wineboyrider
1 MW
12s 15ah will fit in there, but my bag is starting to sag and I mean sag a lot...LOL. I am going to break out my mom's sewing machine this weekend and strengthen it up a bit. 8)
Bafang BBS02 750W Mid Drive on Craigslist Hardtail
- Thread starter teslanv
- Start date
wineboyrider
1 MW
12s 15ah will fit in there, but my bag is starting to sag and I mean sag a lot...LOL. I am going to break out my mom's sewing machine this weekend and strengthen it up a bit. 8)
teslanv
1 MW
Yep, Mine's starting to tear at the back strap as well... I figure if I get 1000 miles out of it, I'll be lucky.wineboyrider said:
I think my next frame bag will be something like Cellman's triangle bag.
wineboyrider
1 MW
Actually, if you just put 10ah or 4 lipos it seems fine, but the extra 2 packs causes wear and tear, but for the $14.00 I paid for it was worth it... 
teslanv
1 MW
hsosumi said:
It's just 2 Packs in Parallel and then three of those in Series.
Here are some pics:
First Step: 3 pairs of Parallel Packs: (note: REMOVE THE PARALLEL BALANCE LEAD CABLE BEFORE CONNECTING SERIAL HARNESS CABLE!)
Next step: Build A Serial Cable for the bike. Each of the output ends of the parallel Sets connect to a one of the bullet connectors in the Serial Cable.
hachiko
100 µW
Thanks for the detailed walkthrough of your custom battery pack, teslanv
I'm a beginner to the e-bike world and am looking to convert my titanium 29er hardtail to an e-bike via the 750W BBS02 kit with a hefty battery (preferably somewhere in the 20-25ah range).
I've done considerable reading in quite a few ES threads and am ready to make the leap to give it a go. I've considered just going with cellman's 25ah triangle pack, but given the long shipping times and costs, I'm considering doing a custom battery pack just like you did.
The setup I'm looking at is a 12s3p using 6 packs of 6s1p 8000mah lipo from HK.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__20647__ZIPPY_Flightmax_8000mAh_6S1P_30C_USA_Warehouse_.html
So completed it would be a 24ah 44.4v pack; 2 in series and 3 in parallel.
My question is, instead of doing parallel connections first, then serial connections as you've outlined in your build, would there be any problems with connecting the pairs of packs in series first, then the 3 packs in parallel?
And in doing so, I would need a series harness to connect 2 bat packs together
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18603__HXT4mm_Battery_Harness_14AWG_for_2_Packs_in_Series.html
And then a parallel harness to connect 3 bat packs together. I see harnesses for connecting 2 packs together, but do they make them in more than 2?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18604__HXT4mm_Battery_Harness_14AWG_for_2_Packs_in_Parallel.html
I understand I could go with http://lipoconnectionsolutions.com/Lipo-Harnesses-0quote.htm and do a custom quote here, but was looking to see if there was something simpler I could purchase off the shelf.
If not, is it possible to buy this:
http://www.progressiverc.com/parallel-6x-hxt-4mm-bullet-charge-cable.html
And then convert the banana plug end to become a hxt connector. Thereby creating a 6x parallel harness.
Also, I didn't see a bms in your setup. Any recommendations for what battery management system to use in this setup?
Trying to get this right as it seems working with Lipo can be quite a perilous road. Thanks for your advice!
I'm a beginner to the e-bike world and am looking to convert my titanium 29er hardtail to an e-bike via the 750W BBS02 kit with a hefty battery (preferably somewhere in the 20-25ah range).
I've done considerable reading in quite a few ES threads and am ready to make the leap to give it a go. I've considered just going with cellman's 25ah triangle pack, but given the long shipping times and costs, I'm considering doing a custom battery pack just like you did.
The setup I'm looking at is a 12s3p using 6 packs of 6s1p 8000mah lipo from HK.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__20647__ZIPPY_Flightmax_8000mAh_6S1P_30C_USA_Warehouse_.html
So completed it would be a 24ah 44.4v pack; 2 in series and 3 in parallel.
My question is, instead of doing parallel connections first, then serial connections as you've outlined in your build, would there be any problems with connecting the pairs of packs in series first, then the 3 packs in parallel?
And in doing so, I would need a series harness to connect 2 bat packs together
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18603__HXT4mm_Battery_Harness_14AWG_for_2_Packs_in_Series.html
And then a parallel harness to connect 3 bat packs together. I see harnesses for connecting 2 packs together, but do they make them in more than 2?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18604__HXT4mm_Battery_Harness_14AWG_for_2_Packs_in_Parallel.html
I understand I could go with http://lipoconnectionsolutions.com/Lipo-Harnesses-0quote.htm and do a custom quote here, but was looking to see if there was something simpler I could purchase off the shelf.
