Baserunner V4 Z9 only works when connected to a computer

gracwheels

100 µW
Joined
Mar 30, 2023
Messages
9
Location
California

Reddit thread with a video of the problem.

I have no idea what to do at this point and I'm hoping someone can help me with this baserunner. It only wants to spin the motor when plugged into my laptop, it doesn't seem to throw any faults or error codes.

whenever I unplug it and take it for a spin the throttle does absolutely nothing. But when its plugged in it works like normal. As far as I have googled I seem to be the only person who's had this issue, does anyone else know what might be happening or has seen this before?

attached is my config for my baserunner. I am more than willing to provide any info that you guys may need.
 

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I couldn't watch the video, the jerkiness was going to make me vomit, so there may be questions below that were answered there.

What troubleshooting steps have already been done? (this will save us from having you do them again, and save us from writing them out)

Are you using the throttle directly connected to the BR? Or does it go thru a Cycle Analyst (or anything else)?

Do you have 5v on the throttle (and halls, if any), etc., when the BR is not connected to the USB/serial cable? You may have to unplug the throttle (and/or motor connector) to check the 5v at that point.

If not, is the controller's "keyswitch / ignition" (On/Off) wire (orange, in the WP8 connector, or in the 9pin, AFAIK) *and* the V+ wire (red) connected to battery positive, when the BR is not connected to the USB/serial cable? Whichever connector is used to get V+ and On/Off to the BR you have to leave connected, so you would need to unplug the other one to test it.

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>What troubleshooting steps have already been done? (this will save us from having you do them again, and save us from writing them out)

I have shorted the brake cable
I couldn't watch the video, the jerkiness was going to make me vomit, so there may be questions below that were answered there.

What troubleshooting steps have already been done? (this will save us from having you do them again, and save us from writing them out)

Are you using the throttle directly connected to the BR? Or does it go thru a Cycle Analyst (or anything else)?

Do you have 5v on the throttle (and halls, if any), etc., when the BR is not connected to the USB/serial cable? You may have to unplug the throttle (and/or motor connector) to check the 5v at that point.

If not, is the controller's "keyswitch / ignition" (On/Off) wire (orange, in the WP8 connector, or in the 9pin, AFAIK) *and* the V+ wire (red) connected to battery positive, when the BR is not connected to the USB/serial cable? Whichever connector is used to get V+ and On/Off to the BR you have to leave connected, so you would need to unplug the other one to test it.

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>What troubleshooting steps have already been done? (this will save us from having you do them again, and save us from writing them out)

I have shorted the ebrake control wire, I have messed the motor temperature settings and all the voltage cut off settings, ran it sensorless, ran the autotune countless times under countless settings, all of those things work perfectly with phaserunner suite


I'm using this connector which shorts the on/off switch so the baserunner will turn on when the key is turned on, I can confirm that the baserunner does turn on because of the red LED lights up.

>Do you have 5v on the throttle (and halls, if any), etc., when the BR is not connected to the USB/serial cable? You may have to unplug the throttle (and/or motor connector) to check the 5v at that point.

I have not check this, will report back if the values are different then whats expected, but I have no idea why this would be the case.

>If not, is the controller's "keyswitch / ignition" (On/Off) wire (orange, in the WP8 connector, or in the 9pin, AFAIK) *and* the V+ wire (red) connected to battery positive, when the BR is not connected to the USB/serial cable? Whichever connector is used to get V+ and On/Off to the BR you have to leave connected, so you would need to unplug the other one to test it.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, could you clarify?
 
I triple checked it, theres about a 4.1v going to the throttle when its plugged into the computer, and 0.5v when its not plugged in. Should I run a 3v power source to the signal wire while its not plugged in to see if it will spin it?
 
