DIY custom frames, home carbon-fiber method simplified

John in CR said:
Constrained only by choice, and here in Costa Rica good stuff is hard to find and you don't know what's in the interior layers.

Talk to Fraser at Cabo Rico Yachts. They grow their own woods or source only top quality, and I believe they still build far from the salt in San Jose:
http://www.caborico.com/index.html

Tell him Lock from Toronto says hi

Lock
 
Fun. I'd forgotten about this thread. Re the talk about vacuum bagging or not, and using cores where ya really don't want to soak `em as part of the layup, I can tell ya that some mfgrs "cheat" the process. They use "prepreg"... Pre-impregnated cloths (CF, kevlar, glass etc) where the factory supplies the cloth already wetted out (to extremely consistent standards.)

Tricky stuff to work with though. Best kept refridgerated until use... short shelf life... needs to be heated eg autoclave to fire the stuff off. If ya can get friendly w/a boat builder that uses the stuff, might be able to get a small piece for bike construction...
Example of some state-of-the-art carbon prepreg here:
http://www.zyvexpro.com/docs/Arovex_datasheet.pdf

tks
Lock
 
spinningmagnets said:
"Lock" just sent me a useful link with good info and pics about making a curvy shape with cardboard (don't laugh) and then fiber-glassing it inside and out with cloth/epoxy.

http://microship.com/resources/cardboard-core-composites.html

cardboard-wasu-1.jpg

to win a bet in college i built a gas powered model airplane entirely from cardboard and duct tape. it was unprotected except for a bit of epoxy coating in the engine area. it flew for about half an hour before enough fuel from the exhaust soaked in and it fell apart. anyways it flew long enough to satisfy the bet. wingspan was just under 60" as that was the width of the boxes i started with.

the idea came from a 60's or 70's model airplane magazine where someone built a control line flying wing from cardboard. my innovation was the duct tape.

i was very surprised how rigid the assembly actually turned out to be.

rick
 
Nice Rick!! I think your proof belongs in the Duct Tape anals of history for it's many wise and wonderous virtues. :mrgreen: Has anybody built anything actually structural out of duct tape? A bike? I almost don't doubt that it can be done.

Anyway, I was thinking about an enclosure inside/ around almost any frame that would act much like a tent. The kit would come with expandable poles and angle pieces that would have infinite number of possibilities. It could come with zipties that secured the structure, and nylon kite like material. Now is where it could be permantly molded with some sort of epoxy. I don't think it would be strong structurally but it would be a quick way to cover everything up. hmmmm, maybe better to do wood dowels , nylon, and then layup fiberglass or carbon fiber under or over depending on preference. Definately could be made relatively light.

Thoughts?
 
interesting comments here. There seems to be a deficit of actual experience and excess of "guys that read something on the internet about it."

I will settle one thing posted earlier, you can definitely get low resin content by squeegee, very low. In fact over the right technique and materials, with the right resins, you can get sub 25% resin content by weight, which makes for lighter, very brittle layups. But you cannot beat the resin removal you can get by pre-bagging fabric in between sheets of absorbent materials before application to the substrate, nor can you control the resin content they way you can by vac bagging. Been there, done both.

Pre-preg is hardly cheating, you may as well say using electricity is cheating too. Pre-preg is the fastest, most cost effective way to produce a consistent product in a high tolerance environment, saving time and money as well, they would be absolute fools to use anything else.

BTW, getting someone to just hand you a "small piece for bike construction" would not be likely. That guy could wad it into a ball and toss it in the trash and you would get as much use from it. Without a curing oven, a knowledge of the resin and fabric and how to use them and let's not forget- an application requiring said materials, it is a useless piece of limp fabric. The cost alone would keep me from giving away an inch of it and anyone that has used it ever would know better than to give up some to a person that could make no use of it.

Not to mention, most prepreg won't cure very hard, or correctly without proper ramping of heating and cooling temps and will never reach it's max potential without compaction by autoclave, heatshrink wrap, or some kind of clamp pressure. To treat pre-preg with any less fashion than the full treatment it was designed for is a waste and you should just be using regular carbon-or maybe duct tape.

YMMV depending on the resin. I do know about pre-preg, I use it! I build composite parts for to help pay the mortgage. Hell, I have a roll in my freezer and curing oven in my garage. I'm no materials engineer, but I'm glad to know that there is finally a thread that I can feel as comfortable in as some of you other guys do in the high-tech electro-babble threads.

Does anyone have a project they are actually working on?
 
Checked out the lovac on the cozy girls site, what the heck do they mean about the aluminum foil?

Do they actually mean aluminum foil found in grocery stores?

