CroBorg Super Commuter

Motor Controller

Cromotor users are split between 18 FET and 24 FET controllers with the 18 FET being a bit more common.

I'm leaning toward running the 24 FET fairly stock rather than modding an 18 FET. Either will fit in the 'Borg chassis. The 24 FET has more thermal mass and can handle the heat better.

With 18S Lipo the bus voltage is around 70V so 100A is 7KW. That is well within the Cromotor's capability.

Lyen 244110 Controller Selected
 
Brakes

The Greyborg frame is set up for disc brakes in the rear, and the forks in my kit are set up for dual disc in the front. The questions remain:

1) What disc size(s) to use?

2) What brand/model of disc calipers and levers to use?

3) How to handle the dual front disc? (Tee for hose, adequate fluid volume, etc).

4) do the brake adapters reduce brake strength/reliability at all? Is there any advantage to staying with the size disc the forks were designed for?

Some have mentioned or shown dual Gatorbrakes with 9" discs in the front. When I check the bicycle reviews I see mostly Shimano, Juicy, Avid, and Hope recommended. Not Gatorbrakes. But they are not stopping a 100 pound ebike!

With dual front disc, should I go with smaller discs? Should all three discs be the same size?

Any comments would be appreciated.
 
For the rear brakes, if you are using the adaptor that Hal/Accountant include, it is designed for use (ie will only work) with a 203mm disc. I have 203mm on my front and rear. I use Avid BB7 brakes (which are cable actuated), and have been really surprised at how close they rate against my shimano hydros. I found the cable length needed (if you are going to run the cable along the underside of the frame for the rear brake) is very long, so cable brakes were easy to make the cable long - I actually needed a tandem bike brake cable as it needed to be so long - don't know how others found the rear cable issue.

Cheers, Phil.
 
The gatorbrakes are actually motorcycle size, The pads are larger than most others. What there offering in the 8 piston is 2 sets of pads in each caliper. Also there may be a left and right. They should last awhile coming down Pikes Peak!
 
Thanks for that info. 203mm is a good size then for the rear since the bracketing is set for that, and perhaps for all 3 discs just to make them the same. No real motivation for 9" discs especially with dual front discs.

Penciled in choice of 8" / 203mm for all 3 discs

Tally one vote for Avid BB7 cable disc brakes with tandem length cable for rear

I could use cable or hydro for rear, but I suspect that hydro is required for dual fronts. I kind of like the idea of having one system be different from the other. Cable brakes can't leak. Does it make sense to use hydro on the front and cable on the rear? The feel is different, but rear brakes aren't the same as fronts anyway. My current ebike has Hayes Hydro 203mm on the front and Shimano VBrake on the rear, so they don't feel the same.

Another posting slipped in there. Thanks for the Gatorbrakes info. I just might do Pike's Peak sometime, so that is a good point. Luke burned up Gatorbrakes but I don't know if he liked them or not, he burns up many things. Do they have good modulation?

Tally one vote for 8 piston Gator brakes on the front
 
More info on Gatorbrakes:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24827 Hal testing Gatorbrakes

Shucks, even I posted in that thread. That was a while ago.

Hal recommends the 6 or 8 piston Gatorbrakes

Wondering what the Stealth Bomber and Fighter use?

Stealth Uses 6 piston Gatorbrakes according to one posting (edit - apparently 8 piston are an option)

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=34313

MadRhino suggests Hope Tech V2 with floating vented disc for the front

Interesting note - Magura has hydraulic switches - this could be useful for regen or even brake lights...

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=33869 how long do pads last
 
Alan B said:
Motor Controller

Cromotor users are split between 18 FET and 24 FET controllers with the 18 FET being a bit more common.

I'm leaning toward running the 24 FET fairly stock rather than modding an 18 FET. Either will fit in the 'Borg chassis. The 24 FET has more thermal mass and can handle the heat better.

With 18S Lipo the bus voltage is around 70V so 100A is 7KW. That is well within the Cromotor's capability.

Lyen 244110 Controller Selected
Click to expand...

Update - Lyen 244110 Controller Ordered - should have in a couple of weeks or so. About the same time as the frame.


Note - it is less than 1.5 months to the Mega Monster Enduro Race. Lyen entered last year, and this year a number of ES folks might be there:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=35124 Rollcall for the upcoming 2012 Race

http://megamonster.lowkeyhillclimbs.com/2012/ The 2012 Race website

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25266 Lyen's 2011 Race Experience thread

But will the 'Borg be ready in time?
 
If six piston Gatorbrakes are good enough for Stealth Bomber are they good enough for Greyborg? Or do we need eight??[/quote]

They are good enought, but Stealth is also offering 8 pistons upgrade.

Only 8 piston calipers can be bought for double caliper version.

6 piston caliper for right side disc do not exsist.


You can never have too much stopping power, and modulation is much better with 2 discs.
 
Hey Alan,

I am running 6 piston Gators with 203mm rotors on my 'Borg..

6645906401_d05ba8b09f_z.jpg


..one finger on each brake lever hauls it down from 40+ MPH quickly and predictably, with good modulation and disregardable fade. Bear in mind - this is with a 20S 1P LiPO pack and my spindly 145 pound self.

