Short Between controller and Hub

Mayham

1 µW
Joined
Oct 29, 2023
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1
Location
California
Okay soooo I have a Delfast 3.0 and everything was great until I had axel post shear off on my cord side which I was able to jimmy back together here and there but after about a month I had a catastrophic failure.

So I opted to get a higher powered hub motor than what was on there previously which albeit was a quick little motor, I still craved the need the need for speed, so I went from a 72v 5k to 72v 8k hub motor which after a month of waiting and $1000 it finally arrived from China which was a week or two ago…

I ended up getting a QS275 V3 WP40H (👈🏼link to actual product I got) hub motor, controller this that and the other thing basically everything short of the frame, battery and front tire. So after struggling with removing the Gates Carbon Belt Drive freewheel from the Delfast hub which required of course a special tool/modified socket that I didn’t have, some welding, a whole lot of patience and sweat off It came and I had the new hub motor, controller, throttle and whatever else was needed to get up and going! However that victory was short lived as what would prove to be not enough drop out modification & fabrication was done to help prevent axel spinning and cord wrap, you see as the Delfast hub slowly died it required a lot of removing and installing in its final days which did a magnificent job in rounding out the rear wheel squared off slots for the axel to slide in which as I eluded to helps prevent axel spinning (see picks of modified drop out slots!) So after getting everything up and operational I went to give it a little throttle to pop it out through the pedestrian door of our garage which it was at this time things would take a dramatic turn!

Power to hub died and have t regained it since I’ve tested everything I could with the wheel still intact and got no where. I’m getting the code 07 on the Sabvoton controller so naturally everyone is like it’s the hall sensor which you’ve got me help an eighth of an inch or a 90° cord wrap on the axle is enough to actually pull or dislodge or dislocate the wires going to the hall sensor inside the hub It’s impossible! But sure enough I took the damn thing apart and the only test I could run on the hall sensors even with a rms multimeter and a fancy e-bike tester box was a continuity test. So everything passed the continuity test except the blue hall sensor. So I was prepared and started the repair happy as a pig in s*** until it dawned on me and I checked it to confirm it, after disconnecting the hall sensor 1. QUESTION #1 Shouldn’t the continuity test work or ring true ( no pun intended) after disconnecting the “Faulty” hall sensor?

Update: Just checked and the Blue hall sensor wire and the ground wire to all hall sensor locations both sides of the motor so 6 total location lacks continuity which leads me to believe there’s a short in my hub wire harness somewhere. Can anyone confirm or deny this finding?!



I don’t even know where the short could possibly even be in this motor to be honest!


Btw this motor lacks a hall sensor PCB board!
 

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I can't tell if the new motor's axle spun out to damage the wiring (your post doesn't make this clear), but if it did, then these are some possibilities.

A hall signal or power or ground wire could have been broken, possibly just the conductor inside the insulation so ti doesn't *look* broken.

A hall signal could have had the insulation damaged so the conductor is shorting to the axle itself, or to any other wire in the cable. This can damage both signal sources; if one is a phase wire it may destroy the hall input on the controller so that the controller can no longer read hall sensors.


Just so terminology is clear so we can tell what tests you are actually doing, "continuity" testing is a test that places a voltage across two points in a circuit, to see if current flows thru the circuit. If it does not, it is not "continuous" and so fails the continuity test. This test is normally used to see if there are breaks (open circuits) in a wire.


It *can* be used to test for shorts between wires (that should go different places); if it shows continuity it means a short exists where it should not.


The ebike tester cannot test for continuity, it only checks for specific signals present or missing.


So to do a continuity test for the hall wires, you would set the multimeter to continuity testing mode (check it's manual for how to do this for that model of meter), place the red multimeter lead on one end of the hall wire (such as at the motor's connector that goes to the controller), and the black on the other end of that same hall wire (such as inside the motor at the hall sensor).


If the meter beeps or shows a near-zero value, that wire has continuity like it should. If it does not, the wire is broken somewhere between the points you are testing. In this specific situation, tha'ts usually at the stressed point where wiring exits the axle, or nearby, wherever it was twisted up, but it can be anywhere in the wire.



You can test for shorts between wires as well, by doing the same test except you put the black lead on every wire *other* than the one the red lead is on. To pass this test, there should be no continuity beep, and a very high or infinite open-circuit reading on the meter.



The phase wires can't be tested for shorts with a regular meter unless you were to disconnect the WYE point inside the motor windings, which I don't recommend unless you absolutely have to for some other reason. But if they were shorted, it would usually blow up FETs in the controller, and the motor would be harder to turn by hand than usual even when it is not plugged into the controller.




Regarding your dropouts, they don't appear sufficient for your needs. I highly recommend replacing them with clamping/pinching dropouts, of which there are several examples in The Torque Arm Picture Thread.



The first most important part of securing an axle is to ensure the flats of the dropouts fully and completely flatly engage as much surface area of the axle flats, with no air gaps, and perfectly parallel to them. Otherwise the entire load is taken up by whatever tiny portion of axle and dropouts actually touch each other, and that usually results in the axle prying the dropouts apart and the axle spinning out, and wires being ripped up. The axle can be damaged enough to break it, too.


Pinching/clamping, if done right, will force them to be parallel and in contact, and prevent prying apart and spinout.


One very crude example that I made in a hurry one night; these are tight enough fitting that the axle has to be tapped into place, it can't just slide in or out, and that's before intalling and tightening the pinch bolt:

There are a number of much better examples if you can have something machined, such as these torque plates


A plain torque arm you can buy from ebikes.ca
https://endless-sphere.com/sphere/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Febikes.ca%2Fpub%2Fmedia%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct%2Fcache%2F7bc56b90756fa69927a10264ccfc611d%2Ft%2Fa%2Fta-torqarm_v7_wsplineclamp.jpg&hash=79155b9a3f0bcd21905bf0c2fa8b16c5
 
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