Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Sunder said:
Modbikemax said:
They turned off the plate recognition system in WA because, according to the commissioner, police were spending too much time chasing unlicensed cars instead of doing real police work like finding the bastards who broke into my shop last May.
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We agree on one minor point at least - traffic work isn't police work, and should be relegated to highway patrol or even state rangers or a similar function.

However, which would you consider more serious - someone breaking into your shop and stealing a few thousand worth of goods, or someone breaking your spine in a car accident, then saying "Sorry mate, I thought licences were just so the state could fine me, so I didn't bother getting one. And err, about that 2 million dollar compensation pay out I owe you because you're now a permanent paraplegic, you see, as an unlicensed driver, I'm also uninsured, so you can have $10 a week from my pay packet from now until I die... Sorry mate, it's the best I can offer..."
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Injuries caused on the roads are covered by the third party insurance paid as part of your car registration. Pretty much everyone is covered if you get hurt on the road even predestination. As for personal compensation that is a private matter and the government don't get involved in that, you need to find a good lawyer. Even if the guy is well to do and has insurance there is no guarantee you will see a cent. Luckily everyone in Australia is covered by some sort of health insurance.
I take out my own insurance for loss of income due to trauma ie bike accident. I would not rely on suing someone for compensation.
 
Re 3rd party insurance.

Different states do things very differently.

If you are driving an unregistered vehicle in nsw,you have NO 3RD party insurance.
It's the way things are here.

Jason.
 
TheBeastie said:
http://www.theage.com.au/comment/nutting-out-the-nuttiness-of-bikecar-relations-20141223-12c2q0.html
Cyclists and motorists are like the Sunnis and Shi'ites in Iraq – they share the same territory but just can't get on. However, the schism twixt Australian cyclists and motorists is more baffling, because many of them are one and the same.
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So the Age is like the CIA, spreads propaganda, stirs the pot and gets the factions to kill each other.
 
Haha, what a can'o'worms this thread truly is....

I'd just like to take this opportunity to thank ALL E.S members for your interesting and thoughtful posts over this last year.
Merry Christmas and have a safe and lucky new year.
To all of you fellow ebike personnel !

Cheers and all the best.

Matt
 
Modbikemax said:
Injuries caused on the roads are covered by the third party insurance paid as part of your car registration. Pretty much everyone is covered if you get hurt on the road even predestination. As for personal compensation that is a private matter and the government don't get involved in that, you need to find a good lawyer. Even if the guy is well to do and has insurance there is no guarantee you will see a cent. Luckily everyone in Australia is covered by some sort of health insurance.
I take out my own insurance for loss of income due to trauma ie bike accident. I would not rely on suing someone for compensation.
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Wow, you could be in for a rude shock if you're ever at fault in an accident.

Unfortunately, there are people who are injured by unlicensed drivers, and they basically have to sue and bankrupt the unlicensed driver to get anything - because, as Diamondback said, no license means the car's 3rd party insurance is void...

So, I really hope you see the licensing system for what it really is - a flawed, but better than nothing system for vetting drivers and providing them permission to share the road with others, and manage the risk of that. If that means that its easier to fine drivers who take risks unacceptable to the rest of society, then that's a good benefit, not the primary reason we have a licensing system.
 
Sunder said:
Unfortunately, there are people who are injured by unlicensed drivers, and they basically have to sue and bankrupt the unlicensed driver to get anything - because, as Diamondback said, no license means the car's 3rd party insurance is void...
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Wrong wrong wrong in Practice.
I dont want to step on anyones toes here and yes if you dont have a licience you are not "ment" to be covered buy insurance but i can assure you 3rd party will pay out.

I know this from experience and dont wish to explain my total situation but unless someone rings your insurance campany they dont know crap about your current licencing situation and happily pay out for a car that was written off in a head on with another car.

Yes the Law states what most of you are saying but how does the current isurance companys know if your licience is not current?

Speaking from Experience here and a non licience holder since 2004 because of no fault of my own.
 
