Calibike 18650 pack repairability

[arnie1]

Calibikes is offering a 48V 15AH Li-ion pack that looks like a practical plug and play commuter battery. From the label it is a 7p13s pack implying it has 91 18650 cells. (Battery label says 52 cells. I do not understand how a 7p13s battery can have 52 cells.) That seems like 91 chances for failure in a difficult to repair assembly. I'd like to get a Calibike pack but am gun shy. I gave up replacing tab pouch cells in my Ping and built a 48V 15Ah pack using 40162 Headway 15Ah cells with a Ping/Signalabs BMS. After a year and less than 100 cycles service five of 16 cells have failed. They were bought new and had an easy life of less than 1C service and 65% depth of discharge. The screw connection Headway cells are simple to replace but 5 out 16 cells failing is dismal. 2 cells spontaneously vented and 3 shorted out. What happens in a spot welded Calibike pack if a single cell shorts ? Can it be repaired? Or do you have a $500 paperweight?

 

[Electric Junk]

I have this pack and it's been ok so far about 10 cycles. Hit my voltage cutoff 40v and pulled 488 watt hours and 10.6 amps over 40 miles. A little disappointed with the actual capacity but it's enough juice to satisfy fun.

 

[trav]

I have one of these packs, too. It is alright, but if I were to do it again, I would have built it myself. Rafe sent me a replacement after my original battery was damaged during shipping, but he had me open the pack and check the bms. It is indeed a 7s13p pack with 91 cells total.

 

[999zip999]

How many amp controller can a 48v15ah support.

 

[wesnewell]

Ok guys, it's not hard to put together an rc lipo pack. I don't know how many cycles I have on mine because I don't keep track of them, but I've got over 2 years and 8K miles on my current 24s2p pack. I haven't had to replace any cells but if I did, it would be a simple matter of pulling the old 4s pack out and replacing it with a new one. Probable 3 minutes tops, including taping the pack back up. I never bought into the lifepo4 stuff. Too big, too heavy, and mainly too weak to get any real lifetime from it. I use an rc charger to charge mine, but today you can get bms's that work with rc lipo if you want that easy charge solution. The only problem is that you have to build it yourself. That might an hour, or a week depending on what you know and what you build.

 

[babyhughie]

I bought the 48v 15ah battery from calibike.com and so far I'm quite impressed by it.. It does exactly what was expected. With the cheap yescom 1000w kit I get a top speed of 32mph. I haven't yet drained it down to BMS shut off but I can say that I rode 20 miles about 70% WOT and still had a half charge according to my display.

IMO this is the best pack you can get in terms of price and being able to put the pack on the charger and leave it their over night without worrying about burning down your house..

With that being said I would reccomend this pack for anyone that is new to e-biking and knows little to nothing about batteries and bikes..

If you want a high power cheap pack and feel comfortable enough to charge and or wire a BMS then Li-Po is the best option for you. But for most the Calibike battery will suit you just fine.

Also I've had talks with Rafe the owner of calibike and am urging him to make a 72v 15ah pack... I don't want to mention price, but I will say it is a considerably less $$ than HPC, em3ev and Ping.. Plus he's located in the USA so shipping will be a lot less than buying from over seas...

As for me I'm undecided on what kind of battery I will buy next. The 48v 15ah will be gifted to my girlfriend so we can bike together.. I just need a little more speed

 

[arnie1]

I'm talking about a commuter battery. A battery for day in, day out use that won't burn down your house or workplace. A battery you can leave unattended. That isn't Li-Po. Can a Calibike pack be repaired? Will a single cell failure effectively trash the pack if you do not have the means to repair spot welded cells?

 

[docnjoj]

Calibikes is offering a 48V 15AH Li-ion pack that looks like a practical plug and play commuter battery. From the label it is a 7p13s pack implying it has 91 18650 cells. (Battery label says 52 cells. I do not understand how a 7p13s battery can have 52 cells.) That seems like 91 chances for failure in a difficult to repair assembly. I'd like to get a Calibike pack but am gun shy. I gave up replacing tab pouch cells in my Ping and built a 48V 15Ah pack using 40162 Headway 15Ah cells with a Ping/Signalabs BMS. After a year and less than 100 cycles service five of 16 cells have failed. They were bought new and had an easy life of less than 1C service and 65% depth of discharge. The screw connection Headway cells are simple to replace but 5 out 16 cells failing is dismal. 2 cells spontaneously vented and 3 shorted out. What happens in a spot welded Calibike pack if a single cell shorts ? Can it be repaired? Or do you have a $500 paperweight?

I'm surprised that Headway cells failed so often. Where did you purchase them?
otherDoc

 

[trav]

I never bought into the lifepo4 stuff. Too big, too heavy, and mainly too weak to get any real lifetime from it.

The battery from CaliBike is composed of LiNiCoMnO2 (NMC) cells. It is surprisingly light at 10 lbs compared to a Ping LiFePO4 battery, which weighs about 16 lbs at 48v 15ah.

I seriously considered Lipos, but I have to consider my neighbors. I live on the top floor of an apartment building that is practically made of match sticks. We did a little poking around in the basement of our building one day and noticed that the fire alarm system had a big tag from the fire marshall on it that read "non-compliant."

Also, I have 3 cats, 2 rabbits who love to chew, and a girlfriend whose middle name isn't grace. I have seen my bike fall over more than... five times? I just don't think it would be wise to go with Lipos until I have a better place to park and charge my bike that isn't inside the same structure I live in.

Regarding the repairs: name one thing in this world that cannot be repaired. If a row of parallel cells goes bad, you could always solder another row together, or you could perhaps use magnets (, or maybe you build a box that would hold the cells in using springs and cylindrical grooves. Get creative!

