Bike frame and style recommendation for a winter commuter

[kafka-cloud]

Hello,

I am slowly planning a winter commuter build. Here in Canada, we get a few feet of snow every year and temperature can go up to 0 Farhenheit (-40 celsius).
Normally we have a -10 celsius to -20 celsius on average.

I am wondering if there is a style of bike which would be safer or better for winter commuting.

I plan on making a front wheel drive with probably studded tires. Rear rack for battery.

Is it better to have a bike frame which permits both feet to be flat on the ground when still on the seat. i.e. comfort/cruiser style?

Mountain bike geometry, a bit taller for deeper snow?

Is it better with smaller tire like 26'' or smaller tire like 20''?

What are your winter build for snow/ice commuting?

Cheers

 

[Joseph C.]

I've nothing really helpful to say - more so a question rather than anything else. What tyres are you planning on using? I have been lining up some Schwalbe Marathon Winters but I'm still undecided.

For such low temperatures you may consider wrapping your battery in some sort of insulating material to keep the range up.

 

[MadRhino]

That was my first build, that I used everyday last winter, and will ride for the next winter.

8 in travel FS DH bike, batteries in the front bag, controller in the rear bag. I would never ride a front hub build in the winter, but that's me...

It was set up 72v 50A then, now much higher at 100v 70A. I don't know if I will back up current setting, I will first try riding it in the snow like it is. My guess is that it will be spinning alot on starts.

I've built 2 other since, but this one definitely preffered for the winter.

 

[kafka-cloud]

MadRhino,

I have the same bike... I am just not certain I would use it for winter... all the slush and other things that could damage suspension and all the other parts...

I also have a feeling that a front wheel drive would actually drive better in the snow/slush.

I am not sure if I would convert an existing tire or use a store bought studded tire... Price wise, studding yourself

Found an interesting thread on another forum on bike component for winter riding.

http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-16372.html

 

[geetarboy]

Hey Kafka, I wouldn't reccomend front wheel drive for a winter bike, you wouldn't want to lose traction on your front wheel. I rode all last winter. When there was snow or ice on the roads, I rode my "slow bike"- 26inch rear 9c, 12s w/ a 22amp controller and schwalbe ice spikers. I was getting around as good or better than most cars on the side streets. However, I didn't go over 25mph. Yeh, I hate to see winter coming again, but it's easier to deal with if you're prepared for the worst.

Be Safe! - Mark

 

[Ykick]

My winter bike is FWD (front wheel drive) and it's like a FWD car. It can spin fairly easily and defintiely wash out if you use too much power in a lean. However, for winter snow I kinda like FWD cars and even my bike because I like being pulled through deep snow rather than pushed. It's sorta like a limiter too - if you don't have much traction you won't get going too fast for the conditions. Bottom line is that you gotta be able to stop safely too.

Many will disagree about FWD eBike in snow and slick surfaces so it's probably a personal preference. But, I've got both front/rear wheel drive bikes and my choice is the FWD.

 

[mrzed]

Totally agree with Ykick on the FWD for snow. One thing a lot of folks here forget is also just how many people actually ride 500 watt ebikes. At low power levels, a front hub power levels can be easily matched by human burst power at the rear wheel, so for snow, you can feather the throttle and the legs to balance traction. People also seem to forget that you can pedal these things, so if the front wheel is breaking and you have traction on the rear, move your legs.

Once you get to the motorcycle with pedals power levels, the traction limits of FWD become too much and only RWD makes any sense.

For myself, I run what I consider moped power level, or 1000-1200 watts. FWD only makes sense for me because I don't have to deal with much loose dirt or snow.

For snow, mountain bike all the way. For tires, it also depends on what kind of snow you are talking about and the type and maintenance of roads. Where are you in Canada? I'm guessing Ottawa/Montreal based on your temps. BTW -40 is actually the magic number where Celsius and Fahrenheit are the same. 0f is actually -18c

I've been a long term year round bike commuter in Vancouver, Toronto and one winter in Montreal (pedal only). Now in Victoria, I only have to think about the wet, but I know the white stuff pretty well.

In urban areas with a mix of bare pavement, snow and slush, bigger is not always better. Sometimes a narrower tire can cut through the loose snow or muck to reach harder ground with better traction underneath. In dry and/or deeper, cleaner snow, big tires are better.

 

[MadRhino]

I use no studs in town, roads are salted and cleaned, riding on pavement or light slush most of the winter days. The few times I had to ride on snow was not worth the trouble of studded tires, and was actually fun.

My main problem was brake calipers: Hayes 9 and Juicy killed by salt. Magura Big W and Gustav M are the best for braking power, precision feel, easy maintenance and durability.

Suspension suffered no harm, neither the freewheel or bearings. I had to replace the chain after the winter, and the rear derailer cable.

 

[itselectric]

Hello,

I am slowly planning a winter commuter build. Here in Canada, we get a few feet of snow every year and temperature can go up to 0 Farhenheit (-40 celsius).
Normally we have a -10 celsius to -20 celsius on average.

I plan on making a front wheel drive with probably studded tires. Rear rack for battery.

Is it better to have a bike frame which permits both feet to be flat on the ground when still on the seat. i.e. comfort/cruiser style?

Mountain bike geometry, a bit taller for deeper snow?

Cheers

kafka:

I have made a few video that talk about winter rider on ebike. Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZh-Kq3CbCQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7kYZlL6zUY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHvDmgbRTDA

Ken

 

[dogman dan]

Belive it or not, we had snow here once, two years ago. Taking my dirt bike out into 8" of wet snow over mud, I was quite pleased how well it worked. Not trying to haul ass, and it would be different on pavement. The snow melted off the roads fast, so I don't know about that. But I did find that the standard big knobby tires that work in sand worked ok in snow.