If not, is it possible to buy this:
http://www.progressiverc.com/parallel-6x-hxt-4mm-bullet-charge-cable.html
And then convert the banana plug end to become a hxt connector. Thereby creating a 6x parallel harness.
Also, I didn't see a bms in your setup. Any recommendations for what battery management system to use in this setup?
Trying to get this right as it seems working with Lipo can be quite a perilous road. Thanks for your advice!
teslanv
1 MW
hachiko said:
That is really your best solution if you want a battery that is "plug & play"
Technically connecting is series first, and parallel second will work, but I find that connecting parallel strings together first is more user firendly when it comes to charging, because you can leave your parallel strings attached to the packs, and just make one last parallel connection between the two 6s/24Ah portions of the battery.
My advice would be to either pay icecube57 for his expertise and skill in crafting custom wiring harnesses, or watch all of his videos and learn to solder and build your own. There is no other "off-the-shelf" solution that I know of for our applications. - I chose to study and learn, and I now have the confidence to build any kind of wiring harness, as well as troubleshoot when things might go wrong, and know when I have connected something incorrectly. You will probably spend more on the first one to build your own, but you will have gained invaluable knowledge about how it's done. If you lack the confidence to do it properly, then perhaps you might want to purchase a kit from Icecube57 so you have an example to folllow for future projects.
That is exactly the parallel harness I use to parallel charge my pack.
I don't use a bms with my set-up. however I balance charge nearly evey charge cycle, so a bms is not really required. I do need to pay very close attention to not over-discharge my battery, though, so I use a watt-meter, and keep track of my watt-hours consumed. - I also use a low-volt alarm like this: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...2_8S_Cell_Checker_with_Low_Voltage_Alarm.html
hachiko
100 µW
Thanks Teslanv, will go with Icecube57.
To summarize, the parallel-first-then-series connections would involve this:
(bear with me if I'm being overly explicit, I just wanna get this right and avoid possible pyrotechnics =)
I'm also reading this very closely to make sure I'm treading safely here. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=52240
(FYI for those who are also in the same bucket as I am)
For discharging:
1. Wire up 3 of 6s1p packs in parallel first to create a 6s3p pack which is 22.2v 24ah
(Will need 2 of these parallel harnesses from Icecube57 - possibly get these made to support 4 or 5 parallel packs in the future for expansion)
2. Wire up 2 of these 6s3p packs in series now to create the final 12s3p 44.4v 24ah pack for discharging.
(can be purchased off the shelf - https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18603__HXT4mm_Battery_Harness_14AWG_for_2_Packs_in_Series.html)
For charging:
3. Remove the series harness and wire up the 2 6s3p packs with a parallel harness to create a 6s6p 22.2v 48ah pack for charging
(https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__43768__HXT4mm_Battery_Harness_14AWG_for_2_Packs_in_Parallel_USA_warehouse_.html)
For charging:
I'm considering getting a charger like this:
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__11597__iCharger_3010B_1000W_10s_Balance_Charger.html
Since the lipos I'm getting are rated at 5C charge rate, this means I can safely charge up to 40amps (5 x 8aH). With a 1000W charger, and a battery capacity of 1065WH (44.4 x 24ah), this means the whole pack can be charged in about an hour? This seems great, but am I putting myself at higher risk of fire, shortened battery life or eventual battery damage charging at such a high rate? (even if the pack supports it)
The low-voltage alarm is a great idea. Going to get six of them; one for each pack.
Technically, I could use the parallel balance cable to attach just one of these alarms to all six of the packs, but it seems that doing this will monitor the average volt across all 6 packs; and won't signal the alarm if one of them happens to go below. Is that right? (For example, I could have one cell at 3.2v while the others are at 3.6v and the alarm wouldn't go off because the average 3.55v is still above an alarm threshold of 3.5)
Will also look into a watt-meter:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=55323
With the watt meter, i'm reading that there's an 80% rule if you want to prolong the life of your batteries, and avoiding over-discharging them. So, you just keep your eye on the watt meter to not consume more than 80% of your total battery capacity, right?
Thanks for all your help Teslanv!
