Any College drop outs on ES? Care to narrate?

yep, sophomore classes in EE are the hardest. i don't think i woulda cut it if i had to start at the bottom and have to take circuits. gotta be the hardest, which is why they say that is the cutting class. problem is, you never use a bit of it in reality. all the circuit design is either digital or cad based with SPICE.

don't sweat failing either, i failed a buncha classes. my first semester in eletonics design, the junior level course, i failed because i could not get the project finished by the end of the semester, and then not even over the christmas holiday.

the project was to build an autoranging voltmeter from parts, no msi even, just some matched op amps for the most integrated parts, and flip flops for logic. i bread boarded it and wirewrapped it, did not work, unwrapped and rewirewrapped 8 times over 3 weeks but it did not work until the next semester, too late, FFFFFFFF!!! i did ok on the second semester when we could use an 8088 for logic to build a similar autoranging meter, but i always have that to remember, wasted a month of my life for nothing. it was the first thing on my transcript i pointed to when i went to colorado and entered grad school in EE. it never meant a thing, since it turned out i had studied solid state here in portland from the guy who wrote the book, and had been the major professor of the department head who was interviewing me when he had been a Rhodes' scholar at oxford. it really is a small world when you get there.

you can ignore the bullshit about finding menial labor so that you can appreciate why you have to work hard at school. that is just from people who never took circuits. they have no idea how hard it is. plus there are no jobs out there and wouldn't you feel guilty about taking another poor guys work if that was all he could do? you know you can do better, it is just winter time depression getting to you and of course no free time.

if you haven't started drinking hard by now, you kinda got a head start on the rest of us anyway. pot won't make any difference no matter what. but you never know, smoking pot and taking acid is what got steve jobs to that level he performed at. just keep plugging away.
 
Well, given your revelation, I would have to say ease off on the alcohlol, if any. I just never see it help any of the manic depressives I've known. The worst one drank herself to an early death.

In my youth, my issue was more like I was simply manic all the time. If I ever got close to swinging to the other side, it was quickly cured by scaring the shit out of myself rock climbing or snow skiing or motorcycle riding. Honestly though, I never really got depressed even though I had reasons to at times. The 45 days in sophmore year when my diet consisted entirely of apples from an orchard I had a job in comes to mind. The U had a funky deal for student jobs then. Work 45 days till the first payday!

Anyway, for a manic manic as I was, pot was definitely the drug of choice. It was part of the routine to do one bong hit before an exam. Not two, just one. Took the edge off so I could concentrate. Taking any kind of stimulant to study never worked for me, I'd just bounce off the walls all night instead of study. I finally calmed down at about 35.

But even with difficulties, whatever they are go as far as you can. I graduated feeling I had really wasted 4 years just to please my dad with a degree. It was 1980, and at least locally, a much worse economy than now. Barely made a dime till the 90's. But when the economy finally got moving, I was mentaly ready to make more money than my peers with just high school. I'd found the pond at last, where I could be the big fish.
 
School was never difficult for me, never failed a course, took advanced math, chem and phy just in case i wanted to to go university but was completely undecided... ended up taking a 10 month course in college and learned how to operate a computer ( Network Administration and Integration.. anyone remember Novell ? )

Finished college, broke, more than broke, in debt, no job openings in my field i took the first thing available, customer service in a call centre.... that first year at the job was the hardest thing i've done in my life, litterally almost offed myself from stress... :shock: ... but time passed and things got better. That's how life goes for most of us.. some hard times and some not so hard times but you just have to stick with it and do the best you can do.

Anti-anxiety drugs are far too common these days, i am still in a call centre but have moved up to Tech Support so not nearly as much bullshit to deal with ( but i still have my days ) there are like 1/3 of the workers here on various types of meds to control anx and stress.. my personal opinion on that is not important but i think people need to learn how to deal with stress instead of numbing it out with pills.. serves you better down the line ( there are exceptions of course ) .. i agree with dogman on this aspect, an occasional bong can be a good thing in times of need, imo, far less dangerous than most pills. :D

If you are still in school and living at home, it's early days, dont give up, nothing wrong with going to work for a while and going back to education later on in life, it's an eye opener sometimes and a good motivation to earn more money at a better job once you have hands on experience at a crappy job.. I worked one season as a lumberjack, that was enough to convince me that borrowing money for college was a worthy investment.
 
