BRD RedShift electric motorcycles

I used to think the same way about it not being worth the added weight

Now I see the light. Have the charger and controller share the same heat sink. I am not talking about the complicated AC propulsion technique. You simply share the heat sink. The controller is sized for 30kw so maxing out J1172 is no problem

You could add 6.6kw fast charge for a couple pounds and offer it standard
This would cost maybe 200-300 bucks parts wise
The turbo charge could be an option at 16.8kw which maxes out j1772 at 70a
But probably 50a max is more realsitic for now without a liquid cooled battery
This would also enable charging at 50a rv outlets all over
Taper the charge
This is how you break into the market
 
flathill said:
I used to think the same way about it not being worth the added weight

Now I see the light. Have the charger and controller share the same heat sink. I am not talking about the complicated AC propulsion technique. You simply share the heat sink. The controller is sized for 30kw so maxing out J1172 is no problem

You could add 6.6kw fast charge for a couple pounds and offer it standard
This would cost maybe 200-300 bucks parts wise
The turbo charge could be an option at 16.8kw which maxes out j1772 at 70a
But probably 50a max is more realsitic for now without a liquid cooled battery
This would also enable charging at 50a rv outlets all over
Taper the charge
This is how you break into the market
Zero heat sink uses moving air to cool it so it will not work as well sitting still.
What EV are you using this method with? Its a lot of weight for the chargers them self's.
Not to mention finding space for all of it. I chose not to try to cram that on my bike. A MX/SM bike has no room for that sort of thing and can not handle the added weight with out slowing them down. Making the actual ride less fun. When I added the 6amp (.7kw) charging to the front of mine it went from floating power wheelies with me leaning forward to not! It was only 8lbs but it took away some fun for me!
 
Yes when you integrate a 4.5kw charger into the Mission Motors controller it adds 4.4 pounds exactly

So figure 1 pound per kw was state of the art on a four+ year old design

Now we have better switching devices

Alta and Zero could add 6.6kw integrated chargers to their own custom controllers and they would add around 3 pounds extra. Even if they cheaped out and it was 6 pounds big whoop. A race bike should not even have an onboard charger... Most of the mass is the heatsink. Why have two. The controller heatsinks on these bikes with the power we are talking are well oversized for any J1172 charger. The zero could even stick with passive cooling if they want. Why have two cases, two heat sinks, extra wiring, and on and on
 
BRD (now Alta Motors) Redshift in the newz again:
Alta Motors Electric Redshift MX Bike
Are electric dirt bikes the future?
December 17, 2015 By Donn Maeda

http://motocross.transworld.net/news/1000186156/
2016-Alta-Redshift-MX-01-600x400.jpeg


FirstRedshiftMX-5-600x400.jpeg


:)

Last paragraph:
Recently, the Redshift SM proved its outrageous performance by winning the IMS Sacramento round of the Supermoto USA race series held November 6-8. Alta Motors technician and pro racer Kevin Butler took the Redshift from the last place on the grid to first across the finish line in his first-ever supermoto race. The victory also marks the first time an unmodified, production electric motorcycle triumphed over gas-powered competitors
 
LockH said:
"Our battery is about 80 percent or five years ahead of the curve in terms of range per pound."

Oh really... :)
It was the easiest way to put 190Wh/kg TSL into terms that a non-technical audience could understand. :D
 
Our stacked honeycomb architecture allows for extreme energy density at 185 watt hours per kilogram, combined with a unique thermal wicking system to shed heat faster than any other lithium-ion transportation battery in production.

http://www.altamotors.co/technology/

Hmmm...
Powering the RedShift is a lithium-ion battery pack that uses 18650 cells similar to the ones used in the Tesla Model S.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S

*similar* to the Panasonic NCR18650B cell

Huh.
 
