Another benefit of moto wheels on ebikes

[John in CR]

After 20 months of riding with motorcycle tires I got my first flat. Actually the tire on this new motor had a leak when I installed it. I think it was because I tightened the nut on the valve stem that I later learned you're not supposed to do. The tire was such a bear to get on that instead of fixing it I tried Slime which seems to work, though the tire needs air periodically. This morning it felt a bit mushy while out for errands, so I checked it when I got home and it had 0 pressure. ie I just did a 10 mile ride at speeds up to 50mph on a flat tire. It turns out that this low profile tire is so stiff that even with a flat it will get you home. I sit on it with 0 pressure and it doesn't even bulge at the sides. Let's see someone do that with a bike tire. 8)

John

 

[rebelpilot]

I want some!
This sounds like a good way to improve safety, reliabilty and performance. Details would be appreciated.
What rims and tires are able to fit a bicycle frame?

BTW my ekart has 0 pressure in all four tires (the valves are installed, but air pressure is routinely equalized), this helps compensate for the lack of suspension. Doesn't affect the handling at all in that application, just improves ride comfort.

 

[beast775]

thats great,some of my antique bikes have low profile bias ply tires and you can ride them flat,but not at 50 mph.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

WOw, that is impressive, but I'd really hate to see what happens if that slime got loose at those speeds!

Are these slicks? I'd also love to hear what combo of rims/tires you're using!

 

[FMB42]

Ya, running motorcycle tire/rim assemblies are the way to go for high speed e-biking IMO.

It wasn't all too uncommon for us to ride our 80 - 125cc class dirt/MX bikes "home" with a flat but "still on the bead" rear tire (we'd ride home while "sitting on the forward part of the fuel tank). Nor was it all that uncommon to finish a "heat" with a flat rear tire (as long as the tire didn't come off the rim enough to jam the wheel up). But then again, these machines almost always had rim locks...

I sure can't say the same for any flat that I've ever had on any of the MBs I've owned.

 

[John in CR]

That's the first time I've ever had a flat on a motorcycle tire, including 8yrs of moto commuting, so I didn't know that riding on one was typical.

The tire is a cheap street tread tire, Vee Rubber 90/80-14 59L. It's pretty low profile, so the OD works out to 18.5". The one on my daily rider is more of a mixed use tire that is somewhat knobby and it's a 19.5" diameter now, though it was very close to 20" when new. It has somewhere between 7500 and 10k miles, and in 20 months it's needed the air topped off twice. The rims are just the 14" steel moto rims that came with the motors. The other identical motors I have came with 17" moto rims that work out to about 24" OD wheels depending on the tire. I do have a 16" rim that I'm going to swap out and for some reason the 16" moto tires, 1 knobby and 1 nice Pirelli knockoff, I got are much more bike-like in profile and width, and those work out to just above a 20" tire. The rubber isn't like bike tires though, thick and tough, so none of that silliness you guys put up with using bike tire, pinch flats, worrying about a little glass, etc.

You high speed or heavy load guys, don't forget motorcycle tires are tested and rated, and must be DOT approved. Bike tires have nothing in the way of testing or ratings.

Another benefit is spokes. Bike spokes are a joke in comparison to motorcycle spokes. I adjusted the spokes on my daily rider in August for the first time in 19 months. The only reason I had to do so was because the 4th or 5th time I went to take off forgetting to take the chain off that was looped through the hubmotor wheel, I did it harder than previous times and the wheel needed some truing. Just imagine what would happen with bicycle spokes...I wouldn't just unlock the chain and ride home plus another couple of weeks before attending to a slight issue that's for sure.

The world needs to be taken over by emopeds. Leave the ebikes to the pedalists who need help up hills or don't want to get sweaty, and they can have the sidewalks and bicycle paths as far as I'm concerned. No, a good emoped looks nothing like those ridiculous crappy e-scooters with their useless removable pedals and undersized motors which make them all but useless on the street.

Also, what's with the whining about lack of infrastructure by the same people crying "Oh no you can't regulate us with vehicle lighting, licensing and registration requirements."? Of course we all want freedom with the only rule being common sense, and no one wants to pay fees, but that's simply not realistic, fair, or safe, because like it or not we ride a type of motor vehicle. We should all be willing to pay our share for the infrastructure we want and need. Sure it requires a lot less than for a car or truck, since I've yet to see and ebike that would create any potholes, and we a far smaller and lighter, so the use taxes should be levied accordingly.

 

[oatnet]

Maxxis Hookworms.

Unlike your tire they will bulge, but are very ridable. I've ridden ones I forgot to fill up after mounting the tire and not noticed. More recently, I dug out one of my old builds that had been sitting for a year or so. After commuting on it for a few weeks, I was filling up the tires on my wife's ICE, thought I would top off this bike while i was at it - and discovered the back tire was at 18lbs PSI. I promptly filled it up, and my wh/m dramatically increased but road feel was about the same.

I seem to remember reading a few posts about folks trail-riding their flat hookworms home, even one on a recumbent.

 

[FMB42]

Maxxis Hookworms...I've been mulling over these for a future build. I think you've just made my decision.

Thanks for the tip oatnet.

 

[veloman]

I seem to remember reading a few posts about folks trail-riding their flat hookworms home, even one on a recumbent.

Pish posh! I've taken my road racer on singletrack with those 700x23 120psi slick tires. You just got to know how to ride.... anyone remember the Lance commercial where he is off roading with mtn bikers on his road bike?

