Are there standards for the various battery mounts?

UtahPete

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Oakley, Utah
So far, I've been buying new batteries (mostly the Hailong type) along with the locking bike mount and charger. But, I want to start buying batteries off local sellers, generally used, as good deals become available. My quandary is that most of these batteries are 'naked' i.e. without the mount it's designed to connect with and lock to on the bike.

Are these things generic (i.e. conforming to some interchangeable standards) or are they unique and proprietary to the battery manufacturer?

Where do I buy the right mount (cradle) for a given battery and how do I know the connectors and rails will line up okay?

I'm aware of 4 basic styles of batteries and related mounts (cradles); a) Hailong frame tube mounts b) the rear rack mounted,(c) the vertical behind the seat tube type and (d) the bottle type.

Thanks.
 
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If you mean the Hailong battery case, there are more than one version around, some of which are very similar, and some of which have the same number of pins that look the same but are spaced differently, etc.
1693873437452.png 1693873502703.png1693873555041.png 1693873584844.png

So to find a matching one you have to know what you have, and examine whatever images they have of their stuff, buy the ones that look like they'll fit, and hope that what they actually send you is the same as what they advertised. (you can try asking them to make sure it is, but generally "good luck with that" because most sellers have no real idea what they are selling).

An image search for just hte mounts shows some places that have several kinds
like here


For the others, I haven't seen a consistent standard (which is also true of pretty much everything else in the ebike world--you find *some* parts of *some* things that are the same, but sometimes a crucial thing is different between systems).

Another similar case to the Hailong is the Reention / Polly (also listed in the above searches in some links).
 

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If you mean the Hailong battery case, there are more than one version around, some of which are very similar, and some of which have the same number of pins that look the same but are spaced differently, etc.
View attachment 339237 View attachment 339239View attachment 339240 View attachment 339241

So to find a matching one you have to know what you have, and examine whatever images they have of their stuff, buy the ones that look like they'll fit, and hope that what they actually send you is the same as what they advertised. (you can try asking them to make sure it is, but generally "good luck with that" because most sellers have no real idea what they are selling).

An image search for just hte mounts shows some places that have several kinds
like here


For the others, I haven't seen a consistent standard (which is also true of pretty much everything else in the ebike world--you find *some* parts of *some* things that are the same, but sometimes a crucial thing is different between systems).

Another similar case to the Hailong is the Reention / Polly (also listed in the above searches in some links).
So, what do folks do about mounting and hooking up a naked battery? Or, are these orphans only good for opening up to re-use the cells?
 
If you want to mount a totally naked (bare cells and interconnects) battery that has no case, you can build it into whatever case that might fit it (just like the mounts I linked above, you can also buy empty cases with or without mounts), and mount that, or you can use things like Pelican cases, ammocans, etc., and then DIY whatever kind of mount is necessary for that specific case and whatever bike you're putting it on. Or custom make your own case from scratch, if you're up for that.

See your other similar thread for links and suggestions; if you don't mind searching and reading a fair bit, there's bunches of threads over the years showing off such things, including the "show off your homemade battery case" (sic) thread, or the "your creation's before and after pics" thread, and many battery or bike build threads.

If you mean a battery that doesn't have the mount that goes on the bike, but otherwise has the case, then I already answered that the only real way there is...you would have to look up each one and find someone that sells the mount and then do what you could to match what you have with what they sell, and hope that what they send you is what they said they were selling, etc.

Or...transplant it into a new case.


I do recommend treating every used battery as both:
-- a potentially stolen item (seen posts over the years by members whose battery was stolen so they have to find a new one that will fit their bike...and other types of posts by noobs here that probably did steal the battery (or the bike) and came here to find a charger or to sell it, etc)
and as:
-- a potential firebomb waiting to go off, since you can't know anything about it until you test it (measuring at the cell group level, preferably, under discharge load as you would be using it and under charge as you would normally do it) so you have some idea if there is a problem you need to fix before using it (like bad cells, or a broken BMS that can't turn off and protect the cells, etc), or if it is even usable at all. Even after testing you still have no way to know what abuse it has seen before you got it, if it was ever discharged below safe levels and recharged anyway, or if it was overheated, overloaded, etc.
 