parabellum said:
What cells do you use in your pack? :D
It's an 18650 cell, but unfortunately I can't disclose specifically which one. Our tech is in the pack, where we have been able to take a sizable amount of the overhead and complexity out of the pack vs Tesla's approach to implementing 18650s. The TSL figures above (185-190Wh/kg depending on how much of the capacity we use) include all thermal, mechanical, battery data, and electrical management systems, anti-propagation, redundant HV contactors, DC-DC conversion for 12V 250W source.
 
ohio said:
parabellum said:
What cells do you use in your pack? :D
It's an 18650 cell, but unfortunately I can't disclose specifically which one. Our tech is in the pack, where we have been able to take a sizable amount of the overhead and complexity out of the pack vs Tesla's approach to implementing 18650s. The TSL figures above (185-190Wh/kg depending on how much of the capacity we use) include all thermal, mechanical, battery data, and electrical management systems, anti-propagation, redundant HV contactors, DC-DC conversion for 12V 250W source.
I absolutely love the Redshift. Its beautiful and looks like a real MX bike! Great job!

But why not flat/pouch cells?
 
Arlo1 said:
I absolutely love the Redshift. Its beautiful and looks like a real MX bike! Great job!

But why not flat/pouch cells?
Thanks for the kind words. The pack in our first prototype was made with pouch cells and was pretty good... but we saw an opportunity to get much further with 18650. In short, the energy density, costs, and thermal propagation resistance offered by 18650 made it worthwhile to embark on a 4 year effort to develop the technology, industrial processes, and partnerships necessary to produce a safe, reliable, robust commercialized pack from small cylindrical cells. No way we would have done it as a small operation or hobby, though. I don't know how anyone would.
 
Arlo1 said:
But why not flat/pouch cells?

Gunna guess has to do with flow of a liquid used as coolant for the cells. (But, that's just a guess. :) )

Earlier here:
ohio said:
LockH said:
*similar* to the Panasonic NCR18650B cell
Huh.
Not sure if that was a question or a statement, but if the former, lay it out for me and I'll try to answer.

Sorry Mark. Just an observation. (Exact/specific chemistry not exactly stated there. Or here... so far. :wink: )
 
LockH said:
Arlo1 said:
But why not flat/pouch cells?

Gunna guess has to do with flow of a liquid used as coolant for the cells. (But, that's just a guess. :) )

Sorry Mark. Just an observation. (Exact/specific chemistry not exactly stated there. Or here... so far. :wink: )
On the former, sort of. We have developed an approach and tech that allows us to pull heat out of the cells about 8-10X faster than Tesla's liquid cooling/system. That is one of the major pieces that allows us to have a drastically simplified 18650 pack. I can't say anything more than that publicly.

On the latter, yup, sorry, can't share the cell. We are under NDA with our supplier.
 
[youtube]RV536kQu4w8[/youtube]
 
"Electric Motorcycle Company Alta Motors Uses CLIP Fast 3D Printing":
https://cleantechnica.com/2016/12/1...mpany-alta-motors-uses-clip-fast-3d-printing/

The world of electric motorcycles is changing rapidly and it takes a nimble company to stay ahead of the competition. That means accelerating development cycles at a time when “new products, new segments, pop up constantly,” according to Fenigsetin. Alta has its own in house rapid prototyping lab that uses 3D printing to create new parts quickly so they can be evaluated for production. But it wanted to use 3D printing for production parts as well, so it reached out to Ohio-based 3D printing bureau The Technology House. TTH in turn put them in touch with Carbon, a California company in Alta’s own backyard, so to speak.

Carbon is revolutionizing 3D printing with its proprietary CLIP technology. CLIP stands for Continuous Liquid Interface Production Technology. Carbon says its process can produce finished parts 100 times faster than is possible with conventional additive printing methods. That’s the kind of speed Alta was looking for.

