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Brushless dual 6kw ALIEN Power system - electric longboard
- Thread starter beetbocks
- Start date
brunotollot
100 W
Hi.
The judder of them brakes is due to the ABS function. It is used by RC racinc car users. The point that the brakes isn't good sometimes is due to customers that play with the firmware. I said hundreds of time to ask before do anything with firmware-programs. Is few program software available and few firmware that are not compatible each other so if you mix them the esc will not work properly. (aggressive brake or not brakes at all)
About the Simon issues I have suggested a 50% setting due to the kind of road conditions he tell me and the ESC spec. Unfortunately I haven't sell the esc directly so i was not able to suggest, but I have trying to be helpful anyway. Brakes can be set on 100% if need. Was just a suggestion to doesn't stress the device too much. I have to give suggestions due to the tests we do all the time. This is why I never had people blow esc's. After that feedback I'll add a function on the program software for choosing standard or ABS brakes function.
Any problems is a right way to fix just by asking.
Regards
The judder of them brakes is due to the ABS function. It is used by RC racinc car users. The point that the brakes isn't good sometimes is due to customers that play with the firmware. I said hundreds of time to ask before do anything with firmware-programs. Is few program software available and few firmware that are not compatible each other so if you mix them the esc will not work properly. (aggressive brake or not brakes at all)
About the Simon issues I have suggested a 50% setting due to the kind of road conditions he tell me and the ESC spec. Unfortunately I haven't sell the esc directly so i was not able to suggest, but I have trying to be helpful anyway. Brakes can be set on 100% if need. Was just a suggestion to doesn't stress the device too much. I have to give suggestions due to the tests we do all the time. This is why I never had people blow esc's. After that feedback I'll add a function on the program software for choosing standard or ABS brakes function.
Any problems is a right way to fix just by asking.
Regards
As I have used pretty much every type of Alien ESC and motor I will try to clearly define the setting and firmware to be used.
The oldest alien ESC uses the APS setup software and can only be adjusted in steps of 25% and I have found that on the 63mm motors 25% brake is perfect ( on a dual diagonal setup)..great stopping power at high speed but not enough to throw you off. On the same ESC with 50mm motors I tend to use the 50% brake
The 2nd and 3rd generation ESC uses the the latest firmware and is programmed with the APS ( red) software( with auto start function).These can be adjusted In steps of 10% and on a dual 50mm setup I run 50% brake and again this is the perfect amount , on the dual diagonal 120mm tyred board I run 60% ,so really the best way to to play with different settings (within permitted parameters) until you get the best performance for your riding conditions just always monitor the hardware and be wary after changing settings for the first time
Many things can effect the braking performance including a single motor setup/ dual diagonal or dual rear,also the weight of the rider has a big effect as well as the size of wheels etc,etc.. We must remember these boards are essentially all prototypes so cannot be expected to work straight out of the box..but that's what we all enjoy about the build..the tinkering..
As Bruno points out if you program the ESC with the wrong software or reflash with the wrong firmware the braking can be very erratics as well as the acceleration..so if in doubt please just ask Bruno which to use .
I will test the new feature that Bruno is going to add that will allow the removal of ABS and I'll post the results as soon as I finish ..
The oldest alien ESC uses the APS setup software and can only be adjusted in steps of 25% and I have found that on the 63mm motors 25% brake is perfect ( on a dual diagonal setup)..great stopping power at high speed but not enough to throw you off. On the same ESC with 50mm motors I tend to use the 50% brake
The 2nd and 3rd generation ESC uses the the latest firmware and is programmed with the APS ( red) software( with auto start function).These can be adjusted In steps of 10% and on a dual 50mm setup I run 50% brake and again this is the perfect amount , on the dual diagonal 120mm tyred board I run 60% ,so really the best way to to play with different settings (within permitted parameters) until you get the best performance for your riding conditions just always monitor the hardware and be wary after changing settings for the first time
Many things can effect the braking performance including a single motor setup/ dual diagonal or dual rear,also the weight of the rider has a big effect as well as the size of wheels etc,etc.. We must remember these boards are essentially all prototypes so cannot be expected to work straight out of the box..but that's what we all enjoy about the build..the tinkering..
