Driverkpk
10 mW
Building my 1st E Bike which frame and style works best???
Road bike, mountain bike, beach cruiser??
Steel, chrome moly, aluminum??
Thanks!!
Road bike, mountain bike, beach cruiser??
Steel, chrome moly, aluminum??
Thanks!!
bicycle frame???
- Thread starter Driverkpk
- Start date
biohazardman
100 kW
Depends on what you are building it for. How much weight will you haul, how many batteries? Is it for riding on the road, trail, commuting, hill climbing, racing, acceleration, top speed. ect... Your budget will play a large factor as will your perception of safety and often ego. I know that's not much help but there is so much available you have to narrow things down a bit before we can give you much in the way of useful information. You might look around here before you decide to see what others have done.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=235
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=235
wesnewell
100 GW
I've built ebikes out of 5 different bikes. Only common factor is I use nothing but bikes with steel dropouts. Wouldn't touch one with aluminum. If you're light and don't want a lot of motor, then a light road bike may be for you, but I wouldn't put a powerful motor or big battery on one. Moutain bikes are probably the most popular, but beach cruisers will also work well. Just a matter of preference. IMO, the most important thing is going to be the tires and wheels. That's whats between you and a hard road.
biohazardman
100 kW
I have built 3 e-bikes all medium power <3000W all have aluminum dropouts and rear motors. Ten thousand miles on Giant Trance3 40MPH+ capable V2S full suspension on off road unit 4K on a Schwinn 1990s era hardtail commuter 500W Goldenmotor without problems. Both bikes have a loaded weight of 250-265 lbs. If I were going for ultra high power and or heavy loads I would have to agree with wesnewell steel might be a better choice. The least expensive frames whether steel or aluminum are probly not the best choice for a long lasting bike.
NeilP
1 GW
Ahhh.. his 'n' hers.. how cute 
dogman dan
1 PW
If you use aluminum, then you need a torque plate, torque arm, or some kind of additional reinforcement. If it's really torquey, you need a real good torque controll device.
With cheaper steel bikes, you can often get away with just bolting on a hubmtor, provided you aren't running enough power to have much torque.
What bike? The generic answer for street riding is that it's much easier to use a steel bike for your first try at mounting a hubmtor kit. The best choices are often either a steel 21 speed MTB with only front shocks, or a beach cruiser with a 7 speed gear in the back. Use a rear motor kit. Carry the battery in the frame up front.
Another good approach for street is a longtail bike. Thats for if you need to carry cargo, or if you will need to carry a huge battery for very long rides.
Dirt ride bikes are completely different, and different approaches work best for different terrain and riders.
With cheaper steel bikes, you can often get away with just bolting on a hubmtor, provided you aren't running enough power to have much torque.
What bike? The generic answer for street riding is that it's much easier to use a steel bike for your first try at mounting a hubmtor kit. The best choices are often either a steel 21 speed MTB with only front shocks, or a beach cruiser with a 7 speed gear in the back. Use a rear motor kit. Carry the battery in the frame up front.
Another good approach for street is a longtail bike. Thats for if you need to carry cargo, or if you will need to carry a huge battery for very long rides.
Dirt ride bikes are completely different, and different approaches work best for different terrain and riders.
biohazardman
100 kW
neptronix said:
Aluminum dropouts, huge torque plates, 8000W.. powerful enough to throw a 270lb rider off the back of the bike.. I'd say that aluminum is strong enough for me
That looks like a mighty big chainwheel in the right hand pic how many teeth you got there?
Driverkpk
10 mW
Bike for commuting to work 18-20 miles 6'3 210lbs like to obtain 20mph flat paved trail.
biohazardman said:
Ykick
1 GW
Driverkpk said:
One way? If so, can you charge at work? Is there opportunity to get assistance (ride?) if you have a flat tire or suffer some other critical failure?
Often, motorcycle/scooter simply makes more sense for long commutes.
Driverkpk
10 mW
Round trip
Ykick said:
biohazardman
100 kW
Driverkpk said:
Well then you will be 60-70lbs heavier with the built bike so you need to choose something that will haul that much weight around long term. Something that fits and is comfortable. If you're younger a hardtail commuter type bicycle would werq fine else if you are old and beat up like me you might want something with full suspension as it's easier on the bod. Road bikes werq as well but do not ride so plush. Remember your life depends on the overall quality of your build. While you pick out a bike you will want to consider where you will put the batteries. If you want them in the triangle then choose your frame so it can happen. So many choices there are. Many 500W DD motors will get you to 20mph at 48 volts. I did my first build with one and after about 4K upgraded to a geared rear drive and a full suspension bike. So much more like a bike to ride with less weight on the rear and full suspension is much better although the extra 1K$ it cost was not so nice.
ken1645
10 W
Another factor to remember is brakes. Ideally you want disc brakes and the bike frame has to have a mount for them, like this
.
Only going 20mph is pretty slow though so you might be alright with V brakes. I'd still want disc brakes though (and regen braking )
Only going 20mph is pretty slow though so you might be alright with V brakes. I'd still want disc brakes though (and regen braking
)
dogman dan
1 PW
Beach cruiser or hardtail mtb, either one in steel will be ideal for that use.