TotalConfusion said:
Sunder said:
Unfortunately, there are people who are injured by unlicensed drivers, and they basically have to sue and bankrupt the unlicensed driver to get anything - because, as Diamondback said, no license means the car's 3rd party insurance is void...
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Wrong wrong wrong in Practice.
I dont want to step on anyones toes here and yes if you dont have a licience you are not "ment" to be covered buy insurance but i can assure you 3rd party will pay out.

I know this from experience and dont wish to explain my total situation but unless someone rings your insurance campany they dont know crap about your current licencing situation and happily pay out for a car that was written off in a head on with another car.

Yes the Law states what most of you are saying but how does the current isurance companys know if your licience is not current?
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So what you're saying is that you just successfully committed insurance fraud? I wouldn't be boasting too loud about that if I were you...
 
Dude, Insurance fraud? lol thats like you telling everyone her you ride a totally legal ebike and your not committing any offences. Its ok for you to brake what laws you seem pointless isnt it

People on this forum can be so up themselves, maybe you all need to read this if it applies http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypocrite

People shouldnt judge others.
 
Also when you fill out the insurance forms it didnt ask for an expiry date or if it is current, it only asked for my licence number and the rest is upto them.
It was on a privately owned road but because it doesnt have a locked gate it is open for public use at their own risk it use to be.
I never lost my licence for doing the wrong thing i lost it for a speeding camera fine in a car ive never driven or owned in my local town why i was on holidays in Qld. this is why it all got screwed up because on my way home i was pulled over for a breath test in Coffs and found out then my licence had been suspended and they did me for driving whilst disqualified, 6 weeks later i went back to Coffs to court and got a 12 month suspension and it all went down hill from there. Busted riding my Ktm 300 across the road from one paddock to the next on my mates 350 acres, its ok to drive the tractor across but not a motox bike.
The fact is i should never had my licence taken from me and because it took 6 months for them to send the fine i wasnt around to deal with it and after 6 months the Cops wouldnt investigate it either, So NWA frock the police.
Oh and as for the insurance companys, Preach me that crap when you have given up your job to look after your partner after she got hurt at work and they just throw her aside and dont give a crap.
 
TotalConfusion said:
Dude, Insurance fraud? lol thats like you telling everyone her you ride a totally legal ebike and your not committing any offences. Its ok for you to brake what laws you seem pointless isnt it

People on this forum can be so up themselves, maybe you all need to read this if it applies http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypocrite

People shouldnt judge others.
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So the jay walker is a criminal just the same as a mass murderer huh? Now that I've committed one traffic offence, I might as well ignore all laws.

Good on you mate.
 
TotalConfusion said:
The fact is i should never had my licence taken from me and because it took 6 months for them to send the fine i wasnt around to deal with it and after 6 months the Cops wouldnt investigate it either, So NWA frock the police..
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You can still take that sort of thing to court and get it reinstated, but whatever...
 
Sunder said:
TotalConfusion said:
Dude, Insurance fraud? lol thats like you telling everyone her you ride a totally legal ebike and your not committing any offences. Its ok for you to brake what laws you seem pointless isnt it

People on this forum can be so up themselves, maybe you all need to read this if it applies http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypocrite

People shouldnt judge others.
Click to expand...

So the jay walker is a criminal just the same as a mass murderer huh? Now that I've committed one traffic offence, I might as well ignore all laws.

Good on you mate.
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I am not a lawyer but I am pretty sure Jay walking is not in the same class as murder.
The discussion here is about the 200watt limit not personal attacks.

I think we are lucky in Australia that "most" people get looked after when injured on the roads.
I still think we all need to take responsibility for our own actions legal or not.
Licences will not stop dick heads doing the wrong thing even taking them away will not change some peoples habits.

A big part of the attraction of riding an ebike is you don't need a licence and I often meet people on ebikes who have lost their drivers licence, allowing them to get around legally. If licences were introduced for ebikes would this close the gate on people trying to do the right thing and force them into more illegal activity?
 