Another similar case to the Hailong is the Reention / Polly (also listed in the above searches in some links).
One observation is that both Grin and KT make battery cradle controllers to fit Hailong and Reention cradles. Not sure that makes them standard, but maybe popular enough to be supported by third parties.
 
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If you want to mount a totally naked (bare cells and interconnects) battery that has no case, you can build it into whatever case that might fit it (just like the mounts I linked above, you can also buy empty cases with or without mounts), and mount that, or you can use things like Pelican cases, ammocans, etc., and then DIY whatever kind of mount is necessary for that specific case and whatever bike you're putting it on. Or custom make your own case from scratch, if you're up for that.

See your other similar thread for links and suggestions; if you don't mind searching and reading a fair bit, there's bunches of threads over the years showing off such things, including the "show off your homemade battery case" (sic) thread, or the "your creation's before and after pics" thread, and many battery or bike build threads.

If you mean a battery that doesn't have the mount that goes on the bike, but otherwise has the case, then I already answered that the only real way there is...you would have to look up each one and find someone that sells the mount and then do what you could to match what you have with what they sell, and hope that what they send you is what they said they were selling, etc.

Or...transplant it into a new case.


I do recommend treating every used battery as both:
-- a potentially stolen item (seen posts over the years by members whose battery was stolen so they have to find a new one that will fit their bike...and other types of posts by noobs here that probably did steal the battery (or the bike) and came here to find a charger or to sell it, etc)
and as:
-- a potential firebomb waiting to go off, since you can't know anything about it until you test it (measuring at the cell group level, preferably, under discharge load as you would be using it and under charge as you would normally do it) so you have some idea if there is a problem you need to fix before using it (like bad cells, or a broken BMS that can't turn off and protect the cells, etc), or if it is even usable at all. Even after testing you still have no way to know what abuse it has seen before you got it, if it was ever discharged below safe levels and recharged anyway, or if it was overheated, overloaded, etc.
Well, you have certainly given me a lot to think about. Thank you.
 
One observation is that both Grin and KT make battery cradle controllers to fit Hailong and Reention cradles. Not sure that makes them standard, but maybe popular enough to be supported by third parties.
"Cradles" is the term I should have been using. Thanks.
 
Perhaps the benefits (urgency?) of dismantling used packs to test the cells leads to the value of standardizing the format you repack them in?
 
Two recent scenarios.

There's a local Facebook Marketplace seller advertising new Nakto 36v batteries (for the Nakto bikes) of varying capacities and form factors, without cradles. So, I was thinking if I could find cradles I'd have a ready-made inexpensive solution for the small folding bikes (Dahon) that I want to electrify. Those would have to go on a rear rack and be removable to reduce weight when manhandled them. So, I'd need a cradle. I like your ideas about buying a new battery case and cradle if all else fails.

The other scenario (actually twice now, but I'll describe the most recent) is I've run across people selling their complete ebike for considerably less than what the e-kit alone would cost. A fellow had paid a local shop to install an E-Bike Kit product on a decrepit old Schwin, which he'd used for a couple of years and then bought a new ebike more to his liking. His original asking price was about half what he had invested into the kit but I was able to get it for about 1/3 the cost of a new kit. It was on 700 wheels and I use 26" in my builds, so I'll have some relacing to do, but I'm saving several hundred dollars that way (in a perfect world). He has misplaced the key for the battery cradle, so I'm hoping the company can replace it or a locksmith can cut one.

Anyway, I'm still groping my way along, learning as I go, and I appreciate having this forum as a resource when I come across the unanticipated glitches in my plans.
 
Perhaps the benefits (urgency?) of dismantling used packs to test the cells leads to the value of standardizing the format you repack them in?
Absolutely. I'm focusing on electrifying Electra Townie bikes and the Dahon folding bikes for now. They could both benefit from a custom battery case solution, given their challenging frame shapes. I can always mount a rear rack battery, but I'd like to get the weight down lower in the frame, if I can.
 
Two recent scenarios.

There's a local Facebook Marketplace seller advertising new Nakto 36v batteries (for the Nakto bikes) of varying capacities and form factors, without cradles. So, I was thinking if I could find cradles I'd have a ready-made inexpensive solution for the small folding bikes (Dahon) that I want to electrify.

