AFT mid drive giant glory 2013

Thanks,
I heard that LR was quieter and took more power and whatever they offer is 1/3 off the price cheaper than the AFT, so kind of lean that way. To be honest I can't visualise all the moving parts on the LR even just looking at the motor but it does look bigger.

Yeah there is a long wait list, but that's why having another bike is great. If I had two I can push the limits to break one and then baby the other while I repair the other. parts and shipping + time are a pain in the ass for our beloved hobby.

Are there any es members or vids out there comparing these two midies? Electicbikes.com writer leans towards the lr too....

cheers
 
You'll be happy with either one i reckon. The AFT is probably a little lighter, more compact, and possibly lower maintenace and better efficiency than the belt. But it comes at a higher price.
I had the money saved so i opted for the AFT. It was the best option in my mind, and it is performing perfectly.

I dont know of any official comparisons to show you, but theres a few ES members with AFT kits, and theres some good EGO kit vids on youtube (same performance as aft but without the upgrades for durability), they might give you more to go off.
 
I think wormsmans comments above say a lot, he has both the bafang BBs02 and GNG kits and he is not considering the LR other upgrades as fundamentally its the same design.
by wormsman » Sun May 04, 2014 7:54 pm
I own a santa cruz heckler with bbso2 750w version and a kona stinky with gng mid with lr mod kit on primary chain I also am running the 50v samsung 16.4 ah battery ,but boy that glory looks nice I would love more wattage out of both my bikes the kona just eats chains and the bafang is just very bad with heat.These aft bikes are lookin good would love to see a video or two thinking I might copy this build
Click to expand...

I heard that LR was quieter and took more power and whatever they offer is 1/3 off the price cheaper than the AFT
Click to expand...

Their is several things that explain the cheaper cost, the LR kit is a new prototype and even LR has said people should expect problems, their has been already broken bolts and popped off pulleys already
Re: LightningRods mid drive kit
Postby LightningRods » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:23 am
Perfection doesn't exist. I've said repeatedly that these kits won't be perfect. They'll just be the best I can do. I'm still in the steep part of my learning curve. A year from now, if I survive this, I know I'll look back at my first efforts as really rough. You have to start somewhere.
Click to expand...
Whereas the AFT seems to be several years old with people who have done thousands of miles already on it.
Also on the LR thread it has already been mentioned prices may go up when out of prototype phase .

-Also some other differences that could explain the lower cost
- No expensive ceramic bearings
-Aluminium mounting and covers etc whereas GNG is cheaper but heavier and not as corrosion resistant painted steel .
-Mini Kelly controllers which are smaller and lighter and better quality then the Lyen of the GNG.
 
Thanks for the input Gab,
John, if you can be bothered reading through this post
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=60019&start=50
It'll give you more of an idea of why i chose the AFT kit. Its a huge dumb arguement about who's is best, but theres some valid points there I think. If you want to save some money, LR, GNG or BBS will all do the job. The difference seems to be more how long they will KEEP doing the job. The AFT is the best quality, and built to last a long time at (relatively) high performance levels. Its more expensive initially, but likely cheaper in the long term.
The choice is yours.
 
wow interesting read I subscribed to that topic and put out some more questions there, but I think your arguements for the AFT are making me lean the other way. I want something that will be reliable and if the LR GNG is still beta I got no time for that.
 
Is the ATF kit still pretty noisy with the sound deading shroud? I love the compact design when compared to the LR kit.

I have been trying to get parts (not a kit) from LR for a month and a half now and still nothing. :cry: Starting to wonder if i shouldn't go for
some Melbourne made instead.

Al
 
Hi Al,
The aft is pretty quiet. It's definitely not silent, but the noise levels with all the sound shrouds is comparable to chunky tire road noise. Its noisier under load on climbs, but very quiet just cruising.
Its hard to explain the noise level. Ive caught up and tailed road bikes, and they've had no idea it was electric, or even that i was behind them, until a traffic light.
I wouldnt worry about noise being an issue, nobody has even commented on the noise of mine since ive had it, and personally i would describe the noise levels as quiet in general.
I still have to ring my bell so walkers hear me coming up behind them if thats any indication.

Cheers,
Jesse
 
I love the compact design of the AFT when compared to the LR kit.

