Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

[tomjasz]

cheecky bloke have done 9000 miles(15,000km) on the 2.8kw cyclone kits with the same original motor

And you believe it? How many controllers and other problems in 9000 miles? ALL mi dives are more maintenance. Period.

Yes i have done over 9000 miles on my small AFT kit, so far i have replaced 3 sets of planetary gears at 10 gbp per set, numerous chains and cassettes all 8 speed so cheap again.
ZERO controller issues as its a Kelly.
only thing that took me off riding was an analyst issue.
I am not saying mid drives are less work as they obviously are, but lets give some credit where it is due.
It still runs and pulls like a train at 18s and 40a.
Darren the cheeky one.

Ah, yes but the poster was going on about a cyclone, not a Kelly controller. The devil is in the details. I do have a freeing that is getting excellent mileage out of his cyclone controller but also am aware of numerous fails. At the same time I'm having great luck with my BBS series motors.

All the best.

T

 

[drew12345]

Hi all. I have BBSHD and keeps coming loose. I even
Torqued to proper setting. It's tight but after riding for day, it gets loose. Anyone else?

It's trek fuel ex7 with 68 mm bottom bracket. I used no spacers at first and then added 1 space to see if worked but neither is working. I even used blue loctite.

I'd pull the little triangular plate of and make sure the serrated edges of the plate are digging into the frame. On mine it left clear indentations. I still had it loosen up though after a lot of jumps so I wrapped a hose clamp around the motor and another one perpendicular to it around the frame tube. No problems since.

You should be able to get the lock ring tight enough for the fixing plate to hold. But if all else fails here's a $20 solution.
http://california-ebike.com/product/bsb-1-bafang-stabilizer-bar-bbs0102-bbshd/

Thanks for tips. I notice he has one for full suspension. Anyone tried one? Pic?

 

[drew12345]

I bought full suspension version. Should be here early next week. Will post pic.

 

[drew12345]

Got the bracket today. Will send another pic after I install hopefully tonight.

 

[drew12345]

I did a review of the bbshd stabilizer from california ebikes in case anyone else is considering one.
[youtube]YF6kY_u4HxU[/youtube]

 

[newjazz]

Hello,
I have a bafang bbsHD that is only 4 months old and I am loving it. However a few days ago I noticed some drag when pedalling and without notice the system would shut down, no error codes and will only come back if I recharge my pack!
I am not exactly sure if it is a battery problem too because my 13s7p 30q pack read 46v from by multimeter when the cut off happens. Even crazier, Now I only get 30 to 40% range ! Any suggestions out there as to what my problem is?.....
Thanks,*

 

[Lurkin]

Either bum controller or battery. Little hard to tell which without swapping it onto something else to know which is screwed, but from what it sounds like, the controller has some sort of lvc cut issue? [that would be programmed.. but if you have ridden it without this issue, suspect a controller issue] Who did you buy it off? Have you contacted them to see if they can help out? Something like this is usually sorted out via the vendor....

In the meantime, if you have another bike to test the battery out on/ test a different battery on this one/ review wiring and test with a multimeter... I like to check this sort of stuff first just in case...

 

[Jkeum]

Hello,
I have a bafang bbsHD that is only 4 months old and I am loving it. However a few days ago I noticed some drag when pedalling and without notice the system would shut down, no error codes and will only come back if I recharge my pack!
I am not exactly sure if it is a battery problem too because my 13s7p 30q pack read 46v from by multimeter when the cut off happens. Even crazier, Now I only get 30 to 40% range ! Any suggestions out there as to what my problem is?.....
Thanks,*

I had a similar symptom without the comprised battery range about 100 miles BEFORE the mid drive failed. I was stranded between my house and my job and had to call my neighbor to pick me up. One thing I did notice is that the drive was quite hot to the touch. Perhaps it was a signal that there was something wrong inside the mid drive....too much drag, lack of cooling and failure of the inside gears. The noticeable thing was that the pedal actuation was not as smooth as before. Mine failed at around 1211 miles or something of the sort. Little more of 1 year old....not used since around June and began to use it again this Fall.

 

[Ykick]

Now over 2500 miles on BBS02 in a heavy use pattern and I can’t say it enough - DON’T LUG THESE SYSTEMS. If you do lug them, do so only under very mild power applied. I find it best to use the smallest crank wheel too.