As Bruno points out if you program the ESC with the wrong software or reflash with the wrong firmware the braking can be very erratics as well as the acceleration..so if in doubt please just ask Bruno which to use .
I will test the new feature that Bruno is going to add that will allow the removal of ABS and I'll post the results as soon as I finish ..
The whole discussion of "ABS" is a crock... ALL car ESCs use the current generated by the motor spinning to generate backpressure or competing field - effectively the same as when you short the connections on your motor and spin it. This works in an ABS fashion because the current generated is proportional to RPM and the braking force is equivalent to that current so as the motor slows the braking force falls off ... when no spinning occurs no current generates and no braking occurs ... its just like ABS in cars but not really as it is just normal electric motor system behaviour. So all ESCs have "ABS" but it's not really ABS ... it's just the way it works.
Compared to an HK150A (the only ones I've used so far in my builds as Hobbywings are about 50% more expensive in Australia) the acceleration on the Alien, especially from very low speeds seems to be superior ... just a little better and smoother now I'm on new firmware. The braking on the HK150A though is smooth and buttery ... quite a joy, quite predictable and with lots of oomph if you turn it right up... the Alien is like riding over a bed of really rough stone while braking. I'm not sure if it is this fact or something else in the design but so far I've also lost 8 bolts due to vibrating loose on long rides in spite of using loctite. I'm upgrading to loctite blue to see if that is better.
On mods, I've turned down the inside flange of the motor pinion to allow it to clear all the motor mount screws. This makes for a much smoother experience as I need to get the pulleys right in to remove belt rub. This has made the ride much smoother.
A question, for those with the Holey mount system how much riser are you running? I am up to 1/2" risers now and I still get board rub on the motors in a turn.
If I were to recommend points for a redesign of the Holey bracket I would say:
- The motors need to be tilted away from the board a lot more ... at least 15 degrees, and maybe as much as 25.
- The bracket should be slotted and the motor plate tapped (instead of currently the other way around) to allow adjustment of belt tension without removing the wheel.
- The belt length need to be shorter ... even with the lame braking I am getting belt skip on belt I have already set to tight (to see if I could stop the skip).
- The bolt guide that locates the bolt which secures the mount to the truck seems to strain the bolt in so many ways it defeats even loctite. I got rid of this by using a cylindrical spacer to stand the bolt snug inside the Holey truck hole (two different sizes required) and just a washer then sprung washer. I have two of these now and they haven't come loose even without locktite (I cleaned out the thread so it bolts and unbolts freely).
- I have some old alien wheel pulleys with an inner flange on them to keep the belt from rubbing on the wheel. In the last few days I've already exposed the metal in a new belt with the newer pulley which doesn't allow this. Now there is not a lot a room here because of the size of the Holey truck so I've used a stick on teflon coated ring on the back of the wheel. It works really well at reducing wear and belt binding. Probably any slippery shim would do though and would be trapped by the belt.
Compared to an HK150A (the only ones I've used so far in my builds as Hobbywings are about 50% more expensive in Australia) the acceleration on the Alien, especially from very low speeds seems to be superior ... just a little better and smoother now I'm on new firmware. The braking on the HK150A though is smooth and buttery ... quite a joy, quite predictable and with lots of oomph if you turn it right up... the Alien is like riding over a bed of really rough stone while braking. I'm not sure if it is this fact or something else in the design but so far I've also lost 8 bolts due to vibrating loose on long rides in spite of using loctite. I'm upgrading to loctite blue to see if that is better.
On mods, I've turned down the inside flange of the motor pinion to allow it to clear all the motor mount screws. This makes for a much smoother experience as I need to get the pulleys right in to remove belt rub. This has made the ride much smoother.
A question, for those with the Holey mount system how much riser are you running? I am up to 1/2" risers now and I still get board rub on the motors in a turn.
If I were to recommend points for a redesign of the Holey bracket I would say:
- The motors need to be tilted away from the board a lot more ... at least 15 degrees, and maybe as much as 25.
- The bracket should be slotted and the motor plate tapped (instead of currently the other way around) to allow adjustment of belt tension without removing the wheel.
- The belt length need to be shorter ... even with the lame braking I am getting belt skip on belt I have already set to tight (to see if I could stop the skip).
