• Howdy! we're looking for donations to finish custom knowledgebase software for this forum. Please see our Funding drive thread

Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Hi and sorry if this question has already been answered in this post (I don't fancy trawling through 40+ pages tbh) but would you be complying with the law if you used a high powered kit (eg bafang Bbdhd or Tangent Ascent) but limited the output on the road with a Cycle Analyst? I'm in the UK at the moment but I'm emigrating to Melbourne later this year. Cheers :)
 
PtotheK said:
Hi and sorry if this question has already been answered in this post (I don't fancy trawling through 40+ pages tbh) but would you be complying with the law if you used a high powered kit (eg bafang Bbdhd or Tangent Ascent) but limited the output on the road with a Cycle Analyst? I'm in the UK at the moment but I'm emigrating to Melbourne later this year. Cheers :)
Click to expand...

bloody poms invading our country :p

i think technically your still 'illegal' (ie the CA probably counts as a governor, and the limit is an ungoverned max of 200w) but I know pendragon has had his bike taken and tested by the police after he loaned it to a drunken mate he made at a pub who subsequently crashed it and needed to be taken to hospital. With it limited to 200w with the CA and that passed their test fine and he got it back a couple of days later.
 
[/quote]bloody poms invading our country :p[/quote]

Ha ha you're not wrong, but do you blame us! You'd do the same if you were from this grey little island :wink: My Fiance is Australian and she's "done her time" here in the UK so it's time to move to sunnier shores!

[/quote]i think technically your still 'illegal' (ie the CA probably counts as a governor, and the limit is an ungoverned max of 200w) but I know pendragon has had his bike taken and tested by the police after he loaned it to a drunken mate he made at a pub who subsequently crashed it and needed to be taken to hospital. With it limited to 200w with the CA and that passed their test fine and he got it back a couple of days later.[/quote]

That's ace! I would have thought that as long as it's in "legal mode" while on the road it shouldn't be a problem as it's performing within legal limits. The same way that a low powered motorcycle is limited/restricted for learners.
 
PtotheK said:
That's ace! I would have thought that as long as it's in "legal mode" while on the road it shouldn't be a problem as it's performing within legal limits. The same way that a low powered motorcycle is limited/restricted for learners.
Click to expand...

The regulators site (Roads and Maritime Services in NSW) used to "recommend against field adjustable governors". They didn't say why, or what they would do if they found one. I guess it would have come down to the cop who pulled you over, and the magistrate that you were fighting the charge in front of. Easy for the cop to say "He flicked a switch just as I pulled him over - he was clearly doing at least 90km/h in a school zone".

That said, I've been riding electrics for 5 years now, all motors capable of doing low 40s to high 40s. Even done it in front of, and passing a cop. No cop has ever raised an eyebrow at me. I suspect that as long as nobody has complained, and you're not looking like the next Darwin award nominee, cops have better things to do with their time.
 
Sunder said:
That said, I've been riding electrics for 5 years now, all motors capable of doing low 40s to high 40s. Even done it in front of, and passing a cop. No cop has ever raised an eyebrow at me. I suspect that as long as nobody has complained, and you're not looking like the next Darwin award nominee, cops have better things to do with their time.
Click to expand...

How noisy are the ebikes you've been riding pasts the police on? The reason I ask is that I really love the new Tangent Ascent drive as its small and powerful. Trouble is it's pretty noisy! I wonder if the police would be so passive if the bike sounded like a mini trials :?
 
PtotheK said:
Sunder said:
That said, I've been riding electrics for 5 years now, all motors capable of doing low 40s to high 40s. Even done it in front of, and passing a cop. No cop has ever raised an eyebrow at me. I suspect that as long as nobody has complained, and you're not looking like the next Darwin award nominee, cops have better things to do with their time.
Click to expand...

How noisy are the ebikes you've been riding pasts the police on? The reason I ask is that I really love the new Tangent Ascent drive as its small and powerful. Trouble is it's pretty noisy! I wonder if the police would be so passive if the bike sounded like a mini trials :?
Click to expand...

Early editions just used geared hubs with square wave controllers - hardly mini trail bikes, but anyone near you would know that it wasn't a pushy.

Later ones had oil injected into it, and used Field Oriented Control to get near silent running. At low speed, not impossible to tell, but once you get above 20km/h or so, road noise and wind far outstrip the motor noise.
 
Sunder said:
Later ones had oil injected into it, and used Field Oriented Control to get near silent running. At low speed, not impossible to tell, but once you get above 20km/h or so, road noise and wind far outstrip the motor noise.
Click to expand...