What is a LUG condition? IMO, any speed where your legs can actually apply pedal power. If you can put power in with your legs you’re likely lugging the BBS02 drive/motor system.

Now, can BBS02 survive lugging in order to spin slow enough for leg input? Maybe? I think reliably, ONLY if reducing power to a very minimum.

With Luna 52V programming PAS 1 is still a little “too much” IMO but it doesn’t appear to cook/damage motor/internals on 100% duty cycle.

Spinning “freely” while under any significant power I’ve found an early 2015 BBS02 to be very reliable.

 

[Jkeum]

Now over 2500 miles on BBS02 in a heavy use pattern and I can’t say it enough - DON’T LUG THESE SYSTEMS. If you do lug them, do so only under very mild power applied. I find it best to use the smallest crank wheel too.

What is a LUG condition? IMO, any speed where your legs can actually apply pedal power. If you can put power in with your legs you’re likely lugging the BBS02 drive/motor system.

Now, can BBS02 survive lugging in order to spin slow enough for leg input? Maybe? I think reliably, ONLY if reducing power to a very minimum.

With Luna 52V programming PAS 1 is still a little “too much” IMO but it doesn’t appear to cook/damage motor/internals on 100% duty cycle.

Spinning “freely” while under any significant power I’ve found an early 2015 BBS02 to be very reliable.

If what I understand from the LUGging you are explaining....if I can pedal and add more speed to the BBS02 in any PAS setting....that means that I am straining the motor? This is something of an eye opener. What you are meaning is that if I can pedal faster than what the BBs02 can provide in terms of output....which is many types, the motor can be damaged, if I understand what you mean. There should be a clear, big warning about putting more than the drive can give which almost NO one tells users. Unbelievable. Mine is also a BBs02..48v battery. When I find out what the shop tells me, I will ask them about this lugging issue.

While it might not be part of this forum and discussion....I wonder if planetary, geared drives like the BMC are more reliable than these mid drives.

 

[Ykick]

Jkeum - unless I’m misunderstanding, if you can pedal faster than the drive system is spinning you’re not asking anything from the drive system? How can that possibly harm anything?

My caution with regard to LUGGING is that when you feel resistance via the pedals, DO NOT apply full power for any length of time.

Small amount of power is usually okay but full power while too slow motor RPM will heat things up harshly.

The motor is happiest under high power when my legs cannot add anything. When I can feel my legs adding something, that’s my cue to back-off the applied power either through the throttle or PAS settings.

People would really learn a LOT from running their BBSXX’s with a fairly accurate power meter. You’ll quickly understand the power forces involved and how strongly motor RPM affects them.

Now over 2500 miles on BBS02 in a heavy use pattern and I can’t say it enough - DON’T LUG THESE SYSTEMS. If you do lug them, do so only under very mild power applied. I find it best to use the smallest crank wheel too.

What is a LUG condition? IMO, any speed where your legs can actually apply pedal power. If you can put power in with your legs you’re likely lugging the BBS02 drive/motor system.

Now, can BBS02 survive lugging in order to spin slow enough for leg input? Maybe? I think reliably, ONLY if reducing power to a very minimum.

With Luna 52V programming PAS 1 is still a little “too much” IMO but it doesn’t appear to cook/damage motor/internals on 100% duty cycle.

Spinning “freely” while under any significant power I’ve found an early 2015 BBS02 to be very reliable.

If what I understand from the LUGging you are explaining....if I can pedal and add more speed to the BBS02 in any PAS setting....that means that I am straining the motor? This is something of an eye opener. What you are meaning is that if I can pedal faster than what the BBs02 can provide in terms of output....which is many types, the motor can be damaged, if I understand what you mean. There should be a clear, big warning about putting more than the drive can give which almost NO one tells users. Unbelievable. Mine is also a BBs02..48v battery. When I find out what the shop tells me, I will ask them about this lugging issue.

While it might not be part of this forum and discussion....I wonder if planetary, geared drives like the BMC are more reliable than these mid drives.

 

[Jkeum]

I got a phone call from my E bike shop and the deal is simple....They found some metal shavings that had become lodged in some gears. The part in question will cost $30 to replace but knowing how these things work, I get the impression that the unit is not reliable enough. One part that costs $30 and other parts might also be compromised. With the going rate of $80 an hour, which I feel is excessive, I do not think it will be worthwhile to get it fixed...and the fixing does not guarantee that the unit will become reliable. They also gave me other options such as get a donor motor and transferring my controller to it.....In total about $500 or I can even get a new motor for around $1000, installed. I am leery of speeding $1000 to get around 1200 worth of riding. Hardly worthwhile I call it.

