Bonanza "Bulldozer" Dual PhaseRunner AWD

FYI
Hi GC,

The 5-speed 14-28t freewheel is 31mm in overall width/thickness, from the back of the threaded freehub to the outside of the lockring. The thickness of the cog stack only (from the back of the largest cog to the front of the smallest cog) is 26mm. The 7-speed 11-32t freewheel is 38mm in overall width, or 32mm if you're measuring just the cogs.

These measurements might be a few tenths of a millimeter off, since my calipers weren't long enough to reach over the large cog. But yes, the 7-speed freewheel is wider. :) Let me know if you have any other questions,

- Cycle 9
Click to expand...
 
Good to know.

I'm almost in DC tonite. Actually MD. Long day flying.

Anyway, I did some route work last night, my route goes from 100 to 1350 foot elevation. Most of it is a few percent, and then there's the steep part near work where it drops down over the ridge into the campus. Grade there up to about 10%.

I got some expert advice from one of the ebike places recently. Very helpful response. They didn't think the 7 speed would fit and recommended the 6 speed with the Nine Continents hub, or go to a geared hub which fits the 7 speed properly. They just don't recommend the 7 speed unless it is a steel frame that can be tweaked to make room for it.

So I spent a few hours researching the geared motors again. I like the stealth due to smaller motor size. I like the freewheeling though regen is generally lost but regen seems to be not worthwhile. But some of the geared hubs do seem to be unreliable, especially if much power is used. I would expect some maintenance is required. They are a bit short on power. They are more expensive. Most concerning for me are the failures.

After thinking about it for a couple of days I think reliability is quite important to me. If I start using this for transportation I want it to be rock reliable. Seems like a nongeared hub would be better in that department. The Nine Continents seems to hold up under pretty severe punishment.

So I think I'm still on track for a Nine Continents rear hub. Six or seven speed. I suppose I can start with the six speed and see how it fits and works. If I get 7 speed shifter and derailleurs then those will work with either, as I understand it. The only real disadvantage is the small cog not being as small as I might need. So at some speed I won't be able to pedal. That should not be a problem to start with.

The batteries should have arrived today, but I am not going to be there till thursday evening to see them. Looking forward to that.

I'm curious, what are folks using for BMS on the Headway cells? I'll do more searching but any suggestions would be appreciated.
 
I have a rear geared from Ampedbikes and it's doing fine. I ran 36 volt SLA's for the first 3 months and then orderd Ping's 48v/10amp battery and am loving it.

I purchased my bike in May and assembled it when I finally got the kit from Ampedbikes. Had to wait amost 3 weeks for delivery. But everything was there.

I purchased a Turnigy 130A watt meter and see that I use 13.xx amps when I am WOT and I also see that I use around 700 watts at WOT.

Have recently changed to 48 volts using Ping's 48v/10amp battery and it runs great. I got the 10amp because of the weight. I rode it one day to find out how far I could ride and it cut out right at 21 miles. I didn't baby it during the ride either. I guess I could have tried for milage, but I just wanted to enjoy my ride. haha Kind of wonder how 60 volts feels. :)

So far I've ridden my bike since May full time to work and back, averaging 125 miles a week. Takes about 35 minutes to get to work and it's 12.5 miles each way. I had a speedometer and it stopped working right at 2000 miles. Since then I have rode another month so I know that's another 500 miles. Runs great. When I installed everything I got a new bike and took my time running the wires and hiding the controller. Found the Topeak bag and rack combo and love it.

Personally I like the small motor as no one notices it ...
 
Alan B said:
Spent some time with Google Maps and their new bicycle routing system. It found a route that I suspected but never had worked out. Shaved 3 miles off my commute! That would make it under 10 miles!!! :D

Then I tried to get the vertical profile. That did not work. :roll:

Then I looked up the rules for these old roads in the park. Human powered bicycles specified. Electric bikes only for the disabled. SHUCKS!. :x

This route is really excellent. It takes 3 miles off and a lot of that is very narrow twisty 2 lane mixed with cars and makes it a pretty gradual climb. I suspect at
commute time it is pretty empty on these trails as well. But pedalling a 60 pound bike up this in the morning commute would not be practical I suspect.

In the evening going downhill it might be okay to pedal it (mostly coasting anyhow).

Of course if they don't allow an electric bike, does it matter if it is turned off?????
Click to expand...
Could you be considered mentally or physically disabled? After all, you are one of those wackos riding an e-bike. :lol:
 
ronnieb52 said:
I have a rear geared from Ampedbikes and it's doing fine.

...

Personally I like the small motor as no one notices it ...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the report. That is a lot of commute miles (2500). Your commute sounds a lot like mine only I have 1250 feet of vertical in 12.3 miles.

Have you had any problems with your system that caused it to quit working?