The below is applicable to ANY battery you want to by and use:

First...is the seller highly rated, and is there a good amount of long term feedback on the batteries they sell? If not, you might consider a different seller that is. Batteries are the heart of any system, and if they're not good the system wont' do what it should. They can also be dangerous if poorly built or made of junk, both of which are true for MANY batteries out there, some of which "look" ok, but are not. True especially for "cheap" batteries. Most sellers dont' even know anything about what they sell, which you can find out pretty quickly by asking some pointed questions about the technical aspects of their packs contents and construction (which you should do for any battery you want to buy even one of, much less many of). Also...do the batteries meet the needs of the system you want to build? Can they supply the necessary power for the full amount of time you need them to, under your specific riding conditions, and do they have the capacity to do this for the distance you need to go?

Next: Are they using one of the common 3rd party casings, or something custom to that bike? If it's custom to that bike (like something built into the frame, etc) you'll have to get hold of Nakto for the parts, or get hold of a bike they fit on and copy the design (3d print one, etc). (unless that seller also sells cradles for them...and if they don't, ask them why they don't, and if they know who does).

With anything like this, unless you can just contact the company making the stuff (or making the thing the stuff is meant to go on, like in this case) to buy some, you're going to have to do googling (or your favorite search engine), or manually look at all the places ebike parts are sold (which is nearly everywhere) and just look at each individual thing that is out there and see if it fits the other thing you want to buy...or you'll have to make a solution, or adapt one that is out there.

For instance, it took me about a minute and a half with google to locate the ebay link to the cradles / adapters for the Hailong packs I posted earlier in the thread. ;) Some things take a lot more work to find, because they aren't that common, and some things just don't exist yet...but something close does, that can be modified. I haven't looked for Nakto stuff, but if it's out there, you could find it. ;)


I like your ideas about buying a new battery case and cradle if all else fails.
As long as the cell block inside is already configured in a physical layout that will drop into the case you want to use, it's easy. If it is not, then you could be looking at significant expensive work and tools, with risk of damage to cells (and potentially fire) if something goes wrong with a reconfiguration.

So the simplest way to re-case one is to pick a case that works with the layout, and use that, or to just skip using those and find a pack that you don't have to re-case, or that will fit in the case you want to use.


The other scenario (actually twice now, but I'll describe the most recent) is I've run across people selling their complete ebike for considerably less than what the e-kit alone would cost.
Remember a used battery is a complete unknown, and worth zero dollars until it is proven to be capable of whatever you need it to do. ;)

The rest of the kit is probably perfectly fine (except maybe the wheel build***), but a battery is rarely cared for, and by the time most people get around to selling their old layabout stuff, it has sat uncharged and untested for many months or even years, and the BMS has probably at best made a serious imbalance in the cells by draining some to power itself from, or worse drained them dead to unsafe-to-recharge levels (some BMS run off the whole pack, so it takes longer but it kills *all* the cells when it happens, instead of the first few most negative ones).

Also...many (most) kits are very cheap, and regardless of the hundreds of dollars or more that they are being sold for are the same stuff being sold by places like Voilamart for a couple hundred bucks.

About the only expensive ones I usually see that might be worth the prices being charged for them are the RTR kits at ebikes.ca.

He has misplaced the key for the battery cradle, so I'm hoping the company can replace it or a locksmith can cut one.
There's several threads about replacing the locks on cases or cradles around here somewhere that will probably help with that.



***wheels from most of these cheap kits are built with spokes too thick for the rims they used, so they have to be tensioned higher than the rim can handle, and then they damage the rim, deforming or cracking it around the nipple holes, loosening the spokes, which then begin to fail. (the process happens faster when someone that hasn't examined the rim and doesn't know how wheels work tries to fix it by tightening the loose spokes, which further damages the rim and still leaves a loose spoke, etc.). Why do they use the wrong spokes? Because that's how the industry started, and bigger numbers always mean better, right? So a thicker spoke *must* be better! But it isn't...and marketing departments, etc., will never be convinced of that, especially since they don't actually care if the stuff they make actually keeps working for the customer--if it breaks the customer has to buy more, so.... very few ebike motor wheel builders use the right spokes for the rims they use. (and the spokes and rims they use are usually, like the rest of what they build with, the cheapest things they could possibly get hold of).