So, I am contemplating going through a different round, perhaps a hub motor....and simply get different controllers and use the battery I own for this project. This route will cost me around $1000-thinking about a BMC motor...which ought to be more reliable. But I hardly think spending $1000 in the same proven design that for me just lasts 1 year is not justifiable.

Nor it is the fact that I should by a floor model with a Bosch motor for $2500-when I have got a more than decent bike.

Any opinions would be appreciated.

 

[tomjasz]

That seems to be excessive for repair costs. But then it can be a challenging job. I'm drifting away from mid drives and moving to MAC, BMC clones. I can't see spending the price for a BMC when the MAC from EM3ev is so reliable and the parts are cheap enough to keep at ready.

That said, you might try Doug at California eBikes for a repair quote. But if you're not a DIY guy on any level then maybe a hub drive is the better route.
I'm riding my hub drive more and finding I like it. Unless my BBS series repairs are simple I'll move to Geared Hub Drives and MAC. I like the fact they can be run from 36V-52V, the range of batteries I have.

 

[tomjasz]

I got a phone call from my E bike shop and the deal is simple....They found some metal shavings that had become lodged in some gears. The part in question will cost $30 to replace but knowing how these things work, I get the impression that the unit is not reliable enough. One part that costs $30 and other parts might also be compromised. .

Can you get them to be specific about which parts are compromised?

 

[Jkeum]

I got a phone call from my E bike shop and the deal is simple....They found some metal shavings that had become lodged in some gears. The part in question will cost $30 to replace but knowing how these things work, I get the impression that the unit is not reliable enough. One part that costs $30 and other parts might also be compromised. .

Can you get them to be specific about which parts are compromised?

The only thing I know is that it was not one of the nylon or composite gears but a metal one, thus of the metal shaving. The guy told that some teeth were missing. This makes me think that through time, something got loose and it developed play and when you have metal parts that develop play at high speeds, it will make the entire thing just go bad.

So, my mind is made up, if I choose to continue doing this E bike commuting, especially in inclement weather, I need something more reliable. I cannot dish out $1000 each year for such privilege. I think hub drives will be the answer. To make matters worse, they told me that they cannot be "bothered" working with hub drive kits I get from elsewhere. Meaning, I will go rescue the bike and I will call dealers of either MAC or BMC drivers and talk to them. I will vote with my wallet. Never do I believe that it is wise to repeat the same mistakes twice. If I were to spend $$$, I would spend it in a different solution. I hope that I can use the same battery I have now.

Paul

 

[tomjasz]

The only thing I know is that it was not one of the nylon or composite gears but a metal one, thus of the metal shaving. The guy told that some teeth were missing. This makes me think that through time, something got loose and it developed play and when you have metal parts that develop play at high speeds, it will make the entire thing just go bad.


Paul

It would be helpful to understand what they found. It's possibly a very easy fix. But if you are dependent on bike shops for all work then yes, find a shop that will take care of a MAC for you. Any motor can go south and depending on a shop is still expensive. It sounds like it might be a very easy fix, if the plastic gear doesn't need to be replaced. I tend to not blame motors for my inability to repair them, so I jumped right in. All the said, I'm moving to MAC as well. All my BBSxx bikes run very well but I know the day is coming when I'm going to struggle for parts. It's already a struggle sorting the versions and changes Bafang has made. Heck they make changes and don't tell their largest buyers.

Your battery will be usable with a MAC.

 

[drew12345]

Quick update on the bafang stabilizer bar. So far no issues. Still very solid.

 

[Alex07]

Postby Jkeum » Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:40 pm

tomjasz wrote:
Jkeum wrote:
I got a phone call from my E bike shop and the deal is simple....They found some metal shavings that had become lodged in some gears. The part in question will cost $30 to replace but knowing how these things work, I get the impression that the unit is not reliable enough. One part that costs $30 and other parts might also be compromised. .

Can you get them to be specific about which parts are compromised?

The only thing I know is that it was not one of the nylon or composite gears but a metal one, thus of the metal shaving. The guy told that some teeth were missing. This makes me think that through time, something got loose and it developed play and when you have metal parts that develop play at high speeds, it will make the entire thing just go bad.