The videos I've seen don't appear to be near silent running: http://youtu.be/OxCQceYGBQQ http://youtu.be/F9lML1AqV24 http://youtu.be/aHeKoP6doHs
It still looks like one of the best options for a mid drive out there!
 
I meant early editions of my bike, not the Tangent Ascent. Sorry.
 
Firstly, sorry if this has been mentioned before, but reading 40+ pages is not going to happen today !..
I have never concerned myself with these "legalities", I just ride a production 250w bike with magic dust in the controller and battery that results in 1250 W for practical riding . However, I recently had the opportunity to use a wattmeter on a couple of theoretically 200 W Aussi legal production bikes.....just to see what is going on.
First a "Tonaro" mid drive Pedalec cruiser, showed an indicated 23 amps (Max) @ 39 volts( min)..~~900 Watts !
Next was a brand new A2B hub drive which indicated 28 amps (Max) @ 39 volts (min) ..= 1100 Watts
These were just short test rides in a hilly area to make sure I hit Max power limits.
(Note: I used a non standard 10s , 36/42 volt pack for this to facilitate connection of my wattmeter , but both bikes normally run 10 S , 36v nominal Li packs as standard..)
So . ..WTF is all this 200w limit all about ?...or did I just happen to hit on a pair of "outlaw" bikes ?
 
Are you sure they were 200W max bikes, and not 250w continuous bikes?

250W continuous bikes can easily go to 900w at the wheel for a few seconds when starting, so 1100w at the battery is well within range.
 
well they are both described as "200w" Au spec power rating ! ...and have stickers to proove it !...but who knows what is actually in those motors or controllers to restrict them from their overseas specs ?
but my point was that the "Australian 200W regulations" do not appear to actually mean much in reality.
http://www.fitbiz.com.au/FITBIZ/client/ProductCatalogue/c_catalogueItem.jsp?catName=Bicycles&pID=225&catID=402&prodID=1995
 
Hillhater said:
well they are both described as "200w" Au spec power rating ! ...and have stickers to proove it !...but who knows what is actually in those motors or controllers to restrict them from their overseas specs ?
but my point was that the "Australian 200W regulations" do not appear to actually mean much in reality.
http://www.fitbiz.com.au/FITBIZ/client/ProductCatalogue/c_catalogueItem.jsp?catName=Bicycles&pID=225&catID=402&prodID=1995
Click to expand...

Well the regulations are fairly clear. The fact that they're almost never enforced, and many so called "compliant" bikes probably aren't, only means it comes down to the attitude test.

Ride it like you're on it because you lost your licence, and you'll probably have the book thrown at you. Ride it like a granny bike and you'll probably never have problems.
 
The interesting bit is when they send a bike off to get tested for 200w on a car dyno.
Then hand it back as it won't spin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Samd said:
The interesting bit is when they send a bike off to get tested for 200w on a car dyno.
Then hand it back as it won't spin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I know an engineer in Tassie that has been developing one for the department of transport. They definitely have the capability here.
 
ebike dynos are common in chinese factories, not hard to acquire, no need to build one from scratch. Some small units are not that expensive.
for Hillhaters data above, you forgot to multiply by the efficiency of the motor, not that it matters much, say 0.82 ( 82%) might be typical value, that will be near max efficiency.
 
So if I'm reading this right, the EU is looking to abolish the crappy 250W 25kph limit and introduce 2 new categories.
Category A replaces the old E-Bike law and allows up to 1KW, but still limited to 25hph.
Category B allows up to 4KW and 45kph, but they call this a moped category, so not sure what that means for any chance of Aus adopting it.
http://www.bike-eu.com/laws-regulat...nfirmed-categorization-speed-e-bikes-10126788
Does anyone reckon Australia will adopt these changes or is that just wishful thinking?

Cheers
 
Cowardlyduck said:
So if I'm reading this right, the EU is looking to abolish the crappy 250W 25kph limit and introduce 2 new categories.
Category A replaces the old E-Bike law and allows up to 1KW, but still limited to 25hph.
Category B allows up to 4KW and 45kph, but they call this a moped category, so not sure what that means for any chance of Aus adopting it.
http://www.bike-eu.com/laws-regulat...nfirmed-categorization-speed-e-bikes-10126788
Does anyone reckon Australia will adopt these changes or is that just wishful thinking?

Cheers
Click to expand...

Speed limits are pretty silly. It is dangerous to go 45km/h on a 80km/h road.

I think there is a lack of will in government, the people in charge drive cars or worse are driven by Chauffeur. I can't imagine Malcolm Turnbull on a bicycle and I bet his reaction to ebike/bicycle commuters would be that "poor people should just get in their limousine or helicopter".
 