Till you tell us, we don't know if you will ride street, or try to ride up a ski area. Your needs are easy, so you could do it on almost anything with two wheels.
10 miles each way should be pretty easy. Pick the one that will be the most comfortable to ride. Either type of bike can carry 36v 15 ah battery in the frame. Most direct drive motor kits will go 20-25 mph on 36v.
Brakes, for a typical 36v commuter, v brakes will be fine. Do avoid really cheap caliper brakes, and coaster brakes though. You don't need to spend a fortune on your bike just yet. Start out with something affordable, like under $300 new. Later on, you can decide if your needs justify a more expensive bike. You might decide your road is so rough you want full suspension, or you might decide you want a longtail for cargo, or something exotic like a recumbent or trike.
But the first try is always best to start with a less expensive steel 26" bike with a 7 speed rear gear cluster. Keep it simple the first time. Even the cheapest bike should be good for about 2000 miles of use at least.
Till you tell us, we don't know if you will ride street, or try to ride up a ski area. Your needs are easy, so you could do it on almost anything with two wheels.
10 miles each way should be pretty easy. Pick the one that will be the most comfortable to ride. Either type of bike can carry 36v 15 ah battery in the frame. Most direct drive motor kits will go 20-25 mph on 36v.
Brakes, for a typical 36v commuter, v brakes will be fine. Do avoid really cheap caliper brakes, and coaster brakes though. You don't need to spend a fortune on your bike just yet. Start out with something affordable, like under $300 new. Later on, you can decide if your needs justify a more expensive bike. You might decide your road is so rough you want full suspension, or you might decide you want a longtail for cargo, or something exotic like a recumbent or trike.
But the first try is always best to start with a less expensive steel 26" bike with a 7 speed rear gear cluster. Keep it simple the first time. Even the cheapest bike should be good for about 2000 miles of use at least.
Driverkpk
10 mW
Theres a 95' trek 850 track xc chromoly frame available to me what do you think of that bike for conversion??
dogman said:
"Best?"Driverkpk said:
That would be a completely custom frame made exactly to fit you and whatever you're going to put on it, and use it for.
Realistically, though...others already expressed it up above.
SniperGaulois
10 kW
if it's not for curb hopping, get any quality aluminium hardtail, just get one that is comfortable, that you wont be spread eagled on or something. any frame will do it's just the comfort, attachments for gear, and space for gear. just check out pics on the forum, any reliable frame is fine.
jkbrigman
10 kW
Driverkpk said:
Like This One? If so, I give it thumbs up for a 20mph bike.
If you need to go faster, you can add front fork shocks, shock absorbing seatpost, cushy seat, big tires. But at less than 25mph, you won't need to unless you are offroad or highways are extra-crappy where you live.
Disclaimer
I'm going to offer you my own personal version of "advice". I'll attempt to normalize my advice and try to keep my own personal prejudices out of it. Please, don't anyone read this and take offense or feel there needs to be a counterbalancing editorial statement from the other side - I'm not selling anything, I'm just trying to illustrate what the experience of building an ebike is like and what kind of decision making the ebike builder must go through as they quest for their Ideal Machine.
Motor/Controller/Battery
My personal experience is that with most motor equipment (regardless of type), most controllers, most batteries, at 48-52 volts you want to be right around 20-25mph. Why? This gives you the best compromise between speed and range. Much beyond 25mph, wind resistance becomes such a dominant drain on your battery that range drops dramatically.
Hubmotors are a good way to start. They are tolerant of overloading and don't require you to make any complicated mechanical changes to the bike. Most people will recommend a rear direct-drive hubmotor. Get one with a matching controller that is compatible with ebikes.ca Cycle Analyst. You don't want to have to figure out the wiring for a motor that doesn't match the controller, and you want the motor vendor to support you with both parts.
You can take liberty with what kind of battery you buy and match to the motor and controller, as long as it's the voltage specified for the controller. But it doesn't hurt if you buy the motor, controller and battery as a complete package. ebikes.ca is a good vendor for that, but there are plenty other vendors that offer complete packages. A front motor is OK for simplicity, but front motors are usually lower power than rear motors.
You must plan on buying torque arms, whether you go with a steel or aluminum frame. Buy them from the same vendor you get the motor from.
Absolutely plan to buy a new 7-speed freewheel if you are doing a hubmotor. Otherwise, your pedaling will stop being effective at 14-18mph. The stock crankset on that bike looks nice, like you can easily swap out the chainrings. You will eventually want to do that also. Being able to contribute power by pedaling at 18-25mph gives a huge boost to range.
First Electric Ride
Other than the new freewheel, don't buy anything else until after you have test-ridden the bike under electric power. You will want to come up with a "standard test course", ride your bike on it with a full battery charge, then post your results here. What you end up with for performance is going to dictate what your next purchases are. You will want to get feedback from E-S members on your results and figure out "what's most important to do next" from those test results.