Katou
 
katou said:
Checked out the lovac on the cozy girls site, what the heck do they mean about the aluminum foil?
Katou

So you ever think about the sound of that to someone who fnds that post first? Not that they realize cozygrrls means women building the Cozy aircraft. This popped up for me on Google when I was searching unrelated to Endless Sphere.

They are using aluminum foil as a release film. Cheaper than nylon. If you use the thinnest stuff you find at the store it'll tend to tear as you're peeling it off, you've seen it refuse to let go of warm chocolate, right? I'm not sure aluminum foil is the best thing for that. Even better, plus cheaper still, is butcher paper. http://www.uline.com/BL_1956/Butcher-Paper If you must use the foil, hit up a restaurant supply site and get the HD, thicker stuff.

You can get masonite and warp a curved shape to lay up a panel that isn't flat, then reuse the masonite flat. You don't even need a release film, you use RELEASE wax (Not what you find in the auto parts store) The casual user can be leery of that because even a professional screws it up sometimes and the part still sticks to the tool. I'm rather partial to http://www.fiberglasssite.com/servlet/the-102/Partall-paste-%23-2/Detail

You want to use Nomex honeycomb? What kind of money you got? Planning to take a 2nd on the house for this project? How about instead you use something almost as good? http://www.uline.com/BL_1856/Honeycomb-Void-Fill You can't use this one to wrap around a baseball in a perfect (Endless) Sphere, but one skid of that stuff could last this entire community as long as we all should live, at least for home life, for about what it could cost for one little project of the high priced spread. Not something that aviation is ready to substitute, but the construction industry will use this instead to build your shower, etc. (What, you DIDN'T know there's cardboard in the construction of your hottub, etc.?) Let's not forget that the Nomex honeycomb also requires film sealer, also not cheap.

You can buy a vacuum pump at Harbor Freight for less than $100. http://www.harborfreight.com/25-cfm-vacuum-pump-98076.html Not getting to do this seriously at home yet so I haven't developed an opinion of it. I can't say I think the Cozygrrls explanation is very good, maybe you want a book. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/vacuumbagging_instr.html Aircraft Spruce will have the supplies you need, DON'T SKIP THE CATCHTANK!

Sure you can build cardboard cars, one of my projects in fact. I'd guess that instructor is dead now, but Fullerton College had a staple class with cardboard competitions, such as bridges, chariot races, different theme each year. You should think of how strong cardboard pallet runners are without being wrapped in composite fiber. http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-7911/Pallets/48-x-6-x-4-Honeycomb-Pallet-Runners Make your own with your largesse from that one skid you bought.

What having a core is about that you can make the same amount of fiberglas, carbon fiber, basalt, whatever you're using to be 7 times stronger by adding another material that itself is comparatively eggshell. When your panel is two sides split rather than together, it becomes harder to bend. An inch of EPS foam wouldn't last a second under pressure on it's own, but when it separates the sides of what would have been a flat panel they then have to bend at different rates, which they don't want to do. You can use acetone to melt out the EPS once you made it but that structure won't be nearly so strong. You make it 2, 3, 4 times as strong and more just by making it wider with a fragile core.

Hmmm, people have said things about me not having anything interesting enough to post, maybe such a project as this would hold your attention.
 
http://books.google.com/books?id=KtgDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA192&ots=SnLZpmio4l&dq=popular%20mechanics%20Ground%20Hugger&pg=PA192#v=onepage&q=popular%20mechanics%20Ground%20Hugger&f=false

The plans for the old steel frame version.
 
I remember reading as a teen about "Big Daddy" Ed Roth using a mix of plaster and 95% vermiculite pellets as a filler to make wild shapes. He could spread it over wood supports and chicken-wire, and when hardened he could shape it with a rough file very fast. Then, he could smooth it with a thin layer of Bondo (cheap plastic hardening putty designed for auto body repairs), and then primer/paint.

This guy is using an old running economy car and added expanding foam as the rough shaping medium. If you want to blend a boxy battery enclosure onto a frame, this provides fast cheap and surprisingly impressive result.

http://imgur.com/a/A3MOI

FoamBody.png
 
I've been you tube binge-ing on tutorials as I'm plucking up courage to get started on some composite projects. There's a company over here in the UK which does tutorials I've found very informative. Example below is skinning a rifle stock and shows nicely how to get the finish without vacuum bagging.

https://youtu.be/aqwhcfQZT8U
 
Another recommendation - check out Kilngsbnerg wing on youtube. He does some great videos and research into home build for his fixed wing glider projects. Particular interest to this group perhaps would be videos on home construction of a aero foam sandwhich ply tube construction. Here's the torque test - seriously impressive results ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9Xc0TLJqB0
 
@paradad or anyone else that's interested
how easy would it be to DIY a simple frame like below, redesigned to have a battery pack under the seat and a motor on the front wheel where the gearhub is?
low racer4.jpeg
 
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