Yes, school is tough! Some have it easier, but most have to plain old work really hard to make it through, and "where the rubber meets the road"- studying, concentrating and sticking with it is truly harder for some than others. It was pretty tough for me, it sounds like it's pretty tough for you.

Knowing, deep down, gut feeling why you're there is useful. That's what a mediocre job will give you- particularly the hopeless feeling- well WTF can I do to make my life better from here feeling. If you're not convinced that finishing the degree program is the most important thing in your life you should figure out how to convince yourself of that. That was something I was missing while at uni. Always thought my latest idea was more important than anything else, justified a lot of distraction.

And then there are the "nuts and bolts" ways to make it work better. Get help- tutoring, study groups, all these tried-and-true sorts of things. Do them. 100% of the time I did better in classes that I worked with others on outside of class. If illness or medication are truly causing problems, seriously pursue medical help to fix it. Sounds like there's also some agreement 'round here that smoking some weed might fit into this category as well. I couldn't tell you myself. :wink:

When I go back to university I expect it to be just as hard as last time. It won't have changed. The only thing that makes it different is me, I have to trust that I've changed in such a way to make me able to just do it. Try to be sensitive to whether you're getting somewhere, or stuck. If you're stuck, seriously consider cutting your losses and making some changes- do something completely different until the next step in the path becomes clear. It's not failure, sometimes its the best thing you can do. You're young, there's time to work it out.
 
i rarely smoked pot when i was taking hard courses, just made it even harder, but i was never a big smoker anyway.

but i was never a good student either, just lucky to get through it. i would recommend you just study the stuff you wanna learn, figure out how to make a living out of it later. i always figured if i was not failing at something, i wasn't going after a high enuff target. but like i said, i skipped the hard stuff. circuits is hard, yet never used in real life for a job. just for this kinda stuff where you are bread boarding stuff. and leave the really hard stuff for the braniacs anyway.
 
The reason I turned to pot was ritalin didn't exist, ADD was not a known disease, but I had it. It was helpful when I was doing it in small quantites, then harmful when I was very stoned. Back in the day, you had to smoke half an ounce to get much of a buzz on.

The main point I wanted to make was that alcohol is really destructive to manic depressives.
 
Ypedal said:
( Network Administration and Integration.. anyone remember Novell ? )

Do I! :lol: I built my career on Novell Netware, got involved in its infancy, later became a CNE, Master CNE, and Enterprise CNE, ended up as a staff consultant and got flown all over the world designing and building networks for fortune 100 companies. Eventually I got tired of 80-90-100 hour weeks, so I finally agreed to let one of our clients hire me and I hope to retire here soon. A few years later they cut everything over to Windows NT, and I haven't touched Novell since. :cry: I still miss it, a far superior network OS, failed because it didn't have the marketing savvy of Micro$oft.

-JD
 
Math is not my strong suit, so I will digress...

I was talking to a friend at Maker Faire about math & science and he said advanced-algebra was really tough for him... but once he slogged through and got into calculus, it was like a door to another world opened. Physics became a bit of a passion for him. Now he builds exhibits for science museums around the world, helping people learn science by playing.

Related, in today's news:
"Why Science Majors Change Their Minds " NYT
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/education/edlife/why-science-majors-change-their-mind-its-just-so-darn-hard.html
 
I have eight years of college but only two-year degree to show for it. Originally double-majored in both Art & Engineering. After two years of undergraduate I quit college the first time and moved to San Jose, CA where I selected and paid for rapid training from a technical school where I received a cert on Electromechanical Design and put myself into the Engineering field as a Jr. Applications Engineer. After three years of that I went to a local JC to finish a BSME transfer program. Drafting instructor of the program insisted that I take two f$%#king years of drafting. WFT man! I'm already designing gloveboxes for handling plutonium for the DoE and he wants me to do drafting all over again?!? What could he possibly teach me? I started challenging every course after that and made great progress but the Dean wouldn't let me off the hook on the drafting requirement: I had to go back and deal with this imbecile. Finally he relented and said if I took a year out and get an AA in Drafting Technology he’d wave all but the two last drafting classes. FM! I challenged the AA requirements and got out of many, but ended up having to take two or three that wouldn’t count towards my BS; I’d have to repeat those again at UC Berkeley (my planned destination).

