LockH
1 PW
Hehe.... from the OP in this thread... "self-engineered project".... when "the world" of bike makers are "going electric". Suspect only that a "self-engineered project" is a "pipe dream" for the vast/most. :wink:
Cyclone 4kW mid-drive self-engineered project
- Thread starter tubeglower
- Start date
tubeglower
10 mW
Hillhater said:
31kg
SwampDonkey
100 W
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2018
- Messages
- 227
Tommm said:
Well yeah, but where are they?
SwampDonkey said:
http://www.cyclone-tw.com/3chkit.html
First two are the kits with BB-s, they have even bigger ones. But I don't know if they give you mounting brackets or if the 3kw mounting bracket is any good with it.
Hillhater
100 TW
How much battery is in that ?tubeglower said:
tubeglower
10 mW
Hillhater said:
a pack made out 3 of these: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/multistar-high-capacity-6s-10000mah-multi-rotor-lipo-pack.html
it is 3 x 6S = 18S Lipo, 10000mAh. Need to check how much range it gives with "moderate" use (PAS) in offroad (actual MTB use), which it is the main expected use. Under "moto" mood I don't expect too much range, maybe 15km?
Great welding skills. I wish I could do that nice.
Where did you get those temp gauges? Those look really nice.
How are you planning to finish the aluminum?
Where did you get those temp gauges? Those look really nice.
How are you planning to finish the aluminum?
DingusMcGee
10 kW
Tubeglower,
Does the 31 kg include the weight of the battery pack you say you will use?
Does the 31 kg include the weight of the battery pack you say you will use?
tubeglower
10 mW
fechter said:
Temp gauges are from aliexpress... Plenty of them there nearly for free.
So far I don't plan any painting, first I want to test and be sure I don't need any new hole or modification. Later I might paint it with some nice Martini Racing theme.
tubeglower
10 mW
DingusMcGee said:
yep! battery pack included in the weight.
tubeglower
10 mW
this thing is crazy, I managed to reach 70 km/h in my parking entrance (it is a condominium parking corridor), and I doubt that is the max speed yet... 
Hillhater
100 TW
It wont help with your estimates, but this may give you some encouragement..tubeglower said:
I run a 48v, 12s pack (3x4s) of the 16Ah Multistars. On a 750w TSDZ2 drive.
In the past week or two i have ridden a total of 5 + hrs of rough hilly forrest trails without recharging until yesterday. (46.5v on the pack)
Even then it only took 6Ah of charge to bring the pack back up to 49.5 v.
(And 750W mid drive climbs trails i find difficult walk up)
tubeglower
10 mW
Hillhater said:It wont help with your estimates, but this may give you some encouragement..tubeglower said:
I run a 48v, 12s pack (3x4s) of the 16Ah Multistars. On a 750w TSDZ2 drive.
In the past week or two i have ridden a total of 5 + hrs of rough hilly forrest trails without recharging until yesterday. (46.5v on the pack)
Even then it only took 6Ah of charge to bring the pack back up to 49.5 v.
(And 750W mid drive climbs trails i find difficult walk up)
Nice tip, thanks!! Any idea how much distance you might have covered? I am wishing to bring this rig to the trails and check myself. Unfortunately my dzus are too short to close the battery box. I need to wait for longer ones (already shipped from the supplier)... I don't want to fill in the box with mud and debris from offload riding
DingusMcGee
10 kW
Tubeglower,
70 km for top speed is slightly lower than what I would expect with the 4kw motor and a low profile person as I have gotten 42 mph on an "S" works hardtail Specialized with the 3kw motor.
I have an early model Specialized Big Hit set up as an edirtbike. The unmodified frame bike setup weights in at 35kg with batteries (3 -6S 12,000mAhr Multicraft). Some items adding weight to my setup over yours may be a 2.75" front & 3" rear knobby tire with heavy tubes, 12 oz of Green Slime in each tube, heavy duty chains, steel sprockets and double stanchion fork with steel direct mount tiller extension. Obviously the KTM seat used on mine adds more than a standard bike seat.
From pictures of your frame it looks like the dominate distant lower bb hinge pin for the rear suspension will result in greater chain tightening upon rear compression than the double 4-bar Hourst linkage used on Specialized rear suspension. As I am running a dedicated one speed, chain slack is more of a problem than with a long derailleur. Dereailleurs get torn off on really difficult, tight and bushy terrain. The bike at low amps 30, can continuously climb a 67% grade which is natural talus angle.
And I must say you've got an interesting modification. Aside from making an enclosed battery back, did this conversion to a shell-box reduce frame weight much?