I triple checked it, theres about a 4.1v going to the throttle when its plugged into the computer, and 0.5v when its not plugged in. Should I run a 3v power source to the signal wire while its not plugged in to see if it will spin it?
The rear wheel spins when trrs is not plugged in 3v is applied to the signal wire
 
>What troubleshooting steps have already been done? (this will save us from having you do them again, and save us from writing them out)

I have shorted the brake cable
Shorting the brake cable (presuming brake signal to ground?) engages the brake, which prevents the controller from operating the motor. Unfortunately that isn't a step that's useful for troubleshooting a controller that isn't operating the motor. ;)

Ensuring that the brake signal is not connected to anything at all *is* a step that will help, as it means it can't prevent the controller from operating the motor. But since the system operates with the 3v signal as noted above, this step is unnecessary as it means the ebrake line is *not* being engaged.

>What troubleshooting steps have already been done? (this will save us from having you do them again, and save us from writing them out)

I have shorted the ebrake control wire, I have messed the motor temperature settings and all the voltage cut off settings, ran it sensorless, ran the autotune countless times under countless settings, all of those things work perfectly with phaserunner suite

The voltage cutoff settings must match your battery voltage range.

Motor temperature settings must match whatever temperature range you actually need the motor to operate within, based on what you see from the sensor in the motor.




I'm using this connector which shorts the on/off switch so the baserunner will turn on when the key is turned on, I can confirm that the baserunner does turn on because of the red LED lights up.

Ok. If the red LED lights up, it is on, and *should* have it's own 5v power available. (rather than possibly having to run off of the USB-serial cable's 5v--if the BR was running only off the USB-serial's 5v, then it would not be able to operate when not connected to it).

I don't think the USB-serial 5v has enough current available to run the BR, or if the BR's serial port is wired to be able to do this, but it's still a check that should be done, as if the BR has no 5v to the throttle/etc then they cannot operate.


>If not, is the controller's "keyswitch / ignition" (On/Off) wire (orange, in the WP8 connector, or in the 9pin, AFAIK) *and* the V+ wire (red) connected to battery positive, when the BR is not connected to the USB/serial cable? Whichever connector is used to get V+ and On/Off to the BR you have to leave connected, so you would need to unplug the other one to test it.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, could you clarify?

Well, I mean exactly what was said there, in reference to the specific signal names in the connector diagram. The BR requires both V+ and On/Off to be powered by the battery positive for it to operate. If you don't have battery voltage on both of those signals, it will not operate.
--If there is no battery voltage on either one, it has no power at all.
--If there is BV on V+ but not On/off, it has power to the FETs but not to the brain or throttle or motor halls (via the LVPS inside the BR that turns BV into 5v, etc).
--If there is BV on On/off but not V+, the brain/etc has power but the FETs don't, so they can't run the motor.
Only the second scenario is possible in your case, because it does operate when connected via USB-serial--but since it also operates with the 3v signal as you noted above, it's not what is happening here.
 
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I triple checked it, theres about a 4.1v going to the throttle when its plugged into the computer, and 0.5v when its not plugged in. Should I run a 3v power source to the signal wire while its not plugged in to see if it will spin it?
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The rear wheel spins when trrs is not plugged in 3v is applied to the signal wire

4.1v is below the normal level for a 5v supply line; it should have about 5v, usualy at least 4.5v. But if it's being powered by the USB-serial cable, then I'd expect a low value, because that's a lot of current to draw from that cable to power everything from.

If the 5v power supply line on the throttle (but not the one for the motor halls, etc) drops to 0.5v when the USB-serial is disconnected, then something is preventing the BR's 5v output from reaching the throttle (broken wire between BR board inside it's casing and the connector for the throttle, or a connector pin problem).

The 5v in general can't be broken, because it's used to power the brain that runs eveyrthing, and the motor halls--since the 3v on the signal wire is making the system operate as expected.
 
4.1v is below the normal level for a 5v supply line; it should have about 5v, usualy at least 4.5v. But if it's being powered by the USB-serial cable, then I'd expect a low value, because that's a lot of current to draw from that cable to power everything from.