So I end up sitting in this stupid mechanical drafting class (first of two) punching out all the work at my normal production level and pulled an A naturally. Now it's the last quarter: The last drafting class is the “design” class – whooo, like I’ve only been designing for three @#$#% years. On the first night, idiot instructor says:

  • “This is your final course; all your two years of college drafting will be applied towards the design of a product. If you design the product on CAD I’ll raise your letter-grade by one. If you build a scale model, I’ll raise your letter-grade by one. Last year we designed a coffee grinder.”
I could tell he was real proud of that…

  • “…and the year before we designed a pencil sharpener.”
Wow, what a challenge z z z

  • “This year” (and this is when he looks right over at me) “we’re going to design… a, an Electric-powered 3-Wheel Handicap vehicle.”
That got my attention! I couldn’t believe it; let’s design something that’s like – TEN TIMES more complicated that a pencil sharpener! I go back to work and discuss the project with my pal and fellow designer at work (LLNL) and we are laughing about it. But then my buddy offers up that he found a 3-wheel Schwinn bicycle in the field behind his house – and that got us talking about “hey wouldn’t it be great to build that out as an electric and cruise around the Lab chasing rabbits…” when the bolt of inspiration dawns on us at the same moment: “What do we do for a living? We create Product!” My buddy and I then cook up plans to build the contraption that afternoon, and in that evening I hit up the instructor about doing it on CAD and building a full-scale working model and driving it into class on the due date – 9 weeks out. He agrees (this is the short version of this story).

Weeks go by; I build the thing – it looks awesome. I drive it into class and get my A. Dean puts me on the Honor Roll. A few weeks later the Veteran’s Administration in their glacial pace (read: took a whole year to review my change of program from BS to AA) ruled against the Junior College and said that I did not have to take the drafting courses because I had already taken them at an accredited technical campus, and then went on to demand that the school give me 33 units of credit at 4.0 because I had graduated from the same technical school with the highest GPA that school had ever given.

Wow was that a waste of a year! :x

Wait a minute, it gets better: The VA went on to deny me further fiscal support of my pursuit to seek a BS degree because I could only declare my degree intentions TWICE. So taking the AA totally screwed me out of two more years of academic assistance which I earned from service to my country. How nice.

I continued on my own taking night school working towards my BS, but after a year I realized I am already doing Engineering Design, so I switched and began taking MBA courses which was enjoyable for about another year or two, and sneaking in some fun classes like 3 quarters worth of History of Western Civilization. Eventually though I figured out how to train myself on the job in whatever I needed to accomplish, and quit school. Actually I finished the quarter and never went back.

Unfortunately not having a 4-year degree makes it more difficult to land a full-time job, particularly at Microsoft. I’ve been a contractor there on and off for 18 years. I stopped interviewing for FTE a couple of years ago; there is nothing the company can offer me and they will never give me an architect’s position even though I’ve been architecting software for 20 years. The best that I can do is to land jobs outside MSFT where I’m the boss, the lead, the Dude ~ and that’s when it gets real fun and creative.

College didn’t work out for me cos I am a rebel; I do not kowtow to mediocrity in positions of power, and perceive that college is often filled with bloated tenured figureheads. I recall some years later moving to Austin and going to UT to apply using my transfer program (once again I got the bright idea that this would be a good thang). For whatever reason I had to go interview with the Director of ME’s assistant to see if I qualified for the program. I walk into the room: The boot-lickin’ toady has his feet up on the desk, swattin’ flies with a student application in his hand (his desk was covered with them), and he made the mistake of asking “what makes yew think yer goood enough for the University of Texas Mechanical Engineering Program?” <swat fly; miss>.

I can’t quite remember exactly how I went about phrasing it to him. I think it was somewhere between finishing the story of how that 3-wheel electric handicap vehicle got me the job at Worlds of Wonder where I went on to design the LazerTag Rifle… sequel to the most popular toy in the history of the country, or that I had won a three year contract with Sandia National Laboratories building high-speed CAD workstations, or that I had started two engineering companies in the last 5 years, and really… I only want the degree to wipe my ass so I can say “I’ve done it”. At that point I kicked his feet off the desk and told him “Get your feet off the desk, stop swatting flies with applications…” (I think it was mine) “and sit straight when you talk to me cos I WORK FOR A LIVING!

