Anything To Say About The Xing Middrive?

Having the kit installed locally by the people who make it is a huge bonus, even more so for free. I understand why you would go that route. Are they also going to warrenty their work? If, yes thats a major plus. Sounds like a win to me. :mrgreen:


EBS
 
G'Day Doubledipspoon,
doubledipsoon said:
The Australia factor makes me a little nervous, kind of like the GNG China long distance variable. I mean, I do think the Global Economy sucks when it comes to parts and service. But don't listen to me. I've heard enough horror stories once the cash is deposited into their paypal account.
Just thought that I would chime in and vouch for AFT. Jim is an honest guy, just trying to make good gear better. Basically he uses the same motors and controllers that cyclone, ego etc use and makes them better.
Good luck with whatever you choose. I think you would be impressed with a good mid drive setup :D

Cheers, Martin.
 
Haste said:
looks cool!

OFFTOPIC...Where in the world have all these mid drives setups popped up from? 2013..year of the middrive!

Folks haven't figured out yet that three transmission stages are at least two too many. Once they get a load of them and have a bunch of GNG style show-stopping experiences, they'll stop buying-- and the Chinese shops that are repurposing blender motors (or whatever those things are) will stop bringing them to market.
 
Have you ever ridden offroad Chalo? For folks who want more torque that what the geared hub motor have to offer and a better weigth distribution, those chineeze mid drives are the only solution. I don't think the 2000$+ Ego kits are any better than the GNG after mods, exepted for the upgraded FW cranks.

The GNG has some major flaws, this however looks very nice and is probably quite relyable. I used to push 1200w trougth this kollmorgen motor with stock controller so it should not be too underpowered and there is still the option to put an external controller.
That kollmorgen motor is far from a blender motor, it has an anodised AL case, good bearings and epoxy-putted controller. Just don't go much over 36V or the magnet ring wil fail.
 
Chalo said:
Haste said:
looks cool!

OFFTOPIC...Where in the world have all these mid drives setups popped up from? 2013..year of the middrive!

Folks haven't figured out yet that three transmission stages are at least two too many. Once they get a load of them and have a bunch of GNG style show-stopping experiences, they'll stop buying-- and the Chinese shops that are repurposing blender motors (or whatever those things are) will stop bringing them to market.

Hey Chalo, how come most of the posts i read of yours are just bashing mid drives? Do you actually post anything that is helpful? If your such a die hard hub fan, why even come into the non hub drives section? People are allowed to like what they like and want what they want just as much as you are. We are on here to help eachother with our hobbies, not to bash eachothers likes and dislikes. With all due respect, please stop trolling before you help give ES a bad name.


EBS
 
It sounds like things are getting testy- now that's the spirit! This emotional fighting kind of reminds me of a friend I had when I was 10 years old. He loved Fords, and I was a Chevyman (Chevyboy). We'd stand on top of a freshly built pedestian overpass and actually count cars on the freeway to see which manufacturer was more prevalent- I always won....Seriously tho', it's too bad that American ingenuity isn't happening with mid drives, or electric bikes, for that matter. My theory is that Capitalism works great as long as you continue to work for money, instead of having your money work for you. Suddenly outsourcing, Wall Street, and sweat shops are all part of the big equation........too bad. None of this global stuff was happening when me and my friend had our go-carts with McCullough 2 stroke engines- parts, service, and managability was all just down the road apiece....
 
There's nothing wrong with jackshaft drives or crank drives in principle; they do what they do. But if you need 90 RPM or less, why start with 5000 or more? That much reduction is just friction, noise, wear, and points of failure. And if you're using the pedal drive, why impair pedaling mechanics with weird wide crank spindles and poor chainline? And why spin the chainring around a bearing that was never intended to spin with a load on it, when you could just get the crank speed right instead?