- The bolt guide that locates the bolt which secures the mount to the truck seems to strain the bolt in so many ways it defeats even loctite. I got rid of this by using a cylindrical spacer to stand the bolt snug inside the Holey truck hole (two different sizes required) and just a washer then sprung washer. I have two of these now and they haven't come loose even without locktite (I cleaned out the thread so it bolts and unbolts freely).
- I have some old alien wheel pulleys with an inner flange on them to keep the belt from rubbing on the wheel. In the last few days I've already exposed the metal in a new belt with the newer pulley which doesn't allow this. Now there is not a lot a room here because of the size of the Holey truck so I've used a stick on teflon coated ring on the back of the wheel. It works really well at reducing wear and belt binding. Probably any slippery shim would do though and would be trapped by the belt.
I've just come back from a meeting with Bruno and it looks like i'm going to be super busy for the next few months.. ...
I've got loads of new electronics and batteries including the massive 10,000mah 6s-super flat (only 23mm),6300mah 7S and a new BMS (7s) -so the plan is to make a super range 6S and a nice single 7s with BMS .. onboard charging and small on/off switch
The new hand controls will arrive soon which are going to be a really nice item..with some awesome micro electronics in them..
I will also be ordering the new Precision caliber brackets -so they should be available in a couple of weeks
I've also got a new 10s sensored ESC for the scooter and the dual 63mm 10s is to be rebuilt with new motors and ESC...ohh and did i mention my 3rd child is to born in the next week..
SUPER FLAT 6S 10,000mah
7S 6300-and BMS
I've got loads of new electronics and batteries including the massive 10,000mah 6s-super flat (only 23mm),6300mah 7S and a new BMS (7s) -so the plan is to make a super range 6S and a nice single 7s with BMS .. onboard charging and small on/off switch
The new hand controls will arrive soon which are going to be a really nice item..with some awesome micro electronics in them..
I will also be ordering the new Precision caliber brackets -so they should be available in a couple of weeks
I've also got a new 10s sensored ESC for the scooter and the dual 63mm 10s is to be rebuilt with new motors and ESC...ohh and did i mention my 3rd child is to born in the next week..
SUPER FLAT 6S 10,000mah
7S 6300-and BMS
mikerush
1 µW
Beatboxs, this is my second read thru of this post and its has everything I need to get started.
Good luck on the delivery next week.
(I have my first girl on the way in July) I have 2 boys already.
Thanks mate
-m
Good luck on the delivery next week.
(I have my first girl on the way in July) I have 2 boys already.
Thanks mate
-m
Silenthunter
1 kW
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2013
- Messages
- 316
Beatboxs,
I have been looking for an 10S speed controller for my goped scooter. Can this esc handle it? How much would it cost?
Thanks.
I have been looking for an 10S speed controller for my goped scooter. Can this esc handle it? How much would it cost?
Thanks.
Silenthunter
1 kW
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2013
- Messages
- 316
Which one? Would it work for the Goped weight and load?
i emailed alienpower systems but no reply. Is there a better way to get in touch with them?
Thanks!
i emailed alienpower systems but no reply. Is there a better way to get in touch with them?
Thanks!
Well Bruno has being up late for weeks updating the the firmware and he's gone and cracked it!! The braking is not only super smooth and powerful and it now progressive like the throttle..the single drive stops you nice and smooth and the dual drive stops you dead in your tracks if you want to..very controllable!!
it just such a smooth easy ride now-it never feels like your over working the motor
[youtube]I8aJ3P2yxdg[/youtube]
it just such a smooth easy ride now-it never feels like your over working the motor
[youtube]I8aJ3P2yxdg[/youtube]
It works differently with the update.. The percentage doesn't really change the power of the brake .. Your finger dictates the power you get .. Bruno is working in trying to put a max limit on as it takes a bit of getting used to, especially as your fingers is trained to pull it on full .. Just a bit of practice is required
superpef
100 W
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2013
- Messages
- 126
Just did the update and WOW! Braking is so great! I'll have to tweak the code on my arduino a bit to use the whole travel of the joystick but it's already awesommme. I think the nunchuk is even better for braking as the joystick offers more travel and feels more like a progressive brake pedal. Have you tried a working nunchuk setup?
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