I also have to agree with Fredorbea, the AFT looks so much nicer, more compact and properly finished than the LR with all its open belts and pulleys. Not sure what it is about the LR design with all the pulleys it looks like it was made in the 1900's in someones back yard.. ? Also I bet the AFT is more mud resistant being enclosed.

In this thread there is lots of videos and close ups, and it looks awesome, the huge cooling fins look badass :p

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=57337&start=75
 
The problem I have is there is no way I will get approval from the finance department for an AFT kit. :wink:

Does anyone know which cyclone motor the AFT kit uses? There are so many options on the site.
I already have a lyen controller for a 48v system so just thought I would get a motor and gearbox and make my own "AFT"


Al
 
John Bozi said:
forgot to ask does the aft have temperature probe of some sort for the ca to limit?
Click to expand...

Cyclone motors come with a bimetallic strip inserted into the stator coils. This can be wired inline with your on/off switch to power down the system if it gets above 85c. I reckon it may still be possible for the rotor magnets to get cooked with a short, high power burst though.
 
85 degrees? thats normal operating temperature for my hub... Do different motors have such a wide difference in maximum temperature? I start limiting amps @110 and now that I have sprayed elmotherm inside it I got reminded of the smell when I reach over 100 so I know somethings cooking by ca, power drop and smell :)

so do you have to do it yourself to open up the motor and connect a wire?
 
So long as your keeping motor below 93c the magnets wont be taking any heat damage (thats straight from several RC motor manufacturers, they say 200f max).
My motor rarely gets past half that on the glory, but i havent given it a hard time in the middle of summer yet, im not expecting issues though. The smaller mid drive motors are pulling half the amps of a big hub motor like you're used to, mine with the heatsink run cool most of the time. Extended climbs and high speed running will bring temps up, but its never been "hot" yet.
Sounds like one of these might be more suitable for you John :)
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/au/zero-fx
it sounds like you'll reach the limits of any electric bicycle sooner or later, theres only so much you can do with a couple of KW, if you're flogging it constantly for maximum performance you'll probably have temp problems, chain and gears breaking etc. I folded first gear on the stock gear cluster one of my first rides, ive since upgraded to a solid DH gear but it made me realize that the drivetrain is now the weakest link, and i cant just thrash it up anything, its still just a bicycle.
I dint want to put you off, I still think the AFT is as good an ebike setup as you'll get, but it sounds like you might need more. This has the power of a 50-60cc motorbike. Its awesome 'for a bike'. It'll climb better than your hub, but it might be dissapointing overall if you're already used to big power. Your going to have less power but the gears to take advantage if it.
 
That's interesting Dypso the 48v AFT kit is on the limit of a downhill bike gear system. If that's that case then their is no use going with a larger more powerfull motor like the GNG/LR . Becuase if you can't use that power without destroying the gear system then all you are doing is carying around dead weight in the copper mass of a larger motor. Let alone the LR big block ! i bet most people will instead use this big block direct to the rear wheel since the gear system won't handle the torque, which defeats the whole gear multiplaction benefit of mid drive. So it seems these 48v ~2kw mid drives hit the sweet spot on normal bike drive systems.
 
I would think its more then just the rear cluster. All mountain bike parts would be designed for a similar peak power so all things in the system will most likely fail in similar power level i.e bike Chains, Cluster, freewheel would all be designed for similar power on a mountain bike. The other thing is the rear swing arm is designed for a certain amount of load and if you put in too much you will get swing arm flex and skipping gears above a certain power level.
 
The frame on a DH bike should be able to handle it without flex I think, mines pretty chunky. But the skinny sprockets and chains will limit how much power you can put through it. All the serious high KW electric bikes I've seen are running fatter chains and sprockets, direct drive.
I haven't researched it because I'm happy with my current setup, but I think a 3 speed cluster or some such, with heavier 1/8 or 3/16 bmx chains and fat 1/8 or 3/16 sprockets would be necessary for any more power, and I don't know what you'd do for a gear derailler. Like I said though I haven't looked into it, but my experience with a 9sp and 3/32 chain tells me that it's just barely enough for 1680-2400w systems, using the toughest gearset I could find (an older solid gear sram pg970dh and steel front sprockets and strongest 9sp chain), and the stock gears were inadequate and chain stretched like crazy.
A LR kit is running a heavy duty wider sprocket and super strong gokart chain I think (it's been a while since I looked), so trying to then put that power through a standard drivetrain with half the size chain etc probably won't last long.
I'm not saying that as facts though, just my opinion from my experiences.
With the upgraded cluster, quality chain, and 1/8 bmx chain from the main drive (1/8 is now standard on the 1680w kits, I checked with AFT before buying one), the driveline has been flawless with the AFT power, but I don't think it'd handle too much more, or too heavy handed a riding style. (or maybe I just had a dud gear? but I doubt it).
 