How about getting an Infineon Controller, and the computer programing cable for it . two places that sell them are Grin Technologies, and Em3ev.com .
Then you
Can Adjust your controller to the limit that you want, without using a Cycle Analyst .
Although
I do like like the fact that I can adjust the Amp Draw for each ride, or even during a stop while on a ride, by just a few button pushes on the Cycle Analyst.
I have ridden a Mac 6T hub motor at 200 watts or less many times/on many rides , it is silent at that wattage, and the speed is around 18-22 Km's at that wattage it is great for getting longer distance for those times when I would travel further than I thought I would, but I have to say it does get boring rather quickly .
Get to know the C.A. and how to adjust it quickly and hopefully you should be fine . ( Fair Dinkum )

With all the laws I hear about there down under these days ,
it is sure not the place I visited/lived at for a few months , some years ago.
That was back in the old Mick Dundee, type of attitude days. You all need to get back to those days, even elect that Woman ,
Pauline Hanson, I bet she would not put up with a wimpy 200 watt limit.

Another option , besides electing Pauline Hanson again , is for the e-bikers to unite and get a lobby to get those idiot's that make such low wattage laws in the first place to be voted out of office, or put enough pressure on them to get reasonable power regulations, like at least 500 watts minimum, to 750 watts .








PtotheK said:
Hi and sorry if this question has already been answered in this post (I don't fancy trawling through 40+ pages tbh) but would you be complying with the law if you used a high powered kit (eg bafang Bbdhd or Tangent Ascent) but limited the output on the road with a Cycle Analyst? I'm in the UK at the moment but I'm emigrating to Melbourne later this year. Cheers :)
Click to expand...
 
SaladFish said:
Speed limits are pretty silly. It is dangerous to go 45km/h on a 80km/h road.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately it cuts both ways. You point that out to a government official, and its far easier for them to say 'Good point mate, we'll ban these bikes from any road with a speed limit over 50kmh."

We currently fall into a niche, and the few of us that fall out of it, fly under the radar. We can ride on roads, we can ride on shared paths, we ride with no rego or license. If we get more freedoms, expect more restrictions as well. The higher the limits, the more the restrictions.

Personally, I'd rather fly under the radar for longer.
 
Cowardlyduck said:
So if I'm reading this right, the EU is looking to abolish the crappy 250W 25kph limit and introduce 2 new categories.
Category A replaces the old E-Bike law and allows up to 1KW, but still limited to 25hph.
Category B allows up to 4KW and 45kph, but they call this a moped category, so not sure what that means for any chance of Aus adopting it.
http://www.bike-eu.com/laws-regulat...nfirmed-categorization-speed-e-bikes-10126788
Does anyone reckon Australia will adopt these changes or is that just wishful thinking?

Cheers
Click to expand...
I would be really suspicious of this EU ruling.. Apparently the European Union love to throw taxes on things.. Giving people the ability to jump on a 4kw motor ebike sounds like a perfect spider web to weave so they can throw some taxes/licenses and license plates on the bikes..
The old saying goes, when its too good to be true it ain't..
 

Attachments

  • original.jpg
    original.jpg
    45.9 KB · Views: 1,905
TheBeastie said:
Cowardlyduck said:
So if I'm reading this right, the EU is looking to abolish the crappy 250W 25kph limit and introduce 2 new categories.
Category A replaces the old E-Bike law and allows up to 1KW, but still limited to 25hph.
Category B allows up to 4KW and 45kph, but they call this a moped category, so not sure what that means for any chance of Aus adopting it.
http://www.bike-eu.com/laws-regulat...nfirmed-categorization-speed-e-bikes-10126788
Does anyone reckon Australia will adopt these changes or is that just wishful thinking?

Cheers
Click to expand...
I would be really suspicious of this EU ruling.. Apparently the European Union love to throw taxes on things.. Giving people the ability to jump on a 4kw motor ebike sounds like a perfect spider web to weave so they can throw some taxes/licenses and license plates on the bikes..
The old saying goes, when its too good to be true it ain't..
Click to expand...
sadly i think your right mate. I'll bet that like the current EU laws, they'll be so bloody complicated and strict on safety regs that no home-built bike will ever comply anyway, sorta like trying to register a custom vehicle... be prepared to pay $10's of thousands to get it registered. :cry:
 
I doubt category A will suit Australian lawmakers attitudes to ebikes, they seem keen to keep the power limit to a bare minimum.
They might actually go through the process of making their own laws rather than plagiarising other countries, but going by past behaviour I'm guessing they will find another country with very low power limits and copy their regulations.
If they do follow the Eu regs it might be good for Australian ebikers if the power/speed limits are a bit higher, but you can only predict future on what the lawmakers in oz have done in the past.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top