The solution to these things has been around longer than the problems. Use a low speed motor, and drive a left side chainring with it.
 
doubledipsoon said:
It sounds like things are getting testy- now that's the spirit! This emotional fighting kind of reminds me of a friend I had when I was 10 years old. He loved Fords, and I was a Chevyman (Chevyboy). We'd stand on top of a freshly built pedestian overpass and actually count cars on the freeway to see which manufacturer was more prevalent- I always won....Seriously tho', it's too bad that American ingenuity isn't happening with mid drives, or electric bikes, for that matter. My theory is that Capitalism works great as long as you continue to work for money, instead of having your money work for you. Suddenly outsourcing, Wall Street, and sweat shops are all part of the big equation........too bad. None of this global stuff was happening when me and my friend had our go-carts with McCullough 2 stroke engines- parts, service, and managability was all just down the road apiece....
Gotta agree with you there premisses being its simply cheaper to buy abroad than to undercut your profits to invest in somthing you could call your own and sell at a closer price ,but lets face it we are all looking for that better paid job
 
Chalo said:
There's nothing wrong with jackshaft drives or crank drives in principle; they do what they do. But if you need 90 RPM or less, why start with 5000 or more? That much reduction is just friction, noise, wear, and points of failure. And if you're using the pedal drive, why impair pedaling mechanics with weird wide crank spindles and poor chainline? And why spin the chainring around a bearing that was never intended to spin with a load on it, when you could just get the crank speed right instead?

The solution to these things has been around longer than the problems. Use a low speed motor, and drive a left side chainring with it.
most great ideas come from experimenting and failures ,,if we stoped now we would get nowere, nothing was ment to be just ment to be found
 
hi folks,i have purchased the aft 1680w kit with the emax upgrades.i will say jim at aft is a pleasure to deal with,he goes the extra mile when it comes to customer service.
i put the kit on a trek remedy 8 for commuting in shefffield uk.it does not mind the steepest of hills and goes damn quick too,i have a build thread that will have pictures soon.
 
Since this site's gone dead, maybe this image will wake things up-
 

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EvoBikeShop, I wish that were my bike. That is what Brian, the creator of "Xing Bike" is offering on his website for $3500. It is a Specialized Rockhopper with a Xing Kit, the 400 watt, 24 volt Kollmorgan motor with a double planetary. It also comes with a Nuvinci 360 to facillitate gear-shifting. Go to his new and improved website- he has other less expensive models also......My Currie e-ride is having it's Xing upgrade on May 21. The Xing can do a 35%grade so it'll meet my needs. Here's a picture of my Curry that runs great until you start up a moderately steep hill....For increased range, he's testing a BMS Li-ion battery that sells for about $300. He's getting 30 miles out of it, but is still testing it, Later, Joe
 

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If the xing kit wasnt so expensive i would possibly order one and add it to my carbon bamboo bike. Please post a full review when you get it installed.