At that point I decided I didn’t need the degree and the phony poser horseshit that went with it. I walked over and opened the door, gestured to the next victim in line and said “You’re next!” and promptly left the building never to return.

It isn’t so much that I dropped out, as much as I just don’t give a shit. If someone can’t figure out that I’m justly qualified from reading my curriculum vitæ, they’re already in trouble and I want no part of it.

If you can put up with it though, stick it out through college: By and large it does open more doors sooner.
Another unintentional novella from KF

edit: fixed typo
 
Awesome story, KF.

.....as I literally am considering going back to college to get a second BS, this time in ME or CE..... at UT Austin. :lol:
 
Yeah seriously....nice one KF. Has anyone considered changing majors between an engineering degree and a technology degree? My understanding from some classmates is that some ee tech graduates see $80k salary right out of school.... And my advisor says their title is the same--engineer.
 
if i were looking at the future, it would be in petroleum engineering since that's where the jobs will be, and they have the highest starting salaries too.

i outrank the kingfish, from graduating HS in 1964 until my MS physics in 1980. 16 years, longer than i lasted at working.

never used a bit of it at work. we had to make it up as we went along developing the process steps to make the ICs. we led the equipment manufacturers, and much of current silicide technology started with our group and the current art of planarization of the intermediate oxides is from what i developed, and is part of all the IC manufacturing processes worldwide now.
 
KF's story tops my list of best ever ES post (2nd one is LFP's encounter with Mustang and Camaro guy from some years ago).

I had plenty of experiences like KF's with narrow minded types. In one early assignment we were to design a garage floor engine crane. I did my design so there were no bending moments anywhere, and thus was able to make it much lighter. The prof must have had it in the back of her head for this assignment to evaluate if we could calculate bending moments and material stresses from these (though it was not part of the assignment requirement). I got a low assignment mark and my only low course grade from that school. I transferred to a higher ranked school the next year.

To Hillzofvalp and others in a similar situation: Hang in there. What would you gain from dropping out in the middle of the semester? If you can handle the courses you're registered for just bite in and do it. Just another month of the semester to go now, so do it even if it means a bit of suffering. If your current load is just too much, figure out what set of it you can handle and focus all energy on those courses, and drop some others.

For next semester talk to other students and figure out which courses and profs are worthwhile. For me it took 4 years of college before I figured out that the same course taught by two different prof's could be like night and day. Navigate course/prof choices wisely to maximize learning and avoid minefields. Also if the school/program you're in is a poor match Dec is the time to consider transfers and apply for other schools. I would agree with others that EE, MechE, Physics and similar are good. New stuff such as games programmer, environmental engineering should be scrutinized before committing. These programs can be too new to yet have any quality and consistency. I'd even consider CS, (my own field of lately) to be lacking in the fundamentals you learn in e.g. EE, MechE, Physics. Practical skills are useful too. What is an EE who cannot solder? Or an ME who have never set foot in a machine shop? These courses are not necessarily part of the regular curriculum, but I managed to sign up for a shop class, then got license/access to use the student machine shop at the Univ. Very useful for my projects.

Bottom line though is you are learning for yourself and by yourself. KF did it in an unusual way. Some are all self taught, but most benefit from the structure of college. One wise prof put it this way:
As fundamental principle, I think that what I do in the classroom is far less important than what the students themselves do, in and out of class. The most important facets of my courses are what I require the students to do, the set of activities and assignments that I give to the students.
http://www.carroll.edu/kcline/TeachingPhilosophy.html
 
hillzofvalp said:
I wonder if there are any linear algebra savvy people on ES....

Dude linear algebra was my lowest score in college D+. The concepts are fairly simple and straighforward, yet when you try to test the test as if you were a computer, somehow simple adding becomes very difficult.

I just took the next level of linear algebra in grad school and it was no easier. Still useful though. Just get through it. If you get a D+ you still learn alot.

Engineering school has a great way of making people completely jaded and forget the entire reason they're doing it. By the end everyone seems to just want a job and doesn't care. It doesn't have to be true. It took me like 6 months after college to get un-jaded.

Do yourself a favor and don't loose track of how much you love electronics. Everything your learning is relevant, it's just crammed in.

They really need to revamp engineering school. If I ever strike it rich, Ill start a modern engineering school.