So having to relace the wheels in your case is actually very likely a good thing--you have the chance to use the correct smaller spokes (14-15g butted) instead of the too-thick spokes usually used (12g straight) for your rims. (you *can* use those thicker spokes, but your rim has to be designed for the tension they will require, and most bicycle rims are not).
 
@amberwolf I'm under the impression that there's little to no standards for frame integrated batteries or with integrated mid motor brackets either - completing the circle.
 
... It was on 700 wheels and I use 26" in my builds, so I'll have some relacing to do, but I'm saving several hundred dollars that way (in a perfect world).
By the time you factor in quality new component costs (rim, spokes, nipples) (tools?) that several hundred dollars saving shrinks to much less.

BUT: You will be rewarded with a far better riding experience from a well-constructed wheelbuild.
 
The below is applicable to ANY battery you want to by and use:

First...is the seller highly rated, and is there a good amount of long term feedback on the batteries they sell? If not, you might consider a different seller that is. Batteries are the heart of any system, and if they're not good the system wont' do what it should. They can also be dangerous if poorly built or made of junk, both of which are true for MANY batteries out there, some of which "look" ok, but are not. True especially for "cheap" batteries. Most sellers dont' even know anything about what they sell, which you can find out pretty quickly by asking some pointed questions about the technical aspects of their packs contents and construction (which you should do for any battery you want to buy even one of, much less many of). Also...do the batteries meet the needs of the system you want to build? Can they supply the necessary power for the full amount of time you need them to, under your specific riding conditions, and do they have the capacity to do this for the distance you need to go?

Next: Are they using one of the common 3rd party casings, or something custom to that bike? If it's custom to that bike (like something built into the frame, etc) you'll have to get hold of Nakto for the parts, or get hold of a bike they fit on and copy the design (3d print one, etc). (unless that seller also sells cradles for them...and if they don't, ask them why they don't, and if they know who does).

With anything like this, unless you can just contact the company making the stuff (or making the thing the stuff is meant to go on, like in this case) to buy some, you're going to have to do googling (or your favorite search engine), or manually look at all the places ebike parts are sold (which is nearly everywhere) and just look at each individual thing that is out there and see if it fits the other thing you want to buy...or you'll have to make a solution, or adapt one that is out there.

For instance, it took me about a minute and a half with google to locate the ebay link to the cradles / adapters for the Hailong packs I posted earlier in the thread. ;) Some things take a lot more work to find, because they aren't that common, and some things just don't exist yet...but something close does, that can be modified. I haven't looked for Nakto stuff, but if it's out there, you could find it. ;)



As long as the cell block inside is already configured in a physical layout that will drop into the case you want to use, it's easy. If it is not, then you could be looking at significant expensive work and tools, with risk of damage to cells (and potentially fire) if something goes wrong with a reconfiguration.

So the simplest way to re-case one is to pick a case that works with the layout, and use that, or to just skip using those and find a pack that you don't have to re-case, or that will fit in the case you want to use.



Remember a used battery is a complete unknown, and worth zero dollars until it is proven to be capable of whatever you need it to do. ;)

The rest of the kit is probably perfectly fine (except maybe the wheel build***), but a battery is rarely cared for, and by the time most people get around to selling their old layabout stuff, it has sat uncharged and untested for many months or even years, and the BMS has probably at best made a serious imbalance in the cells by draining some to power itself from, or worse drained them dead to unsafe-to-recharge levels (some BMS run off the whole pack, so it takes longer but it kills *all* the cells when it happens, instead of the first few most negative ones).

Also...many (most) kits are very cheap, and regardless of the hundreds of dollars or more that they are being sold for are the same stuff being sold by places like Voilamart for a couple hundred bucks.

About the only expensive ones I usually see that might be worth the prices being charged for them are the RTR kits at ebikes.ca.


There's several threads about replacing the locks on cases or cradles around here somewhere that will probably help with that.