Modbikemax said:
I am not a lawyer but I am pretty sure Jay walking is not in the same class as murder.
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Exactly my point - traffic infringements isn't the same as fraud.

Modbikemax said:
The discussion here is about the 200watt limit not personal attacks.
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Err, good thing that there aren't any personal attacks yet? I haven't taken any personal offense with anyone here yet, and I don't think I've accused anyone of being anything untowards? We've just been pointing out the holes in each other's arguments - admitted in a little bit of a heated way.

Modbikemax said:
I still think we all need to take responsibility for our own actions legal or not.
Licences will not stop dick heads doing the wrong thing even taking them away will not change some peoples habits.
Click to expand...

I guess this is my problem with the argument thus far. Imagine if TotalConfusion's insurance company DID check his licence, and decide not to pay out the other party. He doesn't seem like the guy that can pay out $20k for a written off car, and $750,000 for needing home care and rehab therapy for the next 5 years. (If that was the extent of the injuries). What then? How will he take responsibility for his actions?

When I first chose between a petrol bike and an electric bike, I chose electric, because a mate of mine - a traffic lawyer, told me about how many cases he was taking on with people first losing their licence, getting a petrol bike, then fronting court a second time for poor behaviour with that. Now that petrol bikes are outright illegal, people who have lost their licence through reckless driving (not the charge, the behaviour), will go for 3kw+ electrics and the same clamp down will happen with us.

This thread is my worst ebike fears - here's a person (TotalConfusion), having lost his licence, now boasting that he is driving without it, and defrauding his insurance company in doing it. This might border on a personal attack, but if the general public started thinking of electric bike riders as people like that, electric bikes are going the same way petrol bikes are.

Anyway, Happy New Year, ride sensibly, don't boast about breaking the law, and I'm sure we'll all have a great year in 2015 enjoying our hobby, flying under the radar.
 
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/man-fined-for-driving-esky-on-footpath-20150117-12sjpq.html
A Melbourne man is cooling his heels after being caught driving a motorised esky south-east of Melbourne.

Police from Hastings Highway Patrol pulled over the 29-year-old Rosebud West man as he was driving the 49cc esky along the footpath beside Point Nepean Road just after 5pm.

Police say the driver did not have a licence to drive the esky or any other vehicle.

He was issued with two infringement notices totalling $1476.
 
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/esky-rider-told-to-cool-his-jets-after-brush-with-law/story-fni0fit3-1227188903161

Mr Ryan said he also rode an electric bike and was told that was lawful as it did not have a petrol engine.

“The ironic thing is the electric bike can go heaps faster than the Esky can,” Mr Ryan said.
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Sunder said:
Modbikemax said:
I am not a lawyer but I am pretty sure Jay walking is not in the same class as murder.
Click to expand...
Exactly my point - traffic infringements isn't the same as fraud.

Modbikemax said:
The discussion here is about the 200watt limit not personal attacks.
Click to expand...

Err, good thing that there aren't any personal attacks yet? I haven't taken any personal offense with anyone here yet, and I don't think I've accused anyone of being anything untowards? We've just been pointing out the holes in each other's arguments - admitted in a little bit of a heated way.

Modbikemax said:
I still think we all need to take responsibility for our own actions legal or not.
Licences will not stop dick heads doing the wrong thing even taking them away will not change some peoples habits.
Click to expand...

I guess this is my problem with the argument thus far. Imagine if TotalConfusion's insurance company DID check his licence, and decide not to pay out the other party. He doesn't seem like the guy that can pay out $20k for a written off car, and $750,000 for needing home care and rehab therapy for the next 5 years. (If that was the extent of the injuries). What then? How will he take responsibility for his actions?

When I first chose between a petrol bike and an electric bike, I chose electric, because a mate of mine - a traffic lawyer, told me about how many cases he was taking on with people first losing their licence, getting a petrol bike, then fronting court a second time for poor behaviour with that. Now that petrol bikes are outright illegal, people who have lost their licence through reckless driving (not the charge, the behaviour), will go for 3kw+ electrics and the same clamp down will happen with us.