 

[wesnewell]

I'm talking about a commuter battery. A battery for day in, day out use that won't burn down your house or workplace. A battery you can leave unattended. That isn't Li-Po. Can a Calibike pack be repaired? Will a single cell failure effectively trash the pack if you do not have the means to repair spot welded cells?

I've been using my current 24s2p rc lipo pack day in and day out for over 2 years and 8K miles, and did the same with previous packs. I leave it unattended all the time, except when charging. Spontainious combustion of a lipo pack is probably more rare than being struck by lightning.
Any battery pack can be repaired from a cell failure as long as one knows what they are doing. That includes the calibike pack.

 

[999zip999]

If you run it to hard or to low to often, plus some repete going up big hills and kill a parelle cell bank. You can dremel it out and replace. That is your opion as I see it. Even thou I havn't seen a pack yet.
So what can you run a 48v15ah pack at. Leave answer in this post.

 

[dogman dan]

Wes thinks hobby king lipo is for everybody, it's not. I've got 5 years of using them under my belt, but I would never recommend them for somebody who needs to charge twice a day. As a semi retired guy with a job I work from home, I can dork around with them all they need. A busy worker needs to plug in and walk away while working or sleeping.

But 11 ah from a 15 ah pack is definitely disappointing. Clearly a dud cell or two got in there. The question is, is that a 10% of them thing or an all of them thing.

If its all of them that are undercapacity, then it's more likely an exaggerated cell capacity than a dud.

You others with one, how is your capacity? Can you measure it?

 

[dogman dan]

I am also wondering what was up with arnie? 1c use killed both a ping and a headway pack? Something is fishy here.

I did significant damage to a ping battery in two cycles, riding on a racetrack. At 2c max.

Though I just said I don't recommend HK lipo to commuters, maybe you do need the c rate of some hardpacks.

 

[arnie1]

dogman,

I wish I knew why my Ping and Headway's failed. They were not run hard and were protected with a BMS. The Headway's were bought new from a shop that did electric car conversions. He ran out but I found cells at Headway Headquarters that ships from a US location. The pack was kept charged over winter. Would that short life cells? I heard later that 70% charge state was best for storing LiFePO4 cells. arnie1

 

[Simple818]

@ Dogman or whomever, I have the calibike battery and am pleased with it. I would like to know how I could measure the AH without a cycle analyst? My commute is 14.5 miles at full throttle and I still have charge left and that is with a minor shunt mod with copper wire. Does this seem like 15ah or do I really need to perform a more reliable test?
I'm curious to know what my actual AH is.
BTW, Rafe from calibike has visited these forums I believe under the name Rafe.

 

[wesnewell]

You can measure battery usage and more with any watt meter. They start at ~$12 on ebay. Take your pick.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Radio-Control-Control-Line-/2562/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=watt+meter

 

[999zip999]

Hay Wes did you find them at 90-100volts ?

 

[wesnewell]

Horses eat hay. Hey, no, I didn't look for them. He's got a 48V pack.

 

[999zip999]

Quess my phone was just thinking of the horses of Texas.

 

[dogman dan]

So far I'm ready to recommend Cali to people. Very good to have a more affordable source in the US. But costs of business what they are in batteries, too cheap to be true could be that.

15 miles at full speed (above 25 mph) would often take more than 11 ah, so it sounds like that battery is dishing out a decent capacity. But only a wattmeter will tell for sure. Typically I would go about 18 miles if I rode 27 mph using a 48v 15 ah ping. It's real capacity was about 14 ah at that speed.

If they can dish out 13-14 ah, at high rate draw cruising 30 mph, that will be fine for the price. Since NMC cells are getting damn good, no reason to assume they can't.


I haven't seen the affordable watt meters be able to take more than 60v. They are fine for 48v packs.

If you are playing in the 72v on up range, it's time to buy a cycleanalyst. I had one of the ebay watt meters for a while, but it fried itself in less than a year. I replaced it with my third CA. I have no worries that it will fail.

No, you don't need to ride with a CA all the time, but the more you do it, the more you like having it. It's like having a real oil pressure gage in the car vs an idiot light. You don't need it really, but it's nice to have.

 

[Ykick]

As the name implies, when you wish to "analyze" your energy requirements the CA is the best tool for the job. Hard to bite off the initial price but once you do, you will not be disappointed. Or, if you find it isn't for you merely do a search in "for sale" marketplace - used ones don't stay around for long and they never ever go for cheap in nice condition.

You can do the Turnigy or Watt's up thing (figuring out how to see it while riding is often major bitch) add a Speedo and calculator.... Sure, you can get some relevant numbers but it's very limited when compared to ALL the benefits a CA brings to any EV application.

My 2 cents from someone who's tried practically all available options.

 

[dogman dan]

I have about 6 ebikes, but only three get used weekly. Had to have that third CA. Finally got the DP one for the cargo bike, and its really nice to have amp limiting on that bike now.

 

[dnmun]

since so many people use the headways and they have a great reputation for reliability it would help if you could document the current storage capacity of the cells you say are dead and the ones left that are good by doing a discharge test on that pack.

you should be able to repair a battery made up of those little lipo cans by soldering to the tabs if you don't have the spot welder or take it to a shop where they have a spot welder if you decide that is the only way.

but we need to know what and why those headways failed. that just never happens.

can you test the signalab BMS? are you familiar with how to test them?

 

[999zip999]

I'm still in the wish it was true camp. The price is good, small light mnc cells. Support 30amp controller ( bursts ) how hard - how long. He has given support.