Carver Bicycle Design/Prototype ?

S

ScooterMan101

1 MW
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
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Location
SF Bay Area California
Who is Working on a Bicycle Version of the Carver. First made over 20 years ago as a motorcycle with a car engine , now being made in Europe
as a Scooter. We need a Bicycle Version of this , Larger than a regular or recumbent bicycle , a Very Large Road only Bicycle . The size of a full size motorcycle but with Down Hill Bicycle Suspension and Heavy duty trike parts . ( a Leaning Delta Trike ) . Upright seating not laid back like the
low slung tadpole trikes .
 
ScooterMan101 said:
We need a Bicycle Version of this , Larger than a regular or recumbent bicycle , a Very Large Road only Bicycle .
Click to expand...

Why? Motorcycles are motorcycles, even if they're not fast. We already have those.

You can pretend a motorcycle or small goofy car is a bicycle, but pretending doesn't make it so.
 
Chalo said:
Why? Motorcycles are motorcycles, even if they're not fast. We already have those.

You can pretend a motorcycle or small goofy car is a bicycle, but pretending doesn't make it so.
Click to expand...
For Several Reasons Chalo

1) For longer trips and for greater cargo carrying capacity. For longer trips from where I live to
where I need/want to go. So to park/mot use the car and
go the distance and carry cargo I want to . I need a much larger vehicle than a regular cargo bike .
2) With such a design we can carry a larger battery pack like minimum 2 kw hours to 6 or even 7 kw hour pack.
3) With a carver design we can put a 100 watt flexible panel across the back , and a 150 flexible panel on the roof for trickle charging all the time, when in use and while it is parked .
4) Motorcycles and cars need to be registered and insured ( The lowest price I was quoted by my car insurance
for insuring a Tesla starts at $ 2,400 a year , for the cheapest Tesla , for insurance here in California, and I have
a perfect driving record ! ) My neighbor was quoted the same for his Hyandai car and he has a perfect driving record . Motorcycles are just a little cheaper but not by much .
Insurance is going up for every Car Driver here in California by 20%-25% when our policies
are renewed , mine is increasing by 25 % very soon !
5) In order to not drive the car !!!
6) To be able to go long distances and carry more cargo than a cargo bike in Comfort just like a car , in other words
wind and rain protection .
There are other reasons as well such as for people like me who have many bike parts already owned so the cost will be lower .
And other good reasons as well .
 
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2006 Carver One Review - Proof We Should Just Let The Dutch Build All The Cars
 
ScooterMan101 said:
Motorcycles and cars need to be registered and insured ( The lowest price I was quoted by my car insurance
for insuring a Tesla starts at $ 2,400 a year , for the cheapest Tesla , for insurance here in California, and I have
a perfect driving record ! ) Insurance is going up for every Car Driver here in California by 20%-25% when our policies
are renewed , mine by 25 % very soon !
Click to expand...

Right. But that's the deal. You can't "transgender" your car or motorcycle by declaring it to be a bicycle, even if that would save you money and inconvenience. And what you're talking about wouldn't qualify as a bicycle anywhere, not even close. What you're talking about is equivalent to running a golf cart or ATV on the street and claiming it's a bicycle. Yeah... but no, it's not.
 
Here in California and many other states as well you can make any size bicycle and operate it on the roads.
This design is for just the roads , not dirt or mountain biking .
I have seen a bicycle as big as a small car here in the area , it has 4 wheels .
In California bicycles are legally allowed to use the entire lane .

Now if you will make me a motorcycle or scooter version and pay for my insurance I would accept.
In the mean time I must find a way to accomplish most of what I do now in a car by means of bike.

In other words , I must find a way to make a wind and rain proof large cargo trike that tilts .

With the cost of Gas/Petro and Insurance going up at such high rates many people are going to
be needing the same large cargo bike that can be ridden in comfort . Remember about wind and rain and
cold mornings and evenings .

Yes it Can be Legally be ridden every where in California except for the Freeways and Major Highways.
a good example is it can be Legally be ridden from the Oregon Border down Hwy 1 to Southern Cal , just like
many bicycles do every year.
 