And there's this crazy mad skill trials guy on youtube, he's outfitted like a road weenie, but does insane stuff on his roadie. I'll try to find it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z1fSpZNXhU


But back to the OT, that's a great thing, having a tire you can ride flat without noticing!

 

[John in CR]

You guys can talk up some expensive bike tires all you want, but there's 0% chance 250lb me + 23lb motor is making it home on any flat bicycle tire unless I'm off the bike pushing it or doing some kind of unicycle trick on the front wheel, and I have no interest in falling off enough to learn how to do that. A bike tire won't fit my rims anyway.

 

[johnrobholmes]

I gotta agree here. My 20mph ebikes all have bicycle tires. My 30+mph ebikes are all running 16" or 17" rims and DOT rated tires. Trailwing TW9s, Pirelli ML 75s, and Gazelles are the current ones in service. I just don't trust any bicycle tires except Hookworms and some of the downhill carcasses. I'm always nervous about peeling them off or busting them out on a hard hit. Potholes at 30mph aint no joke when you don't see them coming.

 

[oatnet]

Maxxis Hookworms...I've been mulling over these for a future build. I think you've just made my decision.

Thanks for the tip oatnet.

You will love how the tread wraps around in a smooth curve so you can lean it way over without falling off the edge of the tread. I have only used it in urban environments.

However, the thanks belong to OG E:S member xyster who inspired me to try hookies, also to double up the lined tires with panaracer soft Kevlar liner:
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=11244

The thickest tube wall I could find was the Kenda Downhill 2.25mm:
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=17342

Then I found that a wide rim (current fave 38mm Alex dx-32) spread the tire into a even better contact patch. I have not had a flat yet with this combo with @14k miles, mixed among many bikes, much of that milage at 40-45mph, and that is the edge if where I felt safe on an ebike; I no longer endorse riding ebikes at anything approaching those speeds, and your terrain my be tougher than mine. John in CR with the speeds you pulling I too prefer to have motorcycle tires too. In fact, I prefer to have the whole motorcycle. Lol:: The Vectrix really changed my perspective on ebikes and speed, I don't feel the need to press the envelope any more because I already have a machine built for that duty cycle.

-JD

 

[John in CR]

I'm not endorsing anything, however, if you're forced to ride on 2 lane roads with no bike lane or even a shoulder, then I'm confident that you're safer matching the speed of traffic so you can take your whole lane and don't have people passing you constantly that you must trust to go around you. Of course the risk in the event of an accident is higher at the higher speed, but no different than on a motorcycle. I didn't feel safe at 30mph on a regular mountain bike made electric, so I stretched the wheelbase by 18" and lowered the seat. I've got disc brake front and drum+regen braking on the rear, so my only remaining weak link is the bicycle tire on front. With a longer wheelbase, larger diameter tires, more passenger space, more cargo capacity, less than half the weight, higher top speed, better acceleration, more range, and 1/5th the cost I think my daily rider stacks up pretty well against a Vetrix, especially since it's still legally a bike where I live, and electric scooters aren't sold here anyway.

John

 

[JohnT818]

This is good to know, but is it difficult to mount motorcycle rims on a bicycle frame and fork? Is much fabrication necessary? I assume you're not talking about lacing motorcycle rims onto bicycle hubs. I'd imagine it's tough finding rims narrow enough for a bicycle frame and fork. You must be running motorcycle disc brakes or drums, too, right?

If there's already a thread on this somewhere, please direct me.

Thanks!

 

[johnrobholmes]

We are talking about motorcycle rims on bicycle hubs. More specifically, electric hubs. I am comfortable with a 20" bmx rim for the non hub motor, with a 16" motorcycle tire on it.


16" moto in the back (bmx rim for now), 17" in the front

 

[John in CR]

JohnRob,

Nice EBMX. Did you modify that head tube angle? I don't recall seeing a BMX frame with one that slack.

 

[johnrobholmes]

Nope, that is stock and right on the money for how it is intended. It is actually a dual slalom/ dirt jump frame made for MTB sized wheels.

 

[John in CR]

Nope, that is stock and right on the money for how it is intended. It is actually a dual slalom/ dirt jump frame made for MTB sized wheels.

That's essentially what I want to build from scratch, just in a larger form, and instead of tubing, use flat steel to make a triangle that forms a battery compartment that holds a 1.5kwh pack. Add a Thudbuster and I can get away without rear suspension for a lightweight old guy's EBMX. 8)

John

 

[JohnT818]

We are talking about motorcycle rims on bicycle hubs. More specifically, electric hubs. I am comfortable with a 20" bmx rim for the non hub motor, with a 16" motorcycle tire on it.

16" moto in the back (bmx rim for now), 17" in the front

Of course! Makes sense. And with disc brakes, you don't need to worry about clearing rim brakes.

Sorry about my noobiness. I don't know much about bicycle parts and not much more about motorcycle parts.

So, it looks like you had no trouble clearing your forks and frame. If I were considering a build with motorcycle tires, would I need to worry much about clearance or would most bicycles have enough clearance for some kind of decent DOT tires. I'm leaning toward cruiser, MTB, BMX, or recumbent. I would guess that at least the first three would tend to have more clearance than road bikes.

Thanks!

 

[johnrobholmes]

Most will have plenty of clearance for 16" tires, especially 2.25s. 2.5s or 3.0s may not fit.