Dual 8 pots out front would be unfknblvable!
 
Accountant said:
Alan B said:
If six piston Gatorbrakes are good enough for Stealth Bomber are they good enough for Greyborg? Or do we need eight??
Click to expand...

They are good enought, but Stealth is also offering 8 pistons upgrade.

Only 8 piston calipers can be bought for double caliper version.

6 piston caliper for right side disc do not exsist.


You can never have too much stopping power, and modulation is much better with 2 discs.
Click to expand...

OK, Good to know.

Penciling in 8 caliper 203mm Gatorbrakes for the front and Six for the rear.

Not sure where to get those. Not easy to find a website that sells them.

Having a mix of sizes may not be great. Might be better to use same both front and rear?
 
Cost and shipping? Please send in PM, thanks.

It would be good if the information was all in one place on what is available. I find fragments here and there, and the build parts list on page 4 has errors that should be fixed. I would suggest keeping a full list somewhere, perhaps on page 1 of the for sale thread, and update it as it changes.
 
Alan B said:
Stevil,

Those white covers are really something. What are you planning to do for a color scheme?
Click to expand...


Material used is excelent for easy spraypainting.

Havent you noticed my Green canopies, and black ones ?

Web page and web shop will be on soon.
 
Color Scheme

I have looked at all the threads and sites I can find on the Greyborg and seen green, black and white color canopies. I have wondered about doing something a bit different, perhaps with more than one color. But I'm not decided on any plan. Looking for suggestions to consider.

The rims I'm probably going to get are black. Spokes can be black or bare. Frame tubes are black. Forks are a tan color if I remember right. Motor is black.

Any clever ideas out there?
 
Chose a theme colour to complement the black, and make a design of that coulour and black for the canopy.
For one of my bikes that is black, I chose red. Then, selecting red accessories and components, adding some striping, all that makes a neat finished look.
 
queuing from the Borg theme..
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Borg_drone
..I considered incorporating some of the exo-plating designs, with a few embedded RGB LEDs (to indicate SOC) into the bodywork.

I admit it, I am a SciFi geek :oops:

Been holding off since I may need to cut a few holes for charge and balance headers. In the mean time, I have been running without the upper right canopy for easy access to swap packs and monitor the controller temperature -which gets pretty warm and likes some cool air flowing over it. The open, visceral appearance of the controller, batteries and wiring in there has gotten more than a few, "That looks like the terminator after he got bashed-up.." remarks from folks I encounter, and yes, it kinda' does!

The monochromatic, white on black has grown on me. It reminds me of a stormtrooper.
 
Thanks for the comments. I'll have to work more on color scheme.

Controller hasn't arrived but probably will in a day or so. Lyen is not far from me and it was shipped. He even did a video of the testing. Amazing.

The frame is about a week out. Theoretically, tracking is not very accurate.

Ordered some Michelin Gazelles in 2.5-17, tubes and rim tape. Also a garage door opener to make it easier to get the ebikes in and out. Also got a new Makita air compressor that is amazingly quiet. Good for the shop and the occasional bike tire needing some air.

Was researching freewheels again. Seems that the White Industries is the best, but noisy - clicks louder and higher frequency. Shimano generally rates second best, is much cheaper, and can be silent. The White Industries never break but Shimano's occasionally do. So what do folks use on their singlespeed hubmotors? Wonder what's on the Stealth bikes?

Also looking for comments and recommendations on headsets, stems and handlebars.
 
On the Torque Arms I'm working on a plan with a local machinist, but we won't start in earnest until the frame is in hand.

Helmet Upgrade - ordered AVG Blade in blue/white. I think this bike is going to be black and blue. I have some nice Krylon Fusion in Safety/Patriotic Blue that looks nice. Maybe that's a bit dark though.

So any comments on freewheels, headsets, stems or handlebars? Oatnet suggested an adjustable stem. Is it okay to run an adjustable stem all the t ime, or is this just to get started and then change to a fixed one?

I also saw a Sheldon Brown article suggesting a clamp collar instead of spacers at the top of the headset, and then keep the steerer tube full length and get some extra handlebar height that way. Can always cut it down later when things are better understood.

How difficult is headset bearing race installation? They mention special tools to keep it aligned. Should I have that done or turn some one-use tools from PVC pipe, or would that even work? I could use aluminum rod instead which should work?? Just need to turn a shoulder?? Make it long enough to go all the way through and then with both cups in place to guide the rod tap them in?? What have others been doing?

Thanks in advance for your comments.
 
Hi Alan, I am building a Warp with cromotor too. I found the shoulder on the axle on the freewheel side does not protrude past the freewheel threads, it sits level with them. I was going to use a Shimano freewheel that I already had, but the freewheel doesn't thread through, it has a collar, meaning a spacer on the axle would be needed and the frame dropout stretched further. I'm now using a Dicta FW that threads all the way through and lets me use no spacer on the freewheel side.

The disc brake side is a different story, to fit a disc rotor and clear the wiring, I've built a 10mm thick c shaped spacer, the wiring now just barely clears the disc rotor and can jt ex around the dropout. There was no getting past stretching the frame out to fit the spacer. If you're not fitting a rear disc and using regen for a brake, I'd go with the Shimano FW for near silent running and a spacer.
 
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