Can't connect cycle analyst to macbook

[erikstunes]

I had the setup utility connected last year, then I damaged the cable and now I can't connect to the macbook. I have searched diligently for the answer both on here and on mac help sites, and the cable or cycle analyst do not show up on the devices connected to the mac, nor does anything change on the CA. I've updated and rebooted the utility and the mac os and there's nothing. The new cable is the same as the old one, grin USB-TTL rev2 which I purchase on amazon. Where should I look for troubleshooting information to start with?

Update: The cable/CA does connect to the laptop because it makes a sound when I plug it in, it also appears on WindowsXP running on a virtual machine but I can't find it on mac even trying several different approaches suggested on mac help sites and I'm out of time to fool with the computer. What do I do next? I really want backpedal regen, my current brake lever/brake switch is junk for one thing...

 

[amberwolf]

Unless recent firmware versions have changed things, any setting the setup program can change you can also change from the menus, other than the OEM display masks.

So you can just hold the right CA button to enter setup, then manually enter all the menus to do whatever you need to.

I do recommend writing down *every* setting you are going to change before you change it, so you can change it back if necessary.

Note that backpedal regen may require that your PAS sensor be able to send direction information to the CA. If it's a single-wire PAS it might not be able to do that. The CA manual / webpage / helpfiles have more info on that.


BTW, if you can access the cable running an XP VM, you can just run the CA setup software within that, right? So no need to run the mac version?


Or is there something specific that you must do using the Mac version that the Windows version or setup menus cant' do? (I don't know of anything, myself, but I don't have a Mac to run it on and test).

 

[erikstunes]

Unless recent firmware versions have changed things, any setting the setup program can change you can also change from the menus, other than the OEM display masks.

So you can just hold the right CA button to enter setup, then manually enter all the menus to do whatever you need to.

I do recommend writing down *every* setting you are going to change before you change it, so you can change it back if necessary.

Note that backpedal regen may require that your PAS sensor be able to send direction information to the CA. If it's a single-wire PAS it might not be able to do that. The CA manual / webpage / helpfiles have more info on that.


BTW, if you can access the cable running an XP VM, you can just run the CA setup software within that, right? So no need to run the mac version?


Or is there something specific that you must do using the Mac version that the Windows version or setup menus cant' do? (I don't know of anything, myself, but I don't have a Mac to run it on and test).

I don't have windows, other than XP running on a virtual machine within mac. Last fall I didn't need to do that, it seems like there would be a more straightforward way. But if necessary I can do that if the software works on Win XP

I want to upgrade the firmware to the new version which enables PAS activated regen as well as some other things. I've been through

 

[erikstunes]

I've been through everything that can be changed using the buttons, except the throttle settings I don't understand yet. I now try one change at a time, during a ride, if it seems to screw things up i change it back. I'm not 100% sure I'm back at grin kit settings now because of what I may have done year and I have emailed grin requesting the setup file. The new CA version 3.2 has new features including backpedal regen. All I have now is speed limit which is OK but sometimes I need to speed up for safety reasons, ie on the narrow bridge. I could turn the ca off and pedal hard or reset the speed on the ca pushing buttons. I want to leave the speed limit off and be able to modulate the regen. The auto cruise control feature might work, but I would like to have more control. BTW I have a twist throttle, lever won't work with my shifters. Modulating braking with the throttle does'nt seem to work, although sometimes it seems to brake near the lower limit of the throttle twist but not reliably, and very inconvenient to activate ebrake with the lever and then modulate it with the twist throttle. I could move the lever to the left, but it's a whole assembly involving a spring so the switch will close again when i release the lever. And I don't really want to buy another brake lever/s. I want to use the good brake lever I already have in a box

 

[amberwolf]

AFAICR, backpedal regen is just on/off at a preset level, and modulating regen still has to be done at the throttle after engaging braking. Youd' have to check the help file or FW version notes for the version you're using to be sure, though.

The reason why is that all the PAS sensor can do is tell what direction the cranks are moving, if it's not actually spinning the cranks it can't provide a count of crank speed and so can't base a throttle output (or regen control throttle output) on that.