The wheelbase on mine is 45.5". And your wheelbase dimension?
So far no problems with my simple battery pack from crashes. You do get maximum traction while riding on the rear tire only.
70 km for top speed is slightly lower than what I would expect with the 4kw motor and a low profile person as I have gotten 42 mph on an "S" works hardtail Specialized with the 3kw motor.
I have an early model Specialized Big Hit set up as an edirtbike. The unmodified frame bike setup weights in at 35kg with batteries (3 -6S 12,000mAhr Multicraft). Some items adding weight to my setup over yours may be a 2.75" front & 3" rear knobby tire with heavy tubes, 12 oz of Green Slime in each tube, heavy duty chains, steel sprockets and double stanchion fork with steel direct mount tiller extension. Obviously the KTM seat used on mine adds more than a standard bike seat.
From pictures of your frame it looks like the dominate distant lower bb hinge pin for the rear suspension will result in greater chain tightening upon rear compression than the double 4-bar Hourst linkage used on Specialized rear suspension. As I am running a dedicated one speed, chain slack is more of a problem than with a long derailleur. Dereailleurs get torn off on really difficult, tight and bushy terrain. The bike at low amps 30, can continuously climb a 67% grade which is natural talus angle.
And I must say you've got an interesting modification. Aside from making an enclosed battery back, did this conversion to a shell-box reduce frame weight much?
The wheelbase on mine is 45.5". And your wheelbase dimension?
So far no problems with my simple battery pack from crashes. You do get maximum traction while riding on the rear tire only.
tubeglower said:this thing is crazy, I managed to reach 70 km/h in my parking entrance (it is a condominium parking corridor), and I doubt that is the max speed yet...
If the battery and chain can handle it, you should be good for 90kmh+ on the 4kw motor. Might need a little extra solder on the shunt to take it to 70A-ish amps for around 5kw.
markz
100 TW
You'd get a comment from the fuzz like - Thats unroadworthy and you are stunting, puff out your chest more fuzzies!
tubeglower
10 mW
DingusMcGee said:
Interesting, we do share the basic configuration. What typical range do you get with your batteries? When I tested in moto mode my rig I was not certainly pushing the limits, the place and the lack of rear brake at that moment did not advise to do so. I might try again this week, since at least the bike is fully assembled now. But I agree that it should have more oomph...
The shell box mod I don’t think it reduces weight in comparisson to the original frame, but it allows for a better battery space and a good structural worthiness.
This frame has ended up being an L size, with 610 mm of horizontal tube lenght and a wheelbase of 1215mm (47.8”) with 68deg steering angle and 74deg seat tube. I didn’t want to go for a dual crown fork to don’t loose very much manoubring in the very twisted singletracks typical where I pedal. So I am quite happy with that, and my main concern is if the air shock will be suitable for my intended use. It is a bit too soft, even reaching the pressure limits, but I do need to play with the other setting possibilities that the caneecreek offers (low and high speed compression and rebound).
Suspenssion in this frame is kind of weird, at a glance, it looks like a monopivot, but it is a paralelogram with very short arms, it feels progressive, so that is the main reason I hope to survive with the airshock. It does have a lot of antisquat, and it shows up when the motor accelerates from low speed, the suspenssion lift your ass, recovering most of the compressed travel due to the sag.
DingusMcGee
10 kW
Tubeglower,
Range: With the stated batts, 3x 6s 12 aHr. difficult sidehill terrain uses about 1aHr/ mile. On new LiPo's I have gotten about 90% of stated capacity when going to a low of 3v per cell. This riding area has no shelfed-in trails, some zones do get pounded flatish.
For easier trail I figure about 50 wHrs/mi. Maybe 16 miles?
The eBay purchased bike came with the dual crown Roc Shox Boxxer forks. I have not had any trouble on this terrain with them for the limit of steering angle they allow, but there are no hairpin switchbacks here. These trails are not sought by the pedal biking bunch -- maybe loose terrain, many rocks and hills climbs too steep? I have ordered the Fox 40 2019 Grip2 dual crown shoxs for the replacement fork as I bottom out the Boxxers sometimes.
A short wheelbase measurement (45.5") may be a little overated? There is a 300cc KTM rider here that makes all the turns and has a 53" wheelbase. He says for hairpin uphill switchbacks he wheelies up adding body English and turns the machine something a little less than 180 degrees. He adds that downhill switchbacks are quite difficult on this machine. This switchback turning skill is not yet in my quiver. The dual crown forks do not seem to hinder him.