This bike was 1000 w on the rear wheel, and the fattest tires that would fit. FS frame. Rim brakes were a joke.

 

[miro13car]

I think step-through have advantage in winter over other frames that you can get of bike easy in case of near fall.
I ride in winter regularly and found out that with regular triangle frame it is much more chance that you hit ground with your sholder even before you noticed that you on the under snow ice patch.
Low center of gravity is even more important in winter so battery on the luggage rack is bad.
This winter I am getting sholder protectors also.

 

[hillzofvalp]

my understanding is that it is possible to modify existing tires with studs. I would like to learn more on how this is done, and the performance of doing so. I have some tires that I never use, and would rather pay $20 than $100+ for a new set. Can't wait! first winter with an bike!

How do holes in motor fair in blowing snow/snow storm? what about avid elixir pads? how fast and how severely are they damaged?

 

[mrzed]

The classic old school method of making studded tires was to put screws in from the inside. This was easier to do back in the early days of mountain biking when the standard tire had big chunky square knobs like old motocross bikes. Now, even the gnarliest tires typically have more shaped an often smaller knobs, but I bet you could find something that could work.

I can't see this performing very well though, and I never tried it myself.

 

[MattyCiii]

A bit OT, but the biggest thing that made cycling through the New England winter for me last year was a full face motorcycle helmet. I used a "modular", or flip-face type. Keeps the cold wind off the eyes and ears.

 

[MadRhino]

my understanding is that it is possible to modify existing tires with studs. I would like to learn more on how this is done, and the performance of doing so. I have some tires that I never use, and would rather pay $20 than $100+ for a new set. Can't wait! first winter with an bike!

How do holes in motor fair in blowing snow/snow storm? what about avid elixir pads? how fast and how severely are they damaged?

My Avid Juicy caliper piston seized because of corrosion from melting agent. The pads were lasting 2 month.

With the variety of studs available, no doubt one can do better than commercial studded tires. Yet, it would be expansive, time consuming, and short life expectation. Only performance and/or specific application can justify the job of doing your own studded tires.

 

[hillzofvalp]

did it RUIN your caliper? or were you able to un-seize it? Is the piston the thing pushing against the pad insert?

 

[MadRhino]

Yep, a piston is pushed by oil pressure, and pushes the pad against the disc, then return when pressure is relased. It was seized in the caliper body, I unseized it but it never worked smoothly again.

 

[dogman dan]

Maybe pos mechanical disk would be the best compromise for a "salt bike". Plus lots of some kind of oil or grease inside the mechanisim. For sure, rim brakes don't work in wet snow. My dirtbike has rim front brakes still, and they didn't work in snow.

Or, maybe the ideal thing would be a front motor on a bike with coaster brakes? Plus a disk on the front hub. Those cruisers can take a big fat knobby tire no problem too.

 

[BikeFanatic]

I need a new winter bike this year too. I like the ideas of step through bike and and shoulder pads for winter riding, good suggestions. I have been riding in winter for years, I have nokian extreeme studds tires. Mostly I mount the studded tire on the front wheel only. Ebike in the snow is alot of fun, but the salt destroys your bike.
I got my nokians at Bikeman in maine online shop.I believe they were 60$ back then, worth the money, and they lasted 3 winters so far. Carbide studs.

 

[kafka-cloud]

I decided to run my Norco six summer commuter for the winter. build thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26835

I purchased some schwalbe ice spiker studded tire. Price was reasonable (compared to lbs) at chainreactioncycle. There was a thread comparing these to nokians: http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-393147.html

I'll get a dc-dc converter and some magicshine lights.

Thank you for the video. Gives me a good idea how to waterproof bike for winter and in case of rain with some inner tube + tape.

 

[gogo]

Back in 1977 I rode a moped through an Iowa winter. We get 2'-3' of snow a year, and plenty of it is slushy. Being able to put both feet down as runners while sitting on the seat was an asset, but no good for pedaling. When I would encounter conditions for which I was going too fast, I'd put a foot down and scrub speed off in a powered 360 and then continue on. I think the moped had a top speed of 25MPH, so I think most of my riding was probably 10-15 MPH in slick conditions and all on regular tires.

Hub brakes were good for winter conditions, but the salt was not kind to the moped. They use a brine mixture on the dry pavement now that has a component meant to keep the stuff stuck to the pavement and its slick as snot.

 

[hillzofvalp]

how about making disc/caliper covers? or maybe adding a few wipers or small motor to brush off the rotors? I would hate to have to ditch the brakes I already have to ride in the snow.

I'm reading on bike forums that it is more common for the rear brake to have issues, either from less use or being hammered more by rear fender splash out.

 

[joe tomten]

My winter weather ride is a bmx, rear 9-C hub with the battery mounted on the handlebar over the front wheel for good weight distribution.

Studded Schwalbe Marathon Winter on the 20" wheels.

Seat post is adjusted down in slick conditions - so my short legs can reach the ground.

I'm happy with a single speeder in snowy and icy conditions (52t front, 16t rear) cause that is plenty fast.

When the roads are clear I'm back to my regular faster commuters.

I'm thinking of getting a layback seatpost to bring my c/g even lower- so it's more line the townie i have, which is totally stable at low speed. Bannana seat?

Front wheel drive in slick conditions is asking for real trouble and injury.
Rear wheel drive slippage is just fun.