A BB torque sensor can normally only detect torque if there is tension on the chain to cause tension on the cranks/BB shaft, so that can't do it in reverse either (unless you have a fixie with no freewheels, in which case you're already physically braking by dragging/skidding the rear tire by pedalling backwards or at any speed lower than road speed anyway, making regen pointless on a rear wheel, though not on a front wheel).

What I did for the lever / throttle thing that I think is also annoying is this:

how to make a proportional / variable regen ebrake brake lever

this project is for those that don't want to use a throttle to control braking force, and prefer a brake lever (perhaps because it is what you're already used to on a bicycle for braking, and if you've ridden as long as i have, it's so hardwired it could take years to change the reflex action...

endless-sphere.com

It uses a second throttle (cable operated) pulled by the brake lever, so that the regen braking is fully controlled by the lever, and no throttle operation by the user is required. The brake lever switch turns on the braking mode in the CA at the same time as turning on a relay that switches the CA's throttle input from the hand throttle to the cable-operated throttle, which is then pulled by the lever to vary the braking force. In my case it was all sufficient to give me full regen braking control voltage range, but if for some reason it isn't, you could add something to tune the throttle voltage input from the COT to do so, or alter the cable pull with a Problem-Solvers-Travel-Agent-like pulley.

Works fine for the Grinfineon (should work the same way for any of the other Grin products that use the 0.0-0.8v region for braking control, via the CA's throttle output).

It worked for me because I didn't have a brake controlled by the left lever anyway, was just using it for the switch in it to control my brake lights on SB Cruiser.

For systems with integrated shifter/levers, you could add a switch to the lever via a number of methods, from the HWBS cable-mounted type (the Gearsensor is basically the same thing AFAIK), or a reed switch or hall switch and magnet on the lever/body, etc. But pulling the cable for the COT would require a dual-pull lever to pull both a brake cable and it, or modifying the lever to pull two cables, or adding a dual-cable-puller at the lever (between it and the ohter two cables), if you can find one. (Some old BMX bikes use a form of this on the stem / steerer tube; it could be adapted to do it right from the lever if necessary).

So I'm not sure this solution would help you...but it's there to consider.

 

[amberwolf]

Regarding the on-CA menu settings: I was assuming you already had the firmware version on the CA that you wanted to use, which is apparently not the case.

In that event, you'd still need to use the setup program to flash the CA to the new firmware.

If you're running a VM on the mac with Windows XP, then you have Windows XP (it's in the VM), and if it correctly sees the CA via the setup program there and can read and write to it, there should be no reason you can't update the FW with it, unless Grin's documentation says not to for some reason.

Before you do the update, you should save your existing settings to a file, if they are working to do things the way you want with the present FW version on the CA. You can't load them directly back onto the CA, but you can run two instances of the setup program and hand copy the values from the old FW screen to the new FW screen. Annoying, but saves a little time (and some potential for mistakes) from writing them down on paper and copying.

I also recommend power cycling the CA *after* flashing the new FW, and *then* doing a complete reset on the CA to the factory defaults. Then power cycle the CA again before updating the settings to your new user-created settings (either manually or via the setup program). This helps ensure you don't have any "ghost values" in the CA for settings that will cause you problems (I can't figure out how it happens, but you can sometimes get values in memory that don't show on the CA screen *or* in a setup file downloaded from the CA that are corrupted settings, after flashing a new FW that has different settings available).

 

[amberwolf]

Regarding speed limits: If you need to bypass a speed limit momentarily, you can add a single momentary SPDT button wired with some resistors up to the Aux input as a preset button, to change from the default preset to a second preset. The manual / grin site shows how to do this for a SP3T (or SPDT center-off) toggle/rocker switch and three presets, but the wiring is the same for a button, you're just using it for two instead of three.

Then set the CA to use two presets, one of which has your speed limit and is the default preset, the second which is either unlimited or whatever your highest speed liimit desired is.

Press and hold the button for speed limit bypass, let go and go back to speed limit.