EBS
 

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I have something to say about the xing.
But first a little about me. I am a regular bike rider. I am on a bike nearly every day. I ride road, mountain, town and cargo bikes and often ride multiple different bikes in a given day. One to the trail and another to work. I also ride electric bikes. I have owned 4 electric bikes and test ridden around 20. I have only been interested in ebikes for the past 3 or 4 years. Of the 4 electric bikes I have owned only one was a hub drive (bionix) and I sold it a few months after buying it. The next was a stokemonkey, then a gng gen 2, a Panasonic mid drive and a home made mid drive modeled after the stokemonkey. For me the mid drive design just makes more sense. I use my ebikes to carry large loads up steap hills. I use them for work to get me to and from job sights, to transport miscellaneous tools, parts and materials and to get to and from meetings. For my electric bikes I like traveling at regular bike speeds 18-20 mph (or maybe a little faster) without putting much leg into it and I don't ever want to break down. Reliability is a must.
About the Xing.
I tested it out a few days ago.
Brian the developer of the the xing met me a the north end of the golden gate bridge. Here at the bottom of conzelman drive, Brian handed his bike over for me to test ride. I don't know the grade of cozelman but is a fairly steep and steady. It is not uncommon to see strong riders on very light carbon fiber bikes standing to pedal up this grade, particularly in the first few hundred yards.
As I pulled out of the parking lot I shifted down and the bike handle the initial climb without straining. I passed a group of roadies as I left the parking lot and headed up conzelman where the road steepens. I had expected the gear reduction to be quite loud but it was relatively quiet. I use a mac hub motor in my stokemonkey copy and the xing is only slightly louder than the my set up. It is much much quieter than the gng gen2. I found the noise of the gear reduction acceptable and motor noise seemed nonexistent. By comparison the gng gen 2 is too loud for my personal taste.
I am the type of rider that will always pedal. I stopped pedaling to see how the xing would handle the grade. Paired with the nuvinci the xing handled the grade no problem. I have a nuvinci on my gng gen2 and a standard derailleur on my stokemonkey copy. I know apples to oranges but I am fairly certain there is some energy loss in the nuvinci. That said the system still handled the grade fine. With the weight down low and centered between the front and rear wheels, the bike felt like a bike. As I passed the forbidden SCA "hiking" trail I was temped to test it out on the trail but did not want to get Brian's bike confiscated so I refrained.
I do not know how much power the xing yields. It is modest and smooth. I did not try but I would not expect it to pull wheelies. (Check out the 2000 watt ego kit if you are looking for a wheelie machine) Using the gears of the bike this system will get you up just about any hill. Having seen how the xing climbed I turned to head back down the hill.
Back at the lot I looked at the over the construction of the motor mount, motor chain line freewheel(s) etc. and and talked to Brian about the system. It all looked good and sounded like Brian spent a lot of time developing it and used good building practices in the design. The motor is a MAC motor. Everything looks relatively well protected and or sealed from the elements. There were some nice touches with a stainless steal debris guard protecting the drive cog (freewheel) and a simple battery case that kept the elements out. It was fairly clean with internal controller and the battery only a few inches from the motor there was almost no exposed wires. Only the one throttle wire running to the handlebar. There was an ebrake option but not one installed. I have seen what can happen when I throttle wire brakes so I like ebrake switches. Other than that I really like the xing.
If anyone is interested in a gng gen 2 with less than 200 miles on it let me know. I have one for sale.
 
Great review jpo, thanks.
 
Finally, a clean looking middrive with a ton of class...370 watt Mac motor, NuVinci drive train, and a 15 AH LiFePO4 battery, on a Specialized Rockhopper, all for under 3Gs.....Honey, should we max out our credit cards on a couple of his/hers?
 

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Thanks for the props, but yeah, I agree, no kingdom here.
I make them and I do ride them off road, seriously. It allows me to do things I could never do on human power alone. Like riding up incredibly steep hills (much slower than a 1+kW bike). I use them to commute too sometimes, but mostly off road.

Funny though, I just met hillyterrain here at lunch today and rode his 2 kW GNG kitted bike and I thought it would be perfect for commuting (a 20 mile commute). I might have to build one for just that purpose. But I'll keep using mine off road. By keeping power low I believe it's easier to maintain a good balance of low weight and long range and these features are important off road.

I can imagine the 2 kW would be fun off road but those kits don't seem to be there on reliability yet.

In the past couple years a lot of great products have launched. Many of them look like they will have the reliability, warranty, and good performance, but they are also low power like mine.
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoo...news&utm_source=googlenews&utm_medium=xmlfeed
 
The GNG certainly needs some tweaks prior to being a robust off road kit. I think kits like Xing and the Bafang crank drive matches up well with lighter XC style bikes and all mountain bikes.

I'd definitely want something more powerful for freeride/DH bikes. Even at 1500W, I'm still crawling up hills slower than pedal XCers bursting up the hill. :lol:
 
Yeah, I hear all your concerns regarding the big tradeoffs between power, range, maintenance, number of moving parts, and all the other hidden variables never noticed until the big breakdown or the big letdown.....but I'd say if I had to own ONE e-bike, i'd be the Xing, THEORETICALLY. Right now I ride 2 "old technology" e-bikes- a totally upgraded Currie "e-ride" and a Synergy with a huge makeover- you wouldn't recognize either, as the stock one's are ugly. I can work on both, get parts, and deal with them like it's no big deal. Have you ever tried working on a NuVinci drive train? Then you know what I mean. There are alot of bikes that are impractical, too high-tech, not to mention downright impossible to get parts for, so I deal in the old school retro universe, where you don't have to worry about things wearing out because they can be fixed within minutes. Anyway thanks for listening to my babble, as I enjoyed listening to yours!
 
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