On reliability in general there are always flats (fun to fix on the road, especially in the motored wheel), electrical problems, mechanical problems, accidents. Wonder how often e-bike commuters have problems? Once per year, etc?? We have become accustomed to pretty high reliability on our vehicles.

The small size is one feature of the geared hub that is quite attractive. They pretty much hide behind the gear cluster / disc brake. Very stealth. The whine of the gears (a negative) seems pretty low by most reports.

What is the speed you get at WOT with 36V and 48V?
 
Evoforce said:
...
Could you be considered mentally or physically disabled? After all, you are one of those wackos riding an e-bike. :lol:
Click to expand...

That is a good question. Does building and riding an e-bike qualify one for mental? :idea:

It seems like after a few crashes the physical part might also be fulfilled. But if my history of motorcycle riding is any indication, I may avoid most problems there (knock on wood). In something like 100k of mostly commute motorcycle riding I had one very minor non-injury accident (a truck backed into my front wheel), plus a couple of times I dropped the 470 pound bike in dirt or gravel at a standstill, so the bike was not really even damaged. I tend to be pretty careful. I slipped a few times on wet pavement from oil or condensation but managed to avoid falling. I don't generally ride in the wet on purpose, but there were days where I got caught in bad weather. You just have to adjust your riding style to match the friction available...

Before that, while in college I used an old Schwinn 10 speed for my 6 mile commute. Not sure how many miles but never had an accident (that I recall). One time I pedaled through a left turn and the pedal hit pavement. I lost a foot or so sideways but managed to stay up. Very exciting moment.

I upgraded to a moped and put a few thousand miles on that. Had a couple of flats. No breakdowns and one accident, slipped on condensation early one morning and fell at about 25 mph. Helmet didn't touch the pavement but my down jacket was leaking feathers. My wrist was not broken but it hurt for a few weeks. Real happy I had gloves on. The Motobecane was pretty reliable (just had to change to a clean spark plug occasionally), but a killer to pedal the single speed 100 pound bike.

Then the motorcycles. Just about wore out a Honda 125. Great little bike but when the motor started making funny noises the shop told me how often those motors need rebuilding I didn't like that, so I bought a water cooled shaft drive Honda CX500. Not a race bike, but reliable as heck and plenty of power. Had a few flats but no breakdowns and I already mentioned the rest above.

Anyway, I don't mind spending some time building a decent e-bike, but once built I don't have time to do a lot of maintenance to keep it running and I don't have a lot of patience for breakdowns while commuting.

Thanks for the comments,
 
Since stealth is an issue, go with amped or ebikekits rear gearmotor. You won't need all the gears anymore, you'll only use the smallest three. It won't have the power of the 2807, that at 48v would easily push 1200 watts with a 20 amp controller. But you'll be a lot less conspicuous, and if you aren't going quite as fast as a 9c on 48v, that's less conspicuous too. If you want quieter stealth, then a crystalyte 408 rear would do the trick.

Be a courteous rider on the trail, and you will not be so likely to have people call in complaints with your description. Slow some to pass dog walkers, and use a bell to let folks know you are coming when they are blocking the path.

Later on, if you decide you want more speed, and the bike trail looks like you won't draw heat, then you can go 9c 2087.

If you are going so fast you need disk, you just lost stealth. But they do stop better in wet.
 
I was thinking disc more in terms of 1300 plus feet of elevation loss. According to one route analysis up to 11% in one part. Plus quite a bit of 6%. And in terms of safety in the wet. Plus the forks already have the mounting so it doesn't look like a difficult project. I don't plan to do it right away, just trying to understand what is needed.

I see there are two caliper mounting systems, but it looks like a lot of calipers come with an adapter. Presumably this will fit the mounts on the fork.

There are also more than one size of disc. So that needs to get sorted out.

Could buy a new hub and relace my wheel. Not sure that is cost effective. Wonder how much that costs. Versus buying a wheel already set up. The front wheel should be a good one. Very important wheel...

I do like stealth. Thanks for the motor suggestions. Most of those are on my list, though I have not looked at Crystalyte lately.

I'm also looking at ways to stealth the battery. Considering making a triangular pack for mid frame, and make it look like anything but a battery. Make a nylon cover for it. Mount the batteries in a pack using some aluminum flat struts and the headway plastic pieces, perhaps. Or maybe use a triangular piece of plastic, drill holes, tie wrap the batteries to that on both sides. Then cover with nylon.

Wonder if anyone makes a water bottle holder that fits on top of the top bar, like a cupholder, so the whole triangle is available (these Headways are bulky). Or I could use a hydration pack and avoid the bottles altogether. Do folks like those hydration packs??

I also wondered if the PWM or other motor noises especially annoy the dogs? Haven't heard that, but they are sensitive to higher frequencies.
 