Hi Dypso
Yes, from my experience, your figures about the chains and power are correct....
As you know, I run an 1/8 chain with a LH separated drive (not thru the gears).
I push frequent 4-5000+ watts thru it, If there aren't issues with the susp. travel and chainline, HQ 1/8 chain can handle these power rates without fail...but they stretch quickly. Of course, bigger chain should be better (#219) but there isn't room in my frame for a wider chain with 2.5+ tires, and I need a front freewheel at the middrive output, that isn't easy to get or mod, for non-bike chains. These chains (or true motorbike ones) are the best for non pedal e-MXbikes...

I think that one thing to keep in mind is the speed of the chain and the torque value at the middrive output, after the primary reduction. Take 2 multistage transmissions, with the same total reduction factor but with an huge difference in the diameter of the final driven sprocket, than push thru them the same amount of true power: the 2 chains and final reduction assemblies (drive and driven sprockets/axles/bearings), although same models and subjected to the same watts, will not have the same kind of wear.....

Even if the power in question (~2000w) is acknowledged as the ~max power you can deliver to the standard derailleur system, continuously and reliably, I've seen, here on ES, some build delivering 6000+watts thru it.
However, if it's true that we have some great performance proof and video of these few high power thru the gears builds,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcyKhL6sb4A
We have not as much info about the Mileage and enduro offroad reliability they get.
 
Dypsomaniart: The aft is pretty quiet. It's definitely not silent, but the noise levels with all the sound shrouds is comparable to chunky tire road noise. Its noisier under load on climbs, but very quiet just cruising.
Its hard to explain the noise level. I've caught up and tailed road bikes, and they've had no idea it was electric,
Click to expand...

No wounder you are happy with the noise, I was reading on the AFT website that with all their upgrades the kit is 10DBA or 50% quieter then I guess similar motor cyclone or Ego kit bikes. That's pretty cool if that is true because they also mention that it also comes with no loss of efficiency that belt drive and helical gear reductions cause on the bafang BBs02 and GNG type kits.

I guess it's also good to have some small amount of noise, to make it easy to hear the RPM and change gears correctly. If the motor/gearreduction was dead silent how would you know when to change gears with no Tacometer ?
 
Hey Drew, yeah the weather is improving slowly. I took the camera off again so I could put my light back on my helmet- still only an hour or so of daylight after work.
heres a vid of the noise levels of the AFT for those interested:

I recorded it tonight with my iphone taped (badly) to the handlebars. It sounds a little louder than in real life to me, but my ears get a little more wind noise, and my head is not mounted on the bars...
It should give a reasonable indication though of the noise under acceleration and idling along once up to speed.
*edit- i stopped the video where i did because from about 30kmh up all you can hear is wind noise*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAAKol-tsZ0&feature=youtu.be

I'll hopefully head up to the hills again for some good trails worthy of recording soon. I've just been doing night rides and the odd quick squirt on the weekends, as it always seems to be either raining or I have something else I have to do instead on the weekends lately..
 
Nice to hear some actual ebike noise on a video, I reckon it sounds cool too :)

But to me the gear shifting is actually louder than the motor!

I'm looking forward to Formula E electric race car series (http://www.fiaformulae.com/) to see what they sound like...
 
Yeah the camera was right next to the shifter basically. It helps give a reference for actual noise levels though, its not a particularly noisy shifter :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

R
    • Like
A critique of mid-drive riding recommendations (and hub drive criticisms)
Replies
15
Views
5,562
Bullfrog
B
H
Giant DH Comp (Team) Mid Drive?
Replies
1
Views
357
Manbeer
M
mxlemming
Giant Trance Belt drive with MESC @ few kW
2
Replies
39
Views
4,548
Barncat
B
D
Giant Trance - compatible with conversion?
Replies
3
Views
1,454
torker
T
ebbsocalMTB
Santa Cruz Cham-E-leon (mk7) - Mid Drive Conversion
Replies
21
Views
2,949
COAR
C
Back
Top