To summarize, the parallel-first-then-series connections would involve this:
(bear with me if I'm being overly explicit, I just wanna get this right and avoid possible pyrotechnics =)
I'm also reading this very closely to make sure I'm treading safely here. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=52240
(FYI for those who are also in the same bucket as I am)
For discharging:
1. Wire up 3 of 6s1p packs in parallel first to create a 6s3p pack which is 22.2v 24ah
(Will need 2 of these parallel harnesses from Icecube57 - possibly get these made to support 4 or 5 parallel packs in the future for expansion)
2. Wire up 2 of these 6s3p packs in series now to create the final 12s3p 44.4v 24ah pack for discharging.
(can be purchased off the shelf - https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18603__HXT4mm_Battery_Harness_14AWG_for_2_Packs_in_Series.html)
For charging:
3. Remove the series harness and wire up the 2 6s3p packs with a parallel harness to create a 6s6p 22.2v 48ah pack for charging
(https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__43768__HXT4mm_Battery_Harness_14AWG_for_2_Packs_in_Parallel_USA_warehouse_.html)
For charging:
I'm considering getting a charger like this:
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__11597__iCharger_3010B_1000W_10s_Balance_Charger.html
Since the lipos I'm getting are rated at 5C charge rate, this means I can safely charge up to 40amps (5 x 8aH). With a 1000W charger, and a battery capacity of 1065WH (44.4 x 24ah), this means the whole pack can be charged in about an hour? This seems great, but am I putting myself at higher risk of fire, shortened battery life or eventual battery damage charging at such a high rate? (even if the pack supports it)
The low-voltage alarm is a great idea. Going to get six of them; one for each pack.
Technically, I could use the parallel balance cable to attach just one of these alarms to all six of the packs, but it seems that doing this will monitor the average volt across all 6 packs; and won't signal the alarm if one of them happens to go below. Is that right? (For example, I could have one cell at 3.2v while the others are at 3.6v and the alarm wouldn't go off because the average 3.55v is still above an alarm threshold of 3.5)
Will also look into a watt-meter:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=55323
With the watt meter, i'm reading that there's an 80% rule if you want to prolong the life of your batteries, and avoiding over-discharging them. So, you just keep your eye on the watt meter to not consume more than 80% of your total battery capacity, right?
Thanks for all your help Teslanv!
teslanv
1 MW
You're on the right path with one HUGE exception.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU HAVE THE PARALLEL BALANCE LEAD CABLE ATTACHED TO THE PACKS AT THE SAME TIME AS THE SERIAL CABLE.
This will create a short as soon as you plug in the cable and burn the S#*t out of your hands, and quite possibly the light off the battery as well.
This is the one operation you need to be very careful about with serial discharge & Parallel charging. Keep the Serial Cable attached to the bike and the parallel balance leads attached to the charger and never mix the two.
So it goes like this:
TO REMOVE FROM BIKE & CHARGE:
1. Disconnect Serial Cable from battery packs.
2. Plug Parallel Charge Leads into charger (or ALWAYS leave them connected to the charger)
3. Plug the Parallel balance leads into the charger. (or ALWAYS leave them connected to the charger)
4. Double check that serial cable is disconnected from the battery packs.
5. Connect the Battery packs to the parallel charge leads. (Cascading parallel leads are OK here, as long as ALL WIRING IS PARALLEL)
6. Connect the parallel balance leads to the battery packs.
7. Charge your packs (1S6P configuration in your case)
TO REMOVE FROM CHARGER & MOUNT TO BIKE:
1. Disconnect Parallel charge leads & Parallel balance leads from battery packs.
2. Double check that parallel balance leads are disconnected.
3. (optional, but good advice) Plug in LVC alarms (one alarm on each pack)
4. Plug Serial cable into battery packs (or in your case to the output end of each 3P parallel harness.)
The major risk you take with using LiPo (or any battery type) without a BMS is that you could forget to follow the proper connection procedure when changing from bike to charger, and vice versa. - The good news it that you will know right away if you did something wrong, as it will spark and get very hot, very quickly. - if that happens just start pulling the harnesses apart as fast as you can, starting with the one you plugged in last. - also if the metal connection welds together from the heat, the solder will melt as well, so you should still be able to get the wires apart.
Have I scared you sufficiently yet?
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU HAVE THE PARALLEL BALANCE LEAD CABLE ATTACHED TO THE PACKS AT THE SAME TIME AS THE SERIAL CABLE.
This will create a short as soon as you plug in the cable and burn the S#*t out of your hands, and quite possibly the light off the battery as well.
This is the one operation you need to be very careful about with serial discharge & Parallel charging. Keep the Serial Cable attached to the bike and the parallel balance leads attached to the charger and never mix the two.