So, my mind is made up, if I choose to continue doing this E bike commuting, especially in inclement weather, I need something more reliable. I cannot dish out $1000 each year for such privilege. I think hub drives will be the answer. To make matters worse, they told me that they cannot be "bothered" working with hub drive kits I get from elsewhere. Meaning, I will go rescue the bike and I will call dealers of either MAC or BMC drivers and talk to them. I will vote with my wallet. Never do I believe that it is wise to repeat the same mistakes twice. If I were to spend $$$, I would spend it in a different solution. I hope that I can use the same battery I have now.

Paul

Jkeum your real world experience sounds like lots of other bafang users on here, they only work for a short amount of time and quiet at the start and then are hard and expensive to fix and get noisy very soon. They are not meant to do lots of miles on them after all they are cheap chinese design to the lowest dollar. People should be weary of other posters always trying to make the problems sound easier and cheaper to repair then in reality. They often have a vested interests as they SELL these kits ! so they want them to sound easier to fix and more reliable... so in the end of the day you keep going back to buy new kits or parts ! which suits them $$$.. buyer beware.. either spend money on the most reliable mid drive kits AFT or LR or go to hub.. they are too much work and cost it seems to do lots of miles on.

 

[Jkeum]

Postby Jkeum » Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:40 pm

tomjasz wrote:
Jkeum wrote:
I got a phone call from my E bike shop and the deal is simple....They found some metal shavings that had become lodged in some gears. The part in question will cost $30 to replace but knowing how these things work, I get the impression that the unit is not reliable enough. One part that costs $30 and other parts might also be compromised. .

Can you get them to be specific about which parts are compromised?

The only thing I know is that it was not one of the nylon or composite gears but a metal one, thus of the metal shaving. The guy told that some teeth were missing. This makes me think that through time, something got loose and it developed play and when you have metal parts that develop play at high speeds, it will make the entire thing just go bad.

So, my mind is made up, if I choose to continue doing this E bike commuting, especially in inclement weather, I need something more reliable. I cannot dish out $1000 each year for such privilege. I think hub drives will be the answer. To make matters worse, they told me that they cannot be "bothered" working with hub drive kits I get from elsewhere. Meaning, I will go rescue the bike and I will call dealers of either MAC or BMC drivers and talk to them. I will vote with my wallet. Never do I believe that it is wise to repeat the same mistakes twice. If I were to spend $$$, I would spend it in a different solution. I hope that I can use the same battery I have now.

Paul

Jkeum your real world experience sounds like lots of other bafang users on here, they only work for a short amount of time and quiet at the start and then are hard and expensive to fix and get noisy very soon. They are not meant to do lots of miles on them after all they are cheap chinese design to the lowest dollar. People should be weary of other posters always trying to make the problems sound easier and cheaper to repair then in reality. They often have a vested interests as they SELL these kits ! so they want them to sound easier to fix and more reliable... so in the end of the day you keep going back to buy new kits or parts ! which suits them $$$.. buyer beware.. either spend money on the most reliable mid drive kits AFT or LR or go to hub.. they are too much work and cost it seems to do lots of miles on.

I have ordered a front wheel hub drive with torque in mind. It is a planetary drive branded Enduro, an improvement of the BMC motors. The entire kit with controller sans battery, I will use my own, will cost be around mid 900s.

In order to make this work especially for the front wheel....I need to take out the suspension fork of my bike, which sadly uses a Thru Axle design for both the front fork and the back. Being that nothing can be done to the back, I will install a chromoly Salsa 29er fork, which ought to be tough enough to handle the torque pressure of this motor. Being that my max speed has never been beyond 25 miles an hour, both the amperage and the battery will be more than satisfactory to make my E steed come alive again.

This is a lesson learned, I say no more mid drives for me from BaFang and I do not trust the Bosches. A burly planetary drive motor seems easier to deal with. So, I voted with my wallet. Never again, BaFang.

I cannot believe how many manufacturers or dealers are pushing the BaFangs everywhere. Not good enough for the performance given. Not reliable. Garbage technology on the cheap.

When I get my build back, I will upload some pictures.

 

[Lurkin]

Its unclear as to what has broken, or whether you are going ahead to get it fixed.