If the 5v power supply line on the throttle (but not the one for the motor halls, etc) drops to 0.5v when the USB-serial is disconnected, then something is preventing the BR's 5v output from reaching the throttle (broken wire between BR board inside it's casing and the connector for the throttle, or a connector pin problem).

The 5v in general can't be broken, because it's used to power the brain that runs eveyrthing, and the motor halls--since the 3v on the signal wire is making the system operate as expected.
Sorry I just woke up! Thank you for all your help this has been super enlightening. I tested the hall sensor 5v terminals and they're reading a healthy 5v no matter what the state of the trrs connector. I was slightly off with my probs, after getting a good solid connection I was able to get around 4.5v with the trrs connected on the throttle side, and exactly 0.622v with it disconnected. Another person informed me online that there are 3 seperate rails for the 5v in the controller, each powering the different standards they have such as the pas or the ca3 or the 9 pin main. Could that be why the logic is running and there is no hall sensor error, and the hall sensor is running at 5v and yet the throttle isn't?
 
It sounds like the BR might be internally wired so that the throttle 5v wire is connected to the USB-serial's 5v line, but somehow *not* connected to the actual throttle supply line. I suspect this is a wiring error or PCB defect, but you would need to contact Grin Tech at ebikes.ca to find out how to check.

If you prefer, you can simply move the wire for the throttle's 5v to any other active/wroking 5v wire, such as the PAS 5v source wire, or the motor hall 5v wire, to bypass the problem with the throttle's actual 5v source.

All the 5v in the controller comes from the same regulator, the same source. The hall voltage is often a bit less than the other 5v, because there is often a diode in series with the hall 5v output, dropping it around half a volt. The PAS and throttle 5v are usually directly run off the same line as the MCU and other 5v electronics, no protections.

There is a 12v (or 15v) source that the 5v is derived from, but that's separate and if it werent' working neither would anything else. (including the FETs because their gate drivers run from that 12v/15v, so without it the motor doesn't run).
 
It sounds like the BR might be internally wired so that the throttle 5v wire is connected to the USB-serial's 5v line, but somehow *not* connected to the actual throttle supply line. I suspect this is a wiring error or PCB defect, but you would need to contact Grin Tech at ebikes.ca to find out how to check.

If you prefer, you can simply move the wire for the throttle's 5v to any other active/wroking 5v wire, such as the PAS 5v source wire, or the motor hall 5v wire, to bypass the problem with the throttle's actual 5v source.

All the 5v in the controller comes from the same regulator, the same source. The hall voltage is often a bit less than the other 5v, because there is often a diode in series with the hall 5v output, dropping it around half a volt. The PAS and throttle 5v are usually directly run off the same line as the MCU and other 5v electronics, no protections.

There is a 12v (or 15v) source that the 5v is derived from, but that's separate and if it werent' working neither would anything else. (including the FETs because their gate drivers run from that 12v/15v, so without it the motor doesn't run).
I've emailed grin and they've yet to get back to me, does anyone know a good way to get a hold of customer support? I think this is at the point where it should be returned. I would like to get the bike running with a different source for power but I have no CAS3 or higo connectors
 
Glad it's being sorted (even if it took a lot more time than it should). Let us know what happens after the repair or replacement. :)
 
I have today developed this issue on my Baserunner which has been in service without hiccup for about 4 years. This morning I was out in the rain and lost power at the bottom of a fast hill.
Back at home, the controller spins the motor when the TTL (trrs) cable is plugged into the computer; when it is disconnected, the motor no longer spins. Unlike the op, the 5v at the throttle connector _is_ there.

Edit: it was the motor. A spare MXUS XF07 is spinning fine without TTL lead connected. (This is the second of these motors to have halls fail on me in 4 years… )
 
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If it works with the autotune/etc, but has a hall problem, you should get a hall error of some type during the tests while connected with the program.

If it passes all those tests but still has a problem running, and you change the running mode to sensorless (mode 2 in advanced tab),, does it run normally (other than the usual gruntiness when starting from a stop)?
 
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