Let me know if you need any eigenhelp ;)



p.s. any moron that says they never used a bit of their engineering school at work, is an idiot, and should be sent to fed the wolves in the marketing (read exploitation) department.
 
grindz145 said:
Dude linear algebra was my lowest score in college D+. The concepts are fairly simple and straighforward, yet when you try to test the test as if you were a computer, somehow simple adding becomes very difficult.

I just took the next level of linear algebra in grad school and it was no easier. Still useful though. Just get through it. If you get a D+ you still learn alot.

Engineering school has a great way of making people completely jaded and forget the entire reason they're doing it. By the end everyone seems to just want a job and doesn't care. It doesn't have to be true. It took me like 6 months after college to get un-jaded.

Do yourself a favor and don't loose track of how much you love electronics. Everything your learning is relevant, it's just crammed in.

They really need to revamp engineering school. If I ever strike it rich, Ill start a modern engineering school.

Let me know if you need any eigenhelp ;)



p.s. any moron that says they never used a bit of their engineering school at work, is an idiot, and should be sent to fed the wolves in the marketing (read exploitation) department.

Thanks grindz

I think this opened my eyes or enlightened me on the notion that all engineers have to have perfect grades, but I'm not using this as an excuse to fail. Don't get me wrong, I might not get the best grades in school, but I am learning stuff I don't know.

I have a friend that is an EE pursuing his phd and one of my professors which I also worked for always told me that grades don't matter. Anyone can be booksmart but you can be dumb as a doorknob when you are not in the surrounding of school. What matters is the skills you have along with the booksmarts. This makes sense to me but I understand the fact that the books is what will help me along in what skills I have now.
 
If you don't want to read the whole thing, skip to the last point below.

- College isn't for everybody, but most people will probably benefit by going.
Surely there are many people that don't end up doing stuff that they learned in school, but somehow one way or another, it led them to where they're at (assuming that's a good place).

- Unless you've found something you want to do instead, stick with school.
Being difficult isn't a reason to quit, although....(more on that later). If employment is your goal (as opposed to starting a company of some sort or whatever else), unfortunately a 4 year college degree at the very least is probably your best bet in landing you a job. Just as college isn't for everyone. Jobs aren't for everyone either. My dad said something kinda weird that stuck with me, "Only work as hard as you want to." You gotta be honest with yourself though and realize the consequences of the choices you make. There's nothing wrong with going through college for the motion while thinking and considering other undertakings. When you discover that thing worth leaving college for, then do it. Until then, stick with the curriculum.

- You don't want to quit college b/c it's too hard.
You'll learn later that there are many more things even more difficult than college and you'll wish you went through it b/c it after all, really was a breeze. A challenge can sometimes be a good thing. You don't want to be bored doing easy stuff. May not seem like the case now, but it will later.

- Don't stay in EE just b/c you have been.
I studied architecture through a professional 5 year program at USC (University of Spoiled Children, Second Choice, blah blah, I know). We have a 50% dropout rate after the first year. This can be a good thing and no it's not just to weed people out and leave space only for the good people. Part of that is a crock of @#@#$. Sometimes it's best to leave if it's not for you. When 3rd year came around, some people were still considering switching majors. I for one, think they should have switched and gotten into something they really wanted to do. Instead, they stuck with it b/c it was the manly thing to do and they didn't want to wuss out. They thought if they stopped continuing architecture and pursued something else after 3 years, it would be a 3 year loss. I think of it the other way around. If they don't leave the program, then it's not only a future 2 year waste (to complete the program), but at the end, you're still stuck with something you dont' really want and even more time will be wasted. If it's really not for you, leave. If it is, stick with it. No one's going to call you a wuss for leaving and if they do, screw it. It's your life. You should know yourself better than other people who are judging you do.

- Good luck.
I interviewed a bunch of so-called successful folks for a book I was writing and the one thing I learned is that many of the people got to where they're at not necessarily by aiming for it. Their success was actually a side track. They were aiming for goal A and ended up at B which lead them to "success" (define what that is for yourself. It's not always financial). Unless you have your eye on A, you may never discover B. Some people waste their time bypassing A looking for B directly. That usually doesn't work. So it's okay that you're pursuing A knowing it's not the "perfect" scenario. It doesn't mean you'll stick with it forever. It's just your stepping stone to get to the unknown B. Speaking of forever....