So it goes like this:
TO REMOVE FROM BIKE & CHARGE:
1. Disconnect Serial Cable from battery packs.
2. Plug Parallel Charge Leads into charger (or ALWAYS leave them connected to the charger)
3. Plug the Parallel balance leads into the charger. (or ALWAYS leave them connected to the charger)
4. Double check that serial cable is disconnected from the battery packs.
5. Connect the Battery packs to the parallel charge leads. (Cascading parallel leads are OK here, as long as ALL WIRING IS PARALLEL)
6. Connect the parallel balance leads to the battery packs.
7. Charge your packs (1S6P configuration in your case)
TO REMOVE FROM CHARGER & MOUNT TO BIKE:
1. Disconnect Parallel charge leads & Parallel balance leads from battery packs.
2. Double check that parallel balance leads are disconnected.
3. (optional, but good advice) Plug in LVC alarms (one alarm on each pack)
4. Plug Serial cable into battery packs (or in your case to the output end of each 3P parallel harness.)
The major risk you take with using LiPo (or any battery type) without a BMS is that you could forget to follow the proper connection procedure when changing from bike to charger, and vice versa. - The good news it that you will know right away if you did something wrong, as it will spark and get very hot, very quickly. - if that happens just start pulling the harnesses apart as fast as you can, starting with the one you plugged in last. - also if the metal connection welds together from the heat, the solder will melt as well, so you should still be able to get the wires apart.
Have I scared you sufficiently yet?
hachiko
100 µW
Yes, sufficiently scared. Thanks.
It's no laughing matter and your step by step procedure and good practice rules (keep serial cable attached to bike and keep parallel balance lead attached to charger) is super helpful. Hopefully this will create a drama free and pleasant experience for my first time e-bike build and possibly others that might follow in your footsteps.
It's no laughing matter and your step by step procedure and good practice rules (keep serial cable attached to bike and keep parallel balance lead attached to charger) is super helpful. Hopefully this will create a drama free and pleasant experience for my first time e-bike build and possibly others that might follow in your footsteps.
teslanv
1 MW
I've got a custom bag in the works that will hold a dozen 4S hardcase packs. Got a gal sewing it up for me. Pics to come soon.wineboyrider said:
godsfather
1 mW
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2014
- Messages
- 18
Hi there,
reading your thread just as i published mine, i plan something quite similar to your project (which inspire me a lot, if i may say).
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=61583
battery part is the main issue right now... choosing the right setup...
waiting to see the new bag,
good luck,
Amir
reading your thread just as i published mine, i plan something quite similar to your project (which inspire me a lot, if i may say).
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=61583
battery part is the main issue right now... choosing the right setup...
waiting to see the new bag,
good luck,
Amir
teslanv
1 MW
Kingfish and I are working on the prototype battery bag tomorrow. He's got an industrial walking foot sewing machine. 8)godsfather said:
godsfather
1 mW
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2014
- Messages
- 18
tomorrow was 4 days ago
cal3thousand
10 MW
teslanv said:
I've seen your plans somewhere before. Link?
godsfather
1 mW
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2014
- Messages
- 18
there you go -
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=61583#p920263
though you could just click the link in the quoted text you've made
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=61583#p920263
though you could just click the link in the quoted text you've made
teslanv
1 MW
Here is a rough plan.
Currently about 1/2-way done with the prototype.
Currently about 1/2-way done with the prototype.
teslanv
1 MW
Here is a Very Rough Mock-up of the main shell of the battery bag prototype.
That's (6) 4S Hardcase Packs (444 Whrs) on the one side. The other side would hold another (6) 4S Hardcase packs for a total of 888 whrs.
View attachment 4
That's (6) 4S Hardcase Packs (444 Whrs) on the one side. The other side would hold another (6) 4S Hardcase packs for a total of 888 whrs.
View attachment 4
teslanv
1 MW
Prototype bag complete.
I can fit 20Ah in the bag and another 10Ah in the Triangle for 12S-30Ah (1.33Kwh) total.
I can fit 20Ah in the bag and another 10Ah in the Triangle for 12S-30Ah (1.33Kwh) total.
wineboyrider
1 MW
Me likey! 
darth_elevator
100 W
Teslanv, are you using the wattmeter you linked to at the beginning of the thread?teslanv said:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=55323
I'm thinking of ordering one and am wondering how you have it set up. Is it just in your battery bag, hooked inline between the batteries and the Bafang?
Thanks
teslanv
1 MW
Different label, but same watt meter.
I have it connected in line from battery to motor. The Display was mounted right underneath my Bafang Display.
IMHO, having this type of watt-meter is way easier than trying to wire up a cycle analyst, and almost as useful.
I have it connected in line from battery to motor. The Display was mounted right underneath my Bafang Display.
IMHO, having this type of watt-meter is way easier than trying to wire up a cycle analyst, and almost as useful.
Reuser
1 µW
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2014
- Messages
- 1
What is the battery connection for the BBS02 kit? I am trying to figure out what connector I would need in order to connect this kit to a lifep04 battery or a lipo battery. I am still deciding on which battery type to use for my ebike project. Very good info on this thread.
teslanv
1 MW
My kit just came with bare wires for the battery leads. I made my own Anderson Power Pole harness like icecube57 makes and sells here:
http://lipoconnectionsolutions.com/Lipo-Harnesses-0quote.htm
http://lipoconnectionsolutions.com/Lipo-Harnesses-0quote.htm