My five dogs don't care about the noise; I think they just wanna chase the moving object. :) Even sitting in the living room fixing and testing stuff, they don't really respond to any of the noises the bike makes, unless I get squeaks from the (usually unoiled) chain if it's sat for a few days unused during damp weather.

I have a water bottle holder that fits on the handlebars, upright, and it works as a cupholder. :) Came off a pedal-trailer, single wheel, which should have pics in my kennel trailer thread I think.
 
Well, the hub motor/wheel kit is ordered. 9C 26". 35A controller w CA connector. Thumb throttle. Two torque arms. I'm going to have to see how the 6 gear cluster fits and decide if there is enough space for the recommended 7 gear model.

Next is to decide on battery setups. Made a foam triangle to test fit 16AH Headways. Not an easy fit. Also looking at imported A123M1 packs. A bit more costly than the Headways but probably pack smaller, have to look at that more closely yet.

Found a circuit I like for the low voltage cutout using the standard voltage OK/reset generator chips driving an optical isolator. Very few parts, especially if the output is fed into the controller's brake input.

If a Headway cell dies do we call it a deadway?
 
Alan B said:
If a Headway cell dies do we call it a deadway?
Click to expand...


Nope, you call it a typical headway. ;)

Just kidding, they actually make a fairly decent product for the money.



You will like the 9C, and the CA is a must have. You're starting off with good choices.
 
The easiest way to go stealth is the back panier that you have. This is the best setup that I have found. You order a LiFePO4 battery 48v 20ah at 345 x 140 x 140 which slides in a grocery store recycle cloth bag - I got mine from Canadian Tire because they had environmentally friendly / recycle written all over it. Buy some rubber exercise mat and use two layers on that pannier you have. Also velcro a layer around the sides of the battery (helps when you BUSH it). Cut a foam jacket to go around the BMS that sits on top of the battery. Add some plexiglass or plastic that has vent holes on top of the BMS foam then mount the whole arrangement with two velcro straps. Ductape a piece of plexiglass to the front of the battery to prevent it from sliding forward. Cut the recycle bag in half - half way down and slide it over the battery/BMS. The controller can get mounted on the underside of the panier or where I prefer it with a front motor - under the handle bars - covered with a bag that says "Tool Kit". I can post some pictures if you like this arrangement.
Nice part about this is that I bungie my other junk on top (coffee Thermos and lock) and still have room on the sides for laptop etc. It is the best place to have the battery if you do dump the bike when someone cuts you off = my Thermos was not so lucky. Oh and add some epoxy or BJ Weld around the joints of the panier near the axle to re-enforce it.
 
Controller is 36/48V 35A Infineon. Planning 12/16S. Probably in 4S (12V) blocks for utility and charging ease. So I can reconfigure for 36/48V. Planning 16AH Headways or possibly 4S8P A123M1 modules which is 18AH.

The triangle is about 15x19x24 which sounds large but when laying out the Headways it is tight. Was thinking of a Lexan triangle center plate with the cells tiewrapped to both sides and then covered with nylon, that appears too small for 16 cells but 12 looks doable. Possibly put 12 in the triangle and the remaining 4 on the rack. Turbo Boost.

I'd like to keep the rack clear for some cargo but perhaps it would be better to use panniers for my cargo space. 4 cells on the rack would not be very large.

I need to find a "high beam" handlebar switch for the Cycle Lumenator. I'm planning to use a different light for "low beam".
 
Thanks for the suggestions, Dave S. I'm sure folks here would love to see some pictures of your setup. Sounds like you have done a number of good things.

I was thinking of batteries in the rear, and I may get back to that, or start with it due to simplicity. Since I have a rear motor I'm trying to put some weight forward and keep the rear for the occasional cargo, but the rear mounts are easy and cover up the motor adding to the stealth aspect.
 
Maybe call a dead Headway a "Deadhead"! :)
otherDoc
 
Was doing some testing this evening on Headway fit. Found an interesting possibility. 8 cells fit nicely into an 11 inch case from Harbor Freight. These cases are pretty light and have handles and latches like a little tool case or briefcase.

So a 24 volt or dual 12 volt 16AH battery fits in one of these cases. Two are about right for what I want to do. They would provide some protection for the battery. They are black with aluminum band in the midline where they open. Have to take some photos.

The cells fit with enough room for something like BMS, fuses, connectors. Even when mounted in the Headway plastic racks and shorting bars, so that makes it really easy to put this pack together.

Very tempting...
 
This is what I am building to contain 72 volt 20 ah headways.P1010155.jpg Just started fiberglass today. What a pain. I don't hate doing many things but I HATE doing fiberglass. This is in my build thread (Evoforce bike build 3) in E-bike photos and video thread. I tried to find some vinyl hollow 2x6 fence rail in my area but was unsucessful. So I was left with other options but fiberglassing was the next best for this. Ick!P1010164.jpg. Do you know how fast you have to work with this stuff in 105 degree heat? Yiikes!
 
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