- Nothing is permanent.
That's obviously a figure of speech. Don't be scared to get into something b/c you think it's a lifelong commitment. My point is that you don't need to decide now what you'll do "for the rest of your life." I hear that too often, "I don't know what I want to do for the rest of my life." You're not supposed to know! Things change all the time as we've already seen from other people's posts. Aim for goal A and if B comes along, think strongly about it. It takes some smarts and paying attention to know that B is there waiting for you. It's not always going to come bite you in the arse identifying itself as B. Ditching goal A for B doesn't mean you've given up. You just have a different goal. It's okay to change. You're not wussing out....or are you? Only you can be honest with yourself on that one. The last thing you want to do is get out of EE b/c it's too hard and not have any idea where you want to go. If you already have an idea, switch. If you don't stick with it until you do. You gotta be productive. EE might be your goal A towards a goal B. Remember, you don't foresee B. It just comes along while you're pursuing A.

You can use your major in many different ways
Studying architecture obviously requires learning CAD these days. You can work at an architecture firm as a CAD monkey making $16/hr or work for a contractor CADing mechanical systems and make $100/hr with the same degree. Literally. While I was a "special inspector" (fancy name for concrete shoveler) making almost nothing, that's when I learned the guys doing cad for mechanical systems got paid the big bucks. I was told learning to do that after already knowing CAD is 2 years. Two years isn't bad to increase your wages by over 6x.

If you go into any hospital, above the ceiling is about 9-12ft of stuff normal people don't see: Plumbing, structure, electrical wiring, data cabling, HVAC (heating, ventalation, air condition), IT stuff. Lots of junk. They're all put in there by different trades. Nowadays people are doing 3D modeling of buildings of this space before physically building it so they know what is in conflict with what. I didn't pursue this b/c even though I'm good at CAD, I don't particularly like doing it. I need to talk to people, so I took a different route. The point is that the same major or study can be used in a variety of ways.

It's either Terry from HTK (Hightekbikes) or someone else whom I read was an EE for 20 years and now he's an e-bike dealer! Good? Bad? You make the choice. personally, I think the people who succeed in the e-bike world are people who have technical knowledge to backup their interest in the subject. They can do so much better than just a retailer who doesn't really care what he's selling and e-kits happens to be one of them. Not encouraging EE guys to be e-bike dealers. Hahha, but nothing wrong with that. Just wanted to further mention that college degrees can lead to a variety of places where you can still use your knowledge.

Doctors for instance have different specialties but also different work life. Some see patients all day every day. Some hate seeing patients and do research. Same degree, same study. Different work. So the point is that there may be more you can do with you EE degree than you think. Consider the fact that you may be rejecting it prematurely. Again, only you would know. Don't listen to me. I'm just some random stranger you met on a forum.
 
thank you, kmxtornado, for putting it as you did. Many people have posted in this thread what I think to be very worthwhile comments.
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edit:
I will say that I do enjoy working with CATIA and CATIA CAM.. I wish I could reap more benefits from it.. such as getting into freelance work.. or working part time for a CNC shop. (I currently am a teaching assistant/CNC operator at my school).
 
I was studying med until the costs started to add up and i simply could not afford it, 4-7k per semester depending on how many subjects i did, should be free.
Id love to go back to school and do EE tho.. stick it out.
 
What an interesting thread. I was looking for something else Kingfish might have said. Is it just me, or does everyone expect he'll have the best one?

“Bad times have a scientific value. These are occasions a good learner would not miss.”
― Ralph Waldo Emerson

Dropout of college? You mean like my teachers at the Don Bosco Technical Institute? The State of California didn't used to require a private school teacher to be a college graduate, neither did Bosco Tech. Nor did they require math or english teachers to speak english.

So in the first grade, the student newspaper published an article I wrote, much to the shock of the rest of the school who didn't expect any member of my family to read and write at any age. My drug addict Mother was constantly telling me I had nothing but water in my head and that I'd be a ditch digger when I grew up, even though I kept bringing home aptitude test scores in the 99 percentile, a la doing better than 99 percent of those who took the test. (Yeah, Ma, I'm an anacept. Beautiful theory.)