What do I mean? Well, if you can't reach your speed goals, you'll want to prioritize "going faster", so you will buy things like new 11-28T freewheel and bigger (48-52T) chainrings. You might want to swap out for a smoother, higher-pressure road tire. (you'll want that anyway if you get knobbies on the bike but you want to do road riding)
If you DO reach your speed goals, then you'll want to plan to swap out/upgrade the brake pads, true up the wheels, make sure the tires/tubes are perfect, fill them with slime or stan's, and start thinking about charging, range and desired performances.
Build For Your Mission
If, like me, you plan to use the bike for commuting, you will want to immediately add fenders and rear rack. I like the SKS german fenders and the low-cost TransIt rear rack from PerformanceBike.com
Bike lights suck. Search the forums here for better lights. So far, I've found the best lights for ebikes on ebay.com. I power my headlight from the main pack and my taillight is a bright "regular" flashing bike taillight with two AA batteries. I don't yet have any good side lighting (although that's in the plan).
I like Schwalbe tires best, especially the reflective sidewall. But there are other good tires mentioned here, the CST Cyclops and Kenda Kwest stick out in my mind, but I don't think either has reflective sidewalls.
I use a plain pannier on the rack to carry my stuff to/from work. It's not optimal because of the added wind resistance, but the bike "trunks" that sit on top of the rear rack suck bad, and the pannier has interior compartments that are beautifully organized to hold tire patches, tire tools, CO2 cylinders, etc. I can also get a decent, usable pump into the pannier but not into the bike trunk. Someday I'd like to switch to a bike trunk but so far I've not found anything that I like as much as the pannier.
Good luck and please keep us posted on your build progress. Even just getting the bike and adding fenders or rack to it is progress!
dogman dan
1 PW
The trek should be very good very strong frame. Only downside I see is that the frame triangle is a bit small. This limits the size battery you can carry in that ideal spot, the front frame triangle. It should be old enough to be only a 7 or 8 speed. 7 speed rear gears are the ideal thing for a rear hubmotor.
jkbrigman
10 kW
dogman said:
Good advice from dogman. I tried 9 speeds to start (I had a 9-speed shifter) and I would call it a failure - I ended up abandoning that bike and going with one that had 7 rear speeds. The 7-speed freewheel, on most rear hubmotors, works better with "standard" rear dropout spacing of 135mm. You can spread the rear dropouts wider, but the extra 1 or 2 speeds are not worth it at all.
Also good advice on the frame triangle. YOu want to go for the biggest size of the bike you can find. Don't settle for a small frame if you don't have to, but on the other hand, if you *need* a small frame, rock on, and just size the pack to fit.
Dogman's advice on putting the battery in the triangle is good - i wish I'd said that in my msg. above. I started out with a battery on the rear rack and it was very unstable. I switched to a frame (triangle) bag and was amazed at the improvement in stability.
jbalat
10 kW
after riding a low power commuter type, lots of air pressure and trying to stay efficient, I ran out of power one day and had to pedal 3km with a slight breeze and light grade.
Several minutes later sweat pouring down my face and out of breath I decided that dual suspension, big fat tyres, low air pressure, and lots of power was the way to go.
Forget trying to ride an ebike without any power
Now I ride with a big grin on my face and the comfort of a Harley !!
It may take you several iterations but I bet you will end up there too... Trust me this is what you want
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=55352
Several minutes later sweat pouring down my face and out of breath I decided that dual suspension, big fat tyres, low air pressure, and lots of power was the way to go.
Forget trying to ride an ebike without any power
Now I ride with a big grin on my face and the comfort of a Harley !!
It may take you several iterations but I bet you will end up there too... Trust me this is what you want
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=55352
Driverkpk
10 mW
Exactly the bike in the picture 1995, its a larger 21" bike so hopefully the triangle will be big enough for my bag because that's a deal breaker. Picked the bike up for $80 so from what Im seeing thats a pretty good deal so if it doesn't fit ill buy a different bike. 7 speed freewheel will be added to my build list.
heavymetalthunder
100 W
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2013
- Messages
- 185
At your weight and speed, I would go with a full suspension steel mountain bike with street tires. They are a little heavy, but more durable. It will surprise you how fast some of these E-bike conversion can go and if you hit a bump at 20 MPH + speed you can really feel it on even a full suspension a bike and you can only image what the frame is going through. To keep up closer to the speed of street traffic, on average I travel easily in the 28 to 32 MPH range so I have to carry extra batteries.
dogman dan
1 PW
Depends on the bumps, and your back, if you really need FS.
My back is trashed from construction work, and my local bike route has water channels that at 20 mph become full jumps. For sure, I went full suspension nearly immediately. I could have slowed down though, but other bikes I built later without suspension kept hurting my back.
What's ideal for me now? One of these... And no, I don't even dream of pedaling this 120 pound monster unpowered.
My back is trashed from construction work, and my local bike route has water channels that at 20 mph become full jumps. For sure, I went full suspension nearly immediately. I could have slowed down though, but other bikes I built later without suspension kept hurting my back.
What's ideal for me now? One of these... And no, I don't even dream of pedaling this 120 pound monster unpowered.