Once it learned about Carbon’s CLIP 3D printing process, Alta realized the technology could improve its electric motorcycles. Alta now uses a number of CLIP 3D printed parts such as a charger housing and a diagnostic tool enclosure. “We’re able to iterate with TTH over the Internet,” said Nick Herron, a mechanical design engineer at Alta Motors. “We send them CAD files, get parts, and iterate on them quickly. When we get parts from TTH, we do fit and mechanical tests; this is the first level of validation. Shock and vibration, ingress protection; this is a second level of validation.”

Not only does CLIP turn out parts incredibly fast, it is the first additive printing technology that can be used with high quality resins like rigid polyurethane (RPU) for the diagnostics and charger housings, and elastomeric polyurethane (EPU) for wire seals and grommets. “The material properties are a lot closer to manufactured parts, which gives us more confidence as we go into production,” Herron explained. “The parts aren’t brittle so we can do inserts or thread form without stripping or shattering the parts. We can seal grooves and keep out water, conduct pressure and spray testing, and ingress testing. With CLIP we have a lot more confidence when we go into production.”

Alta says the CLIP technology allows it to fabricate components that can’t be tooled, as well as one-piece 3D printable parts that incorporate different features and components. The company is now experimenting with designs that reduce the number of parts by making one part that can do the job of six, streamlining design to improve usability for its customers.

Alta has a very optimistic view of the electric motorcycle market. “There are 300 million motorbikes and lightweight vehicles on this planet,” Fenigsetin says. “At some point in the next 20 years, they’re all going to transition to electric.”

"CLIP" Continuous Liquid Interface Production tech. a first mention here in ES Bible. :)
 
Tesla founders-backed Alta Motors unveils new electric motorcycle:
https://electrek.co/2017/01/29/tesla-founders-backed-alta-motors-unveils-new-electric-motorcycle/

Alta’s Redshift was only offered as an all-electric supermoto/motocross, but the latest version of the motorcycle is a new street tracker: Redshift ST.

alta-redshift-st-12-1.jpg


Unfortunately, they haven’t released many specifications of the new bike. It will likely have similar features as the other Redshifts.

Alta’s other street-legal Redshift, the SM, is only equipped with a 5.8 kWh battery pack for about 50 miles of range. Hopefully, this new version will introduce a longer range option if it makes it to production.

The company is bringing it to the One Moto Show next week in Portland, Oregon, and we should know more about the street tracker then.

One Moto Show Feb 10, 11th, 12th 2017 — Portland, Oregon:
http://the1moto.com/
 
That was a great design, an ultra modern take on the cafe racer. I like it alot.
 
BST's... Yummy! I really dig the bike. I'm imagining that it'll add about $4-5K to the price of the road-going SM they have on the site. That is, IF they were to produce it.
 
Maybe someone had posted info about this already but I was crazy curious about that new battery pack, so I did a little digging on google patent a few months back and discovered all sorts of techy info on Alta motors (aka Faster Faster Inc.). Check out the links below:

Battery Assembly - https://patents.google.com/patent/US20160028059A1/en?assignee=Faster+Faster+Inc.

Thermal Insulation of Battery Cells - https://patents.google.com/patent/US20140234683A1/en?assignee=Faster+Faster+Inc.

Frame / Integrated Heatsink - https://patents.google.com/patent/US20150375596A1/en?assignee=Faster+Faster+Inc.

https://patents.google.com/?assignee=Faster+Faster+Inc.
 

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Thanks for the link, interesting info there!
126x4 cells (504 total) 3.2Ah checks out at 5.8kwh.

I'm a bit surpised about getting rid of heat mostly from the bottom of the cells. Having the two electrical connections on the same side must have needed some pretty extensive développement.
 
thoroughbred said:
Wondering if Alta builds its own motors or uses something like these:

https://www.dhxmachines.com/hawk40.html

Alta power train is completely proprietary, geared reduction single speed motor, high voltage, 300v.. more similar to KTM electric free ride than what you have posted.. (hope they get some new investors soon to keep these developments moving forward)..
 
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