The nuns, who had some extreme grudges against my 7 older brothers and sisters as well as my mother, used those test scores as an excuse for their verbal abuse because my report cards were merely average. (Anyone need an explanation why?) My mother pretended they were worse than they really were as she regularly kept me from doing my homework, hoping to get my grades down to where she wanted them. (If you understand 'Dual disordered/self medicating,' yeah, that's Ma.) So after a day at school with classmates whose older brothers and sisters had feared my older brothers and sisters and they figured they'd better fear me too, I went home to deal with those older brothers and sisters at their varying levels of substance abuse; they just never seemed to grow up and move out. And slowly I won over a neighborhood full of parents who had never let their children have anything to do with my older brothers and sisters; often I was asked 'How come you're so nice, coming from that family?'

In the 5th grade I won the statewide reading contest at the Boys Club, by 6th the magazine for high school kids that had included two previous articles from me called the house for some bio information to go with the 3rd. When they found out I wasn't a teenager yet, that was the end of that. It wasn't that I didn't want to go to school, I was just looking forward to escaping CATHOLIC school. Or at least THAT Catholic school. Things would be better in high school, right? There's the old saying, 'Out of the frying pan, into the fire.' Bosco Tech was hell on earth and that about covers it.

Oh, weren't they proud of themselves when they got me up in front of that assembly to make an example of me. I was thrilled, I thought they were kicking me out. Instead they wanted to pat themselves on the back because I had won some award from yet another aptitude test, don't remember why that one was a big deal after having grand slammed so many before. It was the end of junior year before I finally forced their hand and they removed it from Dad's pocket. I never dropped out, I had escaped hell and was on the way to heaven: Public school, qualified teachers, a 3.6gpa and a journalism award, all to go with my tshirt that said "Go to HELL, world; I'm a SENIOR." Basically the things I could have been doing all along, if only. Would have been the greatest year of my life, except early on, Dad let me in on a secret I wasn't to tell the others: He'd had cancer surgery several years earlier, but the ongoing chemotherapy had failed. He was terminally ill.

So now I was trying to go to the cheap California Community College system because that was all I could afford. All the money I'd made growing up with the $3 lawnmower I'd fixed and mowed lawns with, the custom slot car parts I sold with classified ads in the magazines, the newspaper route, the rebuilding old bikes to consign at the bike shops, Mom pitched fits that I wasn't making more when she took it for the older ones. I worked after school, then came home to the flop house full of the older brothers who were out of work, the divorced older sisters and their kids, all of whom complained at the noise Dad made while I was up half the night helping him with his attacks. In the morning he went to work, I went to school. On time. Yeah, I guess it would have been easier to drop out.

Hard to believe Dad was associated with the rest of the family. Picture a Phi Beta Kappa Fred Flinstone studying PhD Physics at UCLA. Highest security clearance a civilian can have in the military industrial complex. If 'The Six Million Dollar Man' had existed, Dad would have met him on one of his trips to Area 51. Seriously. He worked, he paid for everything, he kept going even though his family really didn't deserve it all. Even when he reached the point he could barely walk. And I finally got to understanding why it so amused him to call me 'Dauntless.' Oh, wait a minute, could you repeat for me what it was you were finding so hard?

So I couldn't drop out while Dad was alive and I couldn't drop out after he died. I never told the family members what he had to say about them in the end as he was trying to ready me to shoulder them in his place. Mom went home to Texas, so I got custody of the older and the younger brothers and sisters. (HUGE family.) One by one they would follow Mom: in the meantime, guess who had to support them. Luckily the Cal State University and College system was highly discounted, but it would cost a lot more than community college. Work, student loans, I don't know HOW I pulled this off. No, I didn't drop out.

Even after I graduated. Only the 2nd of Dad's children to earn a BA, the only to do it in 4 years. The following fall I was still in school.

It was a rickety education I put together the first time around. K12 had nothing college prep about it, in spite of all of Dad's money Mom spent on it. I struggled to stay around a 3.0gpa as a working fulltime student who should have at least cut down to parttime. College radio station, sports TV production crew, why would I study broadcasting and not do those things? Someone mentioned the quote about getting more hours for the day by taking them from the night: Guess which part of the night they came from?