Range: With the stated batts, 3x 6s 12 aHr. difficult sidehill terrain uses about 1aHr/ mile. On new LiPo's I have gotten about 90% of stated capacity when going to a low of 3v per cell. This riding area has no shelfed-in trails, some zones do get pounded flatish.
For easier trail I figure about 50 wHrs/mi. Maybe 16 miles?
The eBay purchased bike came with the dual crown Roc Shox Boxxer forks. I have not had any trouble on this terrain with them for the limit of steering angle they allow, but there are no hairpin switchbacks here. These trails are not sought by the pedal biking bunch -- maybe loose terrain, many rocks and hills climbs too steep? I have ordered the Fox 40 2019 Grip2 dual crown shoxs for the replacement fork as I bottom out the Boxxers sometimes.
A short wheelbase measurement (45.5") may be a little overated? There is a 300cc KTM rider here that makes all the turns and has a 53" wheelbase. He says for hairpin uphill switchbacks he wheelies up adding body English and turns the machine something a little less than 180 degrees. He adds that downhill switchbacks are quite difficult on this machine. This switchback turning skill is not yet in my quiver. The dual crown forks do not seem to hinder him.
tubeglower
10 mW
Tommm said:
sure...
Well, after some days off. I must say I am still working on this project. The bike runs like a blast, I managed to try it on trails and I have to find a good set of parameters that work well for my intended use (I want to ride real mtb conditions, same of places I ride with my no e-mtb). One of the days I managed to pedal along the extra support of the motor, but I lacked a bit of power in the tougher areas of the ride, but it was quite a good matching of my wish. Today I rode it again in the morning with a bit more aggressive parameters. Now it was a bit too much :lol: :lol: So I will try again later with something in between and publish and comment here.
My Dzus arrived, so also today I managed to close a bit better the battery box (no more tape there
). I am having some problems with the tires, because where I am right now the terrain is too aggressive for those Surly soft carcass tires (too many thorns and cutting edge stones). I hope to go better now with fully tubeless and liquid latex on them, and much better where I do normally ride, since it is a bit softer ground. Otherwise I might consider going to 2.7 Maxxis Minion with a 60/70 tpi carcass, heavier but much more reliable.I also received a new PAS sensor with more magnets, will try that when I assemble it.
Some pictures of the bike fully functional now.
Attachments
tubeglower
10 mW
an extra picture in its natural environment 
icherouveim
1 kW
tubeglower said:an extra picture in its natural environment
Nice build! Are you going to paint it also when you finish with the settings and tyres?
tubeglower
10 mW
icherouveim said:tubeglower said:an extra picture in its natural environment
Nice build! Are you going to paint it also when you finish with the settings and tyres?
I will...
tubeglower
10 mW
In my second ride today, I managed a better set of parameters in the controller. I also lost a front brake pad, my fault, probably I did not properly check the pin when I assemble them.
First ride parameters were too much for what I intend, I was not able to cope with the pedal speed in flat tarmac, more or less over 55 km/h. Way too fast. Also the climbs where too easy with not o very little effort, even in the steepest ones.
For the ones interested on them, those were the ones used:
View attachment 3
Then, during the afternoon, I managed to escape again from the family for the same short ride. I used something smoother and less powerful, but still I want to decrease the power a bit. I managed to pedal along (but very fast cadence, maybe 110 rpm) in the flat tarmac section, going just over 50 km/h with a final relation 32/11. So I start to find some of the interesting setting points. The climbs where powerful but funny, I was feeling how I was bringing part of the watts there. It is crazy funny to do some of the climbs at 18/20 km/h and over 160 bpm (Heart rate), so very good training I must say...
All the settings are used in the low speed position (from the 3 speed selector supplied by Cyclone). Then, once I found the right settings, I would still have two extra boost steps to choose.
First ride parameters were too much for what I intend, I was not able to cope with the pedal speed in flat tarmac, more or less over 55 km/h. Way too fast. Also the climbs where too easy with not o very little effort, even in the steepest ones.
For the ones interested on them, those were the ones used:
View attachment 3
Then, during the afternoon, I managed to escape again from the family for the same short ride. I used something smoother and less powerful, but still I want to decrease the power a bit. I managed to pedal along (but very fast cadence, maybe 110 rpm) in the flat tarmac section, going just over 50 km/h with a final relation 32/11. So I start to find some of the interesting setting points. The climbs where powerful but funny, I was feeling how I was bringing part of the watts there. It is crazy funny to do some of the climbs at 18/20 km/h and over 160 bpm (Heart rate), so very good training I must say...
All the settings are used in the low speed position (from the 3 speed selector supplied by Cyclone). Then, once I found the right settings, I would still have two extra boost steps to choose.