There's other workarounds too, but some of them will disable some CA functions momentarily (like putting a momentary NC SPST switch in the speedo line input to the CA...press the button to cut the speedo signal out and since the CA doesn't know what speed you're going it can't limit based on speed....but it also can't do any other function that requires a speed or distance travelled to perform).

 

[erikstunes]

I had the setup utility connected last year, then I damaged the cable and now I can't connect to the macbook. I have searched diligently for the answer both on here and on mac help sites, and the cable or cycle analyst do not show up on the devices connected to the mac, nor does anything change on the CA. I've updated and rebooted the utility and the mac os and there's nothing. The new cable is the same as the old one, grin USB-TTL rev2 which I purchase on amazon. Where should I look for troubleshooting information to start with?

Update: The cable/CA does connect to the laptop because it makes a sound when I plug it in, it also appears on WindowsXP running on a virtual machine but I can't find it on mac even trying several different approaches suggested on mac help sites and I'm out of time to fool with the computer. What do I do next? I really want backpedal regen, my current brake lever/brake switch is junk for one thing...

Update: I solved the problem. I tried the solution suggested on the grin instructions (not endless sphere (un)official manual) again and this time got it to work! Download virtual com port (VCP) drivers for mac for mac from FTDI, put both that and CA setup utility in the applications folder and then it finally worked. I don't know why that wasn't necessary last year

 

[erikstunes]

Regarding the on-CA menu settings: I was assuming you already had the firmware version on the CA that you wanted to use, which is apparently not the case.

In that event, you'd still need to use the setup program to flash the CA to the new firmware.

If you're running a VM on the mac with Windows XP, then you have Windows XP (it's in the VM), and if it correctly sees the CA via the setup program there and can read and write to it, there should be no reason you can't update the FW with it, unless Grin's documentation says not to for some reason.

Before you do the update, you should save your existing settings to a file, if they are working to do things the way you want with the present FW version on the CA. You can't load them directly back onto the CA, but you can run two instances of the setup program and hand copy the values from the old FW screen to the new FW screen. Annoying, but saves a little time (and some potential for mistakes) from writing them down on paper and copying.

I also recommend power cycling the CA *after* flashing the new FW, and *then* doing a complete reset on the CA to the factory defaults. Then power cycle the CA again before updating the settings to your new user-created settings (either manually or via the setup program). This helps ensure you don't have any "ghost values" in the CA for settings that will cause you problems (I can't figure out how it happens, but you can sometimes get values in memory that don't show on the CA screen *or* in a setup file downloaded from the CA that are corrupted settings, after flashing a new FW that has different settings available).

I'll follow your instructions on saving the current settings, thank you. I've emailed grin to ask for a file of the original settings that would have come with the kit, but have not heard back yet but the bike does work well in most respects so I'll go ahead. The PAS sensor has 4 wires, red black green blue, so I hope that will work. And thanks for the workaround on the throttle override of speed limits, I'll do that. The switch could even be built in to the throttle control perhaps. Now to find the right firmware version

 

[erikstunes]

As far as modulating the e-brake using back pedaling, watch this video. This is why I wanted to update my firmware in the first place, free up my brake levers for the mechanical brakes. In addition to back pedal to activate and modulate e-braking you can also use your three position switch in the new software beta

I am going to put on a push button as you suggested to enable overriding the speed limit, I think it will be perfectly fine on my left hand, so I'll do that first. I'll definitely save the file with my current settings before I upgrade the firmware to 3.2, but I'm going to go ahead and do the throttle override the button first and go for a ride
I wish grin would send the original kit settings file but i haven't heard back

 

[erikstunes]

I'll follow your instructions on saving the current settings, thank you. I've emailed grin to ask for a file of the original settings that would have come with the kit, but have not heard back yet but the bike does work well in most respects so I'll go ahead. The PAS sensor has 4 wires, red black green blue, so I hope that will work. And thanks for the workaround on the throttle override of speed limits, I'll do that. The switch could even be built in to the throttle control perhaps. Now to find the right firmware version

And yes the sensor has 2 control wires, as I can see in the setup on the ca

 

[amberwolf]

Update: I solved the problem. I tried the solution suggested on the grin instructions (not endless sphere (un)official manual) again and this time got it to work! Download virtual com port (VCP) drivers for mac for mac from FTDI, put both that and CA setup utility in the applications folder and then it finally worked. I don't know why that wasn't necessary last year

Glad it worked--best guess is your system had an autoupdate that broke the drivers in some way, or a library related to them.

