader bar. This would require cutting the side out of the enclosure, but this could be done fairly easily with hand tools and a drill. Of course it would still seal. Also adding better insulating pads and grease will help. I should give in and get down and dirty with the power stage to see what, if anything can be done there. We can't really do anything about the heat it's making, but we can probably improve how it is managed.

Of course one could always upgrade to the MAX-E, but the idea of a super compact, efficient controller like the mini-e is very appealing. Some wise guy is probably going to tweak the MAX-E as well.

I don't have the dimensions, but the simplest upgrade you could do now is to replace the spreader bar with a solid, oversize T-shaped chunk of aluminum. I could be wrong, but I believe the connection between the spreader bar and the case is not as good as it could be. This would help just by adding some thermal mass to soak up those spikes, plus it will have more surface area. It would have even more if you could machine in some fins. D'oh! The cats out of the bag. Do you have a EV friendly guy with a milling machine available?

So, is your case actually getting hot, or are you only seeing the FET temp rise on the controller?

 

[Hugechainring]

I will show case stuff on my build thread. I brought up the cooling system in response to people complaining about heat problems and responded to questions and made a single elaboration on my en devour. A single post with a portion straying from topic is hardly a reason to call me out for being inappropriate. I added my little rant in an edit to contain it in one post.

I'll be sure to keep my solutions to problems people encounter to myself in the future.

You're taking my comments way too personally. I am glad you are here. I apologize if I came off as "calling you out". Off topic discussions are not necessarily "inappropriate" in my book, I've already seen "inappropriate", and believe me, you're not it.

I was tempted to dive in to a discussion of Peltier coolers, but then though better of it, because it would be difficult to implement Peltiers here efficiently. Perhaps on a much larger controller with more waste heat it would make sense.

Some of your development work sounds very much like a potentially competing product when released, so from that point of view, discussing competing products in this thread is sketchy. It's not your cooling solution that I found distracting but the discussion of the development of competing products. I should have been more clear.

Carry on.

 

[Paradigm]

I'm not actually looking to make a motor controller, so on that level there's no competition. The peilter power reclamation is nominal with systems as small as e-bikes but if you have one on the breaks, motor, battery, and controller it can be worth it. Thats the whole point of experimentation though, right.