***wheels from most of these cheap kits are built with spokes too thick for the rims they used, so they have to be tensioned higher than the rim can handle, and then they damage the rim, deforming or cracking it around the nipple holes, loosening the spokes, which then begin to fail. (the process happens faster when someone that hasn't examined the rim and doesn't know how wheels work tries to fix it by tightening the loose spokes, which further damages the rim and still leaves a loose spoke, etc.). Why do they use the wrong spokes? Because that's how the industry started, and bigger numbers always mean better, right? So a thicker spoke *must* be better! But it isn't...and marketing departments, etc., will never be convinced of that, especially since they don't actually care if the stuff they make actually keeps working for the customer--if it breaks the customer has to buy more, so.... very few ebike motor wheel builders use the right spokes for the rims they use. (and the spokes and rims they use are usually, like the rest of what they build with, the cheapest things they could possibly get hold of).

So having to relace the wheels in your case is actually very likely a good thing--you have the chance to use the correct smaller spokes (14-15g butted) instead of the too-thick spokes usually used (12g straight) for your rims. (you *can* use those thicker spokes, but your rim has to be designed for the tension they will require, and most bicycle rims are not).
Wow, lots of great information. Thanks.
 
@amberwolf I'm under the impression that there's little to no standards for frame integrated batteries or with integrated mid motor brackets either - completing the circle.
There are no actual obeyed standards at all.

Not even for wire color of battery positive and negative; more than once we've seen red used for negative, black for positive, etc.

There are some things that happen to be used by more than one seller, manufacturer, etc., but even those are not always identical. There have been threads for example where people bought controllers intended to fit in the cradles that have spots for these, and found that they wouldn't fit as designed in one, but presumably would in another. Similarly, there have been cases (like hailong, etc) that didn't fit on a new separately-purchased cradle because the number and length of tabs on the slide rails was different.

So...if you want to use different things together, you have to check, yourself, if they will physically fit each other, etc. (you can't just ask the seller if they'll fit--they almost certainly have no idea, but will tell you whatever you want to hear so they can sell you something).
 
I think Hailong cases suck. I bought a Hailong pack from UPP. When I decided to make my own battery, I found the available cases I could buy use a different cradle, so my new battery wasn't compatible, In addition, the panels that hold the keylock and charger port are glued in by the user. Fragile and messy, They run wires to the cover for battery LED gauges, which makes the cover harder to remove,

The build in cavity for a controller wastes space if you don't use it, There are also no lock tabs in this area. If you hang the battery upside down, it's only held by lock tabs on half the cradle,

I feel the Reention DP Poly cases are better. The keylock/charger panel are part of the base. No glue and a better fit. No wires go to the cover. Seems to be more room inside for a BMS too.

Just my personal bias.
 
I think Hailong cases suck. I bought a Hailong pack from UPP. When I decided to make my own battery, I found the available cases I could buy use a different cradle, so my new battery wasn't compatible, In addition, the panels that hold the keylock and charger port are glued in by the user. Fragile and messy, They run wires to the cover for battery LED gauges, which makes the cover harder to remove,

The build in cavity for a controller wastes space if you don't use it, There are also no lock tabs in this area. If you hang the battery upside down, it's only held by lock tabs on half the cradle,

I feel the Reention DP Poly cases are better. The keylock/charger panel are part of the base. No glue and a better fit. No wires go to the cover. Seems to be more room inside for a BMS too.

Just my personal bias.
That's good to know about the Reention Poly cases. The Hailong is just a common form factor for bike batteries. They're made by many different manufacturers to their own specs. Quality varies all over the place, I imagine.
 
There are no actual obeyed standards at all.

Not even for wire color of battery positive and negative; more than once we've seen red used for negative, black for positive, etc.

There are some things that happen to be used by more than one seller, manufacturer, etc., but even those are not always identical. There have been threads for example where people bought controllers intended to fit in the cradles that have spots for these, and found that they wouldn't fit as designed in one, but presumably would in another. Similarly, there have been cases (like hailong, etc) that didn't fit on a new separately-purchased cradle because the number and length of tabs on the slide rails was different.

So...if you want to use different things together, you have to check, yourself, if they will physically fit each other, etc. (you can't just ask the seller if they'll fit--they almost certainly have no idea, but will tell you whatever you want to hear so they can sell you something).
I sure got that message! Thanks.
 
You're welcome...though my reply was to Mongo, since I'd already expressed it to you in a different form. ;)
 
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