"My candle burns at both ends It will not last the night;
But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends -
It gives a lovely light."
-Edna St. Vincent Millay

Didn't learn near what I could have. Again, anyone needing an explanation on that? Oh, but I was already working in film and television by the time I graduated. It wasn't long before Mom had them all out there fighting under HER roof again, for the first time in my life I came home to a peaceful place. (Breathtaking) And I just kept going to school. Oh, the collection of degrees, certificates, even the schools themselves. How fun to tell people I went to UCLA just like my Father, who had also gone to the University of Texas at Austin. I didn't have the money for the full Masters program, but they gave me a graduate certificate. All the AA degrees, the vocational school certificates. I guess if TV was a fulltime career I wouldn't have had the time. But I sure have had to juggle the schedule, you never know which direction I'll have to drive off to that day. Then I have to make it back to go to class, in California traffic that's no small feat. But I finally got my gold key, again just like my Father. If you know the TV commercials where the guy keeps calling his insurance after another accident, that particular actor used to say that I did things "In the fullness of time." Yeah, I think so.

Drop out? Would I have such an education if I did? Whatsoever would I do with myself if I didn't go to school? I mean, I'd TAKE that fulltime job if I could get my hands on it. I'd have taken more classes during the current work slowdown if I could get my hands on THEM, all the budget cuts have turned the 2 year community college AA into a 5-6 year degree. I'd already be at Cal Poly Technic Pomona in a graduate program for Mechanical Engineering if the schools weren't such a mess right now. Maybe I don't get to take up a sideline of doing FEA and CFD as a consultant afterall. But drop out because it's hard? If I didn't drop out through all of THAT, I mean, what's easy about being a quitter. . . ?

Graduate Certificate, Film/TV UCLA
BA English, Minor Theatre Arts CSUFullerton
AA degrees in Broadcasting, Administration of Justice, Social Work, Education (Plus still in progress Mathematics, Physics)
Community College Certificates; Business Administration, Industrial Design, Inspection and Testing, Composite Fabrication, oh, 5 more and leave it at that.
ROP Vocational Certificate Criminal Justice, Computer Animation, Welding, Machining, Motorcycle Repair

"We do these things not because they are easy, but because THEY ARE HARD!"
-John F. Kennedy, announcing the Moon Mission
 
Dropped out of the College of the Holy Cross in 2005 after building them a world class computer center, complete with total connectivity top to bottom. Most times your work will not be appreciated. Seems the human brain is wired in such a way that perception is rather limited. Anyway, as my psycoanalyst told me as I neared graduation from high school in 1970 (yes, I was the progeny of the '60's), "get your credentials as fast as you can and then get your real education after you matriculate." Took that advise, complete with a B.S. in biophysical sciences, M.P.H in biostatistics, and Ph.D. in computer science, the then up & coming professsion for those with no social skills. But only after I did everything possible to pry the doors of perception open (remember, I was a child of the 60's). I remember somewhere hearing the adage about its "not what you know, but who you know." Sure enough, those most beloved will excel in this world, so if all you've got going is an over sized cranium stuffed with grey matter, well go ahead and try to play that card. Anyway, its the doctoral exam in real life that will be the test that determines whether you'll suceed or not, what ever that is. Just look at Stanford Ovshinsky. He was a "drop out" too and look at what he did. Truly amazing really. There's always a path implied by what we drop out of and then run into. I've had so many lessons in the hard knocks school of life and I can tell you for sure that you always have to drop out before you make the next discovery in the grand adventure. So if you feel like dropping out because it just doesn't feel right, respect your feeling. But don't hide. Go forth yee of little faith and find the spirit that moves you. If that means jumping off a cliff with wings you made because you want to fly like a bird, well look at the legacy of all those who did, so we now have jet planes. We also have a pile of bones on the rocks below the cliff, but don't look there, look at those beautiful fluttering wings in the sky as those light creatures dance with the sun. My guru from the 70's, Baba Ram Dass used to say, with his buddy Timithy Leary to "tune in, turn on and drop out". By the way, I recommend doing it in that order, because if you're not tuned in when you turn on, then dropping out may well mean out completely, as sitting on the outside of whatever dream you were hoping to step into. In and out, out and in is the endless cycle. Its all maya.
 
hillzofvalp said:
Has anyone considered changing majors between an engineering degree and a technology degree?
... don't do it if you are capable financially and academically of getting the 4 year BS. Back when I hired and promoted people (aerospace industry) the HR departments would not recognize the technology degree as a "real" BS degree. Some of these people were as good or better than the BSers... I had to get them accepted into a Masters program, then work towards that degree. When they got the MS they were then "OK." ... a long road, that would have been easier to get the BS in the first place. The larger the employing company, the less flexible they are on this.
 
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