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ScooterMan101 said:
Here in California and many other states as well you can make any size bicycle and operate it on the roads.
Click to expand...

At no more than 750W of motor assist. If you call your Sherman tank an e-bike, you kind of remove all doubt about the 750W part.

I'll reiterate: If your desired contraption conforms to the definition of a motorcycle, that's what it is. If it conforms to the definition of a LSV, then that's what it is. Car, light truck, etc. But unless it conforms to the definition of a bicycle, it's not a bicycle.

In Texas, a three wheeler can be a bicycle but a four wheeler can't. We used to have no pedal assisted power limit, but we had a 100 lbs weight limit. The definitions have changed to bring them in line with the California class 1/2/3 system, which I think is a step backwards.
 
ScooterMan101 said:
1) For longer trips and for greater cargo carrying capacity. For longer trips from where I live to
where I need/want to go. So to park/mot use the car and
go the distance and carry cargo I want to . I need a much larger vehicle than a regular cargo bike .
2) With such a design we can carry a larger battery pack like minimum 2 kw hours to 6 or even 7 kw hour pack.
Click to expand...
Just use a decent bike trailer behind an Ebike. ,!
or a commercial cargo Ebike ( how much cargo do you need to carry ?)
Why do you need a “tilting” 3 wheel design when you already have that feature on a 2 wheel bicycle ?
The carver need to tilt because of the higher speeds it is designed for.
0067BC3E-A0D7-49D1-870E-D41DA31A56DF.jpeg
….And.. you do realise why EV insurance is becoming so high, ?.…..
it is partly due to the percieved high fire risk, which is becoming associated with anything using lithium batteries,
so you can expect it to reflect on your property insurance if you admit to using or charging them on your property.
 
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Chalo, Many people want such a bike , it is really a more comfortable velomobile , just with two wheels and tilting .
It will happen no matter how much negativity you have about it .

Hillhater, You are missing the whole point about wind and rain protection. this in a bike format will be another
Velomobile, only more comfortable and more cargo room . and the fun of tilting .
I already do the bike and trailer setup that you show in the picture, without the motor on the trailer.
I am talking Velomobile here. A carver type of cycle is a higher cargo carrying and better version of a velomobile.
Also
I have been to Sydney , Met Mr. Ben Lexcen back in the 80's in person on a hilly area of Sydney,
To this day I still call polycarbonate ... Lexan .
Come to California and
ride some of the many Canyon Roads here and you will then see how much fun a tilting vehicle is. Ride here in the cold Mornings and or evenings and you will see how much better an enclosed vehicle is .
 
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PaPaSteve said:
How about this :

Electrom Light Electric Vehicle – Taking the e-bike further

www.electrom.ca www.electrom.ca
Click to expand...
I have seen it some 4 + years ago, even contacted him, However it is not fully enclosed , or a trike. I want a trike for many reasons . And living here in the SF Bay Area , being in an enclosed vehicle increases the comfort level by leaps and bounds . I already built something like the electrom myself using a long wheelbase simi recumbent and a small sport motorcycle windscreen , I am very cold most of the time I use it , so I use it a fraction of the time that I would use a bike version of the Carver. When the weather will warm up it will be fine during the few hottest hours of the day , I need a velomobile for the other 7- 8 months , and in the mornings and evenings most all the year .
 
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ScooterMan101 said:
Chalo, Many people want such a bike , it is really a more comfortable velomobile , just with two wheels and tilting .
It will happen no matter how much negativity you have about it .
Click to expand...

It's a good idea that would work better for most people to do the job they use a multi thousand pound pollution box for. Why a trike, I don't know, but those things seem to have their adherents (especially among folks who haven't tried both two and three wheeled vehicles for comparison).

My point is that it's not a bicycle, so it doesn't enjoy bicycle privileges. You can wish it were, you can claim it is, but it's not. It will need all those motor vehicle inconveniences like insurance, registration, licensing, and inspection to become legal, which negates much of its appeal.
 