Regardless of what the OS or hardware system is, it's very common for autoupdating systems to break more things than they fix (though most users don't know it's happened because they're not using those parts, or they just go use something else instead of the broken thing, etc), which is why I disable all updating on everything I have, and only do updates that are absolutely required for some specific thing I need to do that doesn't already work.

 

[amberwolf]

I wish grin would send the original kit settings file but i haven't heard back

I think they should keep those posted on the product info pages for each of the kits, etc.

(I also think all companies should keep all default settings, all versions of all software and firmware, etc., available in a library website like Archive.org that will still be around when that company goes byebye or has server trouble, etc...but this will never happen).

 

[erikstunes]

Well i hear you on the auto updating, I'm still using Microsoft money 98 because the later versions were much worse; found out they did it on purpose to keep users"in the program ''.

I want to try the ca 3.2 for the braking but I'm hesitant to do the update for for I'll mess up the bike

 

[amberwolf]

As long as you back up / write down all of your working settings from the CA first, and keep a copy of the firmware version you're using with them, you have the option to go back to the working state.

Just make sure to do a full reset of the settings to factory after any flashing of new firmware before putting your settings in, to make sure they're all at the correct starting points.

 

[erikstunes]

As long as you back up / write down all of your working settings from the CA first, and keep a copy of the firmware version you're using with them, you have the option to go back to the working state.

Just make sure to do a full reset of the settings to factory after any flashing of new firmware before putting your settings in, to make sure they're all at the correct starting points.

Yes, I went through all the settings yesterday while the setup program was connected and wrote down all that I was unfamiliar with using already. I'm comfortable to go ahead now, thank you. Unfortunately, I'm once again unable to connect. I ran FTDIUSBSerialVCPDextInstaller from the applications folder, where ca analyst is as well just as I did yesterday but no luck. I'll have to try to use the old winXP I suppose. It's been a while since I added any software to that but I'll do it when I get a chance.

I learned quite a bit going through all the settings on the help help menu of ca setup. I want a potentiometer now to vary the speed limit, that way I can control the pedal assist with digiaux as I do now, but be able to go faster with the throttle from time to time. Controlling regen with the throttle doesn't work - twist throttle and ebrake lever in the same hand or something else, like setup.
i tried enabling variable regen

 

[amberwolf]

Keep in mind that the CA's regen controls only work for controllers that support using the 0.0 to 0.8v range of the throttle input to control braking, and *not* using the controller's ebrake input (no switch / etc connected to that). The Grinfineons from now back to several years ago should all support this, and all the *Runners as well (as long as it is setup and enabled in the *Runner; the Grinfineons have no setup so it's always enabled). Really old Grinfineons don't have variable regen.

If you have a different controller, you would need to see if it supports using the throttle input this way. If it does not, but has a separate variable regen input, you can use a relay setup controlled by the switch you use to engage the CA's regen mode to "move" the CA's throttle output to the controller's regen input during this event, and back to the controller's throttle input when braking is ended. Then setup the controller's regen input range from 0.0 to 0.8v (which is the max the CA can output for variable regen control).

All the CA has to tell the controller to do anything is the throttle output to the controller's throttle input. So all it can do for regen control is to send a throttle signal that the controller is designed to accept as a regen braking input range vs a throttle acceleration range.

Anything else the controller requires for activating and controlling it's regen braking requires different hardware setup to the controller to tell it what to do.

 

[erikstunes]

I have the baserunner that came with my gmac kit last year. I think that's variable regen capable. It behaves as if it is when controlling speed down hill with speed limit. Occasionally the ebraking cuts out on a step hill, not sure what causes that, could be the battery

 

[amberwolf]

Occasionally the ebraking cuts out on a step hill, not sure what causes that, could be the battery

If the battery's BMS has a way to shut off it's connection from the controller completely (due to overcharge or overcurrent) then the regen voltage would spike from the motor and the controller might stop regenning to prevent damage from that, but then the system would turn off completley because there would be no battery power and no regen power and the display would blank until you reset the battery.