This thread is my worst ebike fears - here's a person (TotalConfusion), having lost his licence, now boasting that he is driving without it, and defrauding his insurance company in doing it. This might border on a personal attack, but if the general public started thinking of electric bike riders as people like that, electric bikes are going the same way petrol bikes are.

Anyway, Happy New Year, ride sensibly, don't boast about breaking the law, and I'm sure we'll all have a great year in 2015 enjoying our hobby, flying under the radar.
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Sunder you clearly have no idea and think your perfect, if you new all the cicumstanced you wouldnt open your mouth the way you do. I also have given up my job due to the new workers compensation laws and now have to look after my Partner who cant even shower herself safely after a work related accident that was her bosses fault.

If i had the money to fight my problem i would have but after selling my Car,16ft Boat and motor bike to pay for medical bills paying for a lawyer isnt going to happen any time quickly. You are most welcome to come look after her and ill go back to work and earn the monies need to pay for all this bullshit thanks to the goverment.
 
TotalConfusion said:
Sunder you clearly have no idea and think your perfect, if you new all the cicumstanced you wouldnt open your mouth the way you do. I also have given up my job due to the new workers compensation laws and now have to look after my Partner who cant even shower herself safely after a work related accident that was her bosses fault.

If i had the money to fight my problem i would have but after selling my Car,16ft Boat and motor bike to pay for medical bills paying for a lawyer isnt going to happen any time quickly. You are most welcome to come look after her and ill go back to work and earn the monies need to pay for all this bullshit thanks to the goverment.
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You know what's the worst thing I could say to you right now? "You're right. I'm a sanctimonious **** and spoke out of turn. The system is corrupt, and should be screwed over at any point possible. Bosses are just greedy capitalistic pigs with no care for their employees, and should be shafted whenever you can."

I'm not sure you'd ever understand why agreeing with you is the worst thing I could ever say to you. I'm not really sure I could be bothered explaining. Not the long version anyway. But the short version is that I used to do a lot of volunteering with various charities that looked after the disadvantaged. You could tell who you would see week after week, month after month, year after year, and who was just running through a rough patch.

If a person recognised that bad things happen to them, but are appreciative of the society that supports them and understands that mistakes do happen, they're usually gone within a few months, with a nice letter or a gift basket, thanking us for helping them. If a person said that their bad luck was from corrupt systems, insufficient welfare, exploitative bosses, and evil ex-wives - especially if they took they charity for granted - you knew they were stuck there for life.

You can take from that what you want.
 
Ive never had a legal electric bike and drivers license or not don't act too silly on shared paths or roads but one thing for sure is I'd rather be illegal on an Ebike than ride a stinking two stroke bicycle
 
The thing is Re: insurance, is they don't merely have to prove that you were riding an ebike that does not comply with the law, they have to prove that the non-compliance directly contributed to the collision. Given that our bikes can still be ridden at speeds eg 40kph on the flat without the motor and faster down hill. Basically, what this means is that if you are still traveling at 'bicycle' speeds, you will still be covered. If you crash into a car at 70kph, you might not be.
 
Architectonic said:
The thing is Re: insurance, is they don't merely have to prove that you were riding an ebike that does not comply with the law, they have to prove that the non-compliance directly contributed to the collision. Given that our bikes can still be ridden at speeds eg 40kph on the flat without the motor and faster down hill. Basically, what this means is that if you are still traveling at 'bicycle' speeds, you will still be covered. If you crash into a car at 70kph, you might not be.
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In what context is this?

If the other driver is at fault, you're probably right. Civil compensation law trumps everything else.

If you're talking about your own insurance, there are all sorts of clauses in the fine print to wriggle their way out of paying, almost certainly one of which is a definition of a bike which precludes any motor assistance.
 
It is commonly known that Canberra is more perverse than the other states, but mixing politicians with lycra and ebikes is just too much!
 

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Worst picture of Canberra. Ever.
 
About time they told Abbott & the LNP, to get on their bikes.
 
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