There's always the option of getting a diagnosis from the shop (including details of the parts) and coming back on here to see if we can find it cheaper for you. Its pretty unusual to have metal gear failures. Its either part of the clutch/large reduction gear, the crank shaft, or the motor shaft. These are the only areas in the unit with metal gearing. From memory, a failure of a crank shaft has been on here but was suspect to be under abuse?

Did you buy this unit from the same shop? how long/what distance ago? Did they offer a warranty? If you haven't done anything abusive or weird, it should be covered.

I let a failure get the better of me early on and equally became frustrated. However, both the vendor came to the party and support on here helped me understand what went wrong. If you can get past the disappointment, I think you will find this easier to solve. Please try and get the shop to give you photos before they put it back together. It will allow others to check out what the shop is telling you and give others a chance to know what failures occur. I have tried to document the things that commonly go wrong in the wiki for all to see.

When you look at other 'guts on the outside' options or actually take one of these apart yourself, it becomes very clear just how much is going on in there and what a tidy unit Bafang has managed to make out of it. I was pretty surprised and started to appreciate just how cheap these really are...

Lastly, if you want ultimate reliability a MAC is a geared motor... have you looked inside one? they usually have a form planetary gearing and clutch system.... There are also many cheaper options for the same thing? a direct drive is more reliable as again, it has less complication and moving parts inside yet comes with additional weight and so on. I'd strongly suggest you look into the insides of both online before you go further/spend more money.. obviously all options represent compromises but the last thing you want to do is spend more and win less!

** To be very, very clear: I do not represent Bafang or sell Bafang stuff or work for any ebike vendors.

 

[tomjasz]

Interesting turn, avid BBS users. Beginning to turn their backs...
My go to ride for the winter will be a front DD with studded tire.

 

[dustNbone]

I just replaced the large secondary gear on my BBS02 after about 3500 miles, when the drive finally "locked" up it was missing a few teeth. It had been vibrating on that spot in the crank rotation for a while, I knew something was up and should have looked into it before the teeth finally broke loose.

I know exactly why it happened, I remember briefly testing full throttle zero RPM performance shortly after I installed the drive. That is a stupid thing to do to an electric motor. The vibration started very minor, probably dampened by amount of grease I packed in there. But it still took over 3,000 miles to finally fail. And I totally deserved it.

Aside from that gear (I think it was $28 from Luna, they got it to me very quickly) everything else inside the BBS02 seems to be totally fine. I expected to find more carnage but nothing else seems to have suffered in any significant way. It took me under an hour to disassemble, clean, grease, and reassemble the unit, I didn't need any special tools.

The drive runs as good as silent again, and I have no reason to expect that failure to occur again if I continue not being a jackass. All told, I don't think there's anything unreliable about the BBS02 if you treat it with respect. The grease job they did from the factory was a bit disgraceful, but that was easy to remedy. That's about the full extent of what you should need to maintain on it though.

 

[Lurkin]

And yet vendors nor the manufacturer are providing a how to, or a recommended period for servicing (that I am aware of at the time of providing the goods). Most are not local either, so its not as if they are offering for it to be returned for servicing. This forum is about as good as it gets.

However, still far cheaper and tidier than many other middrive options... ho hum.

 

[alfantastic]

I just replaced the large secondary gear on my BBS02 after about 3500 miles, when the drive finally "locked" up it was missing a few teeth. It had been vibrating on that spot in the crank rotation for a while, I knew something was up and should have looked into it before the teeth finally broke loose.

I know exactly why it happened, I remember briefly testing full throttle zero RPM performance shortly after I installed the drive. That is a stupid thing to do to an electric motor. The vibration started very minor, probably dampened by amount of grease I packed in there. But it still took over 3,000 miles to finally fail. And I totally deserved it.

Wow, would have thought the nylon gear would disintegrate before the final drive cog

Just out of interest, what have you got your 'Throttle Handle' start current programmed at?

 

[dustNbone]

Wow, would have thought the nylon gear would disintegrate before the final drive cog

Just out of interest, what have you got your 'Throttle Handle' start current programmed at?

Start current is at 5%, but the PAS mode the throttle is set for is 100% Current/Speed, so if I crack the throttle it's going to try for 25A regardless of speed.

I think the main reason the nylon gear fails is because it gets hot from heat off the controller, the final (slower turning) reduction gearset has substantially more force acting on it. It also seems to be a pretty soft metal, the teeth that came off seem to have been quickly munched into bits, I never found any pieces bigger than maybe .25mm.