Otherwise it is probably a thermal limit (or some other limit) in the controller being exceeded; you'd have to see if this is logged anywhere to find out which one it is, or check the setup parameters in the PR suite if it can read them all (problems have been reported where it doesn't).

.

I have the baserunner that came with my gmac kit last year. I think that's variable regen capable. It behaves as if it is when controlling speed down hill with speed limit.

Is the speed limit that does this in the CA, or in the BR? If it's in the BR it might still not be setup to respond to the CA's brake control via throttle input. If it's in the CA, then that means the CA is already able to control the BR's braking this way, and it should be able to be directly controlled by you, too.

Does it work using the brake switch (any button will work, it does't have to be on a brake lever--even just manually touchign the ebrake wires together from the CA would work for a test) and throttle method?

 

[erikstunes]

I thought of temperature being the problem, but I watched the temperature as I went down the steep Hill and it didn't seem to be that, also the temperature went up quite a bit higher on the climb and it didn't stop running. It does work with the brake lever, and in fact if it cuts out I can use the brake lever switch and it works right away. I've also use the friction break on the front which probably prevents it cutting out. Last year i would stop and recycle the CA, don't know if just stopping would work as well.have to check again to see how it works

No, using the brake lever switch and the throttle doesn't work once the throttle gets up to this point where it starts to give power it gives power but there's no modulation of breaking

I hope with the updated firmware the back pedal will work, because it wouldn't be convenient for me to use the throttle really. I have ordered a variable potentiometer from grin and that might work although I want to use it for speed limit. I'm looking for a Windows computer to use

 

[erikstunes]

Corrections

The switch does not work after the regen braking cuts out.
Cycling off on the ca doesn't make any difference, neither does stopping. It seems to be after a while everything works again, power and e-braking
I watched the amps and today it seems to cut out at 7 or 8 but, the other day it was at 10. I don't know if i can access max amps on the ca
Same with temperature

 

[offGridDownUnder]

I'm looking for a Windows computer to use

I have problems using the Grin CA software on Linux and Mac. I maintain one Windows machine for that now, but intend to spend more time on getting these working.

This is involved, but if you can run an image in VirtualBox, you may be able to use the 'old' testing Windows images Microsoft used to provide. They no longer host them, but they are available from archive.org:
modern.IE Virtual Machines (2023-01-07 Snapshot) : Microsoft : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Risky to connect them to the Internet, but VirtualBox can be set not to do that. You must also configure the connection for the USB pass-through.

This would only be for people who are knowledgeable about using VirtualBox (or VMware, or Hyper-V or Parallels on Mac etc.).

I do intend to spend time with the Mac & Linux versions to try to get them to work reliably. I have no affiliation with Grin, by the way.

 

[erikstunes]

THanks offgrid, I've taken your hint and bought a win10 desktop for this. Haven't succeeded yet installing CA setup though

 

[zinaambiorix32]

I have problems using the Grin CA software on Linux and Mac. I maintain one Windows machine for that now, but intend to spend more time on getting these working.

This is involved, but if you can run an image in VirtualBox, you may be able to use the 'old' testing Windows images Microsoft used to provide. They no longer host them, but they are available from archive.org:
modern.IE Virtual Machines (2023-01-07 Snapshot) : Microsoft : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Risky to connect them to the Internet, but VirtualBox can be set not to do that. You must also configure the connection for the USB pass-through.

This would only be for people who are knowledgeable about using VirtualBox (or VMware, or Hyper-V or Parallels on Mac etc.).

I do intend to spend time with the Mac & Linux versions to try to get them to work reliably. I have no affiliation with Grin, by the way.

What do you mean by USB pass-through?

 

[offGridDownUnder]

Passing the USB connection through the physical computer running Linux to the Virtual machine running Windows if you are dong that.