I disagree with what you think, It will in fact be just a larger velomobile, with 3 wheels and more comfort seating. Velomobiles even electric ones don't need reg, licensing or inspection , and won't for a some time to come here in U.S.
It will enjoy bicycle privileges on the road, which is what the design is for .

I do plan on having a motorcycle version sometime in
the future when they become more available and less in price than the Carver. That one I will do the registration , insurance , and if it ever needs inspection in the future the CHP does that every day for a very low cost . motorcycle and moped insurance is much cheaper than car when you know where to get it . so enough negativity from
you Chalo , just quit now, it is time for this thread to be
for people who want to help design this 3 wheel velomobile.
 
I have seen , sat in , and seen the ELF rolling down the road. Too many problems with them, i think they had so many problems that they went out of business, Last one I saw listed for sale they were asking $ 5,000 , it is not worth
any where near that , I already looked into it a few years back.
Also
It is a tadpole/reverse trike they have their problems and not for my needs , A Tilting Delta is much better in many ways. I have done the research.
 
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Hillhater, I just did a google search, no enclosed tilting ( Tilting ) trikes in the bicycle world.
I did find tadpole ones , Tilting Delta is a better design .
The Carver Scooter that is sold in Europe, not the U.S. is over $ 12,000 , not possible for
me . I bicycle version that can use many off the shelf bike parts is the answer for me and many other people
 
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Chalo said:
My point is that it's not a bicycle, so it doesn't enjoy bicycle privileges. You can wish it were, you can claim it is, but it's not. It will need all those motor vehicle inconveniences like insurance, registration, licensing, and inspection to become legal, which negates much of its appeal.
Click to expand...
Your interpretation of a bicycle is irrelevant. Only the State's statutes are applicable if ridden on public roadways.

California Bicycle Definition

"A bicycle is a device upon which any person may ride, propelled exclusively by human power
through a belt, chain, or gears, and having one or more wheels. Persons riding bicycles are
subject to the provisions of this code specified in Sections 21200 and 21200.5"

There is no mention of weigh limits or specific configurations (unless you wish to nitpic about "ride" or "riding upon"). It just needs "human power". I do recall several years back where a couple of foolish kids gutted a small compact car (literally, it was just a shell w/wheels)... and proceeded to install pedals. They were stopped by LEO and cited ONLY for impeding traffic.
 
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Velotilt . . .see link
This guy has been working on one for several years.
He actually took over from the original designer which came from Europe.

The thing is, for a self built machine you can use any material (recycled or not) and thought process because it's your life on the line.

You might want to study . . . One of the members here The Toecutter has made a low cost enclosed pedal electric trike with the body made from corrugated plastic.
Yes, it is a tadpole, it's the process you might find relevant.

When building for resale a higher standard is employed.
The design needs to meet engineering conventions, use new materials, have manufacture's liability insurance, etc..
A used ELF may not be your "cup of tea" but it was a decent product and performed as the designer intended.

Having build a few human powered leaning trikes, my experience : the extra weight and complexity don't provide enough benefit to warrant the effort.

Your Results May Vary
 
Papa said:
Your interpretation of a bicycle is irrelevant. Only the State's statutes are applicable if ridden on public roadways.

California Bicycle Definition

"A bicycle is a device upon which any person may ride, propelled exclusively by human power
through a belt, chain, or gears, and having one or more wheels. Persons riding bicycles are
subject to the provisions of this code specified in Sections 21200 and 21200.5"

There is no mention of weigh limits or specific configurations (unless you wish to nitpic about "ride" or "riding upon"). It just needs "human power". I do recall several years back where a couple of foolish kids gutted a small compact car (literally, it was just a shell w/wheels)... and proceeded to install pedals. They were stopped by LEO and cited ONLY for impeding traffic.
Click to expand...
CA code goes on to specify that an electric bicycle is a "bicycle equipped with fully charged operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts.” So a legal version of what the OP is suggesting will land the operator back in impeding-traffic territory. What we're really looking at is an LSV, unless it's too fast to be one of those, or too slow to be as useful as an e-bike.

Maybe there's some angle to register such a thing as a moped, which would remove insurance requirements in CA and most other places.
 
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