DIY vs. Commercial: How/ Why(not)?

[markz]

Havent read the thread, just a few counter points to whats been said.


DIY kits - Sellers sell same motor as 250W and 500W and 750W so they can sell same motor to scared Britons (250W) and scared Americans (500W), Canadians 750W.

Not sure about OP self promo comment. OP seems genuine to me. I thought maybe your comment was that the OP had a commercial ebike rip-off skew to them, perhaps a MTBR forum mole. Maybe I am wrong, but I didnt find that. Just wants to get out and ride. Like I said I didnt read much, I thought too maybe he/she was scared and didnt want to go beyond 251W otherwise imprisonment. There are plenty of those type of people. Yet I bet they still speed in their tin cans and litter their cigs.

Commercial ebikes have their place, though they are expensive, have proprietary parts that are expensive.
DIY is cheaper, yet still as durable and reliable, and you can buy affordable parts immediately from anywhere in the world.

 

[donn]

Not sure about OP self promo comment. OP seems genuine to me.

Literally that was "the author", which could mean the OP but more likely referred to the previous post, an ad for TSDZ2 controller software. Advertising in a forum. If you probably know ads aren't appropriate, but you don't care and put one up anyway, does that reduce your credibility? If you really don't know any better? I don't know. Maybe credibility isn't the right word.

 

[flat tire]

Here the power that comes with the flexibility on DIY and OpenSource on TSDZ2:

That dude and his posts are annoying. The open source firmware is very cool, but who the hell pushes it like a used car salesman AND puts pictures of himself and his family in the same post? I'm confused and wondering what kind of pathology may have lead to him doing this crap in all kinds of random threads.

 

[markz]

Not sure about OP self promo comment. OP seems genuine to me.

Literally that was "the author", which could mean the OP but more likely referred to the previous post, an ad for TSDZ2 controller software. Advertising in a forum. If you probably know ads aren't appropriate, but you don't care and put one up anyway, does that reduce your credibility? If you really don't know any better? I don't know. Maybe credibility isn't the right word.

Yeah I did read that, somewhere on ES today, I think. But maybe it was a different thread. But it did sound like adv. I havent checked to see if what I'm thinking of was this thread, but it probably is. I wont bother double checking. From memory: adv post had user with 3k posts, which threw me off as well. I know what you are saying now.

 

[john61ct]

Here the power that comes with the flexibility on DIY and OpenSource on TSDZ2:

That dude and his posts are annoying. The open source firmware is very cool, but who the hell pushes it like a used car salesman AND puts pictures of himself and his family in the same post? I'm confused and wondering what kind of pathology may have lead to him doing this crap in all kinds of random threads.

I have no problem with family pics, personal touch is in the spirit of FOSS.

Crass promotion as if you want to one day make money, is a big red flag though.

 

[donn]

Open source has turned out to be a viable commercial strategy, right? If it looks like advertising, it is; open source or not is irrelevant.

If it's clearly in violation of something, then it's probably going to disappear shortly. If it isn't ... I would have to agree it seems slightly crass by my ever so refined standards, but then maybe if they were a little more refined yet, I'd think it was crass to say so.

 

[casainho]

Here the power that comes with the flexibility on DIY and OpenSource on TSDZ2:

That dude and his posts are annoying. The open source firmware is very cool, but who the hell pushes it like a used car salesman AND puts pictures of himself and his family in the same post? I'm confused and wondering what kind of pathology may have lead to him doing this crap in all kinds of random threads.

I have no problem with family pics, personal touch is in the spirit of FOSS.

Crass promotion as if you want to one day make money, is a big red flag though.

The project was develop with participation of many users and other developers, it is a community project far from being commercial product - and the developers are not winning any money, only winning the value of they can take out of using a special bicycle - you see, my kid with 7 years old, I would not be able to go to market and buy an ebike for him!! Or that hand cycles, I think it would be impossible to buy on the market for that price and customization/adaptation to the specifics of the user.

There are 2 shops selling this kit with this firmware and potentially winning money and they provide mostly hardware for me to keep developing. I am very happy to have shops selling because many users are no technical and prefer to pay and have support - still all the sources, documentation and knowledgment are free and OpenSource for the others that prefer DIY.

The promotion I do is due to my passion with this project, because I use every day my ebike as also my family so I took a lot of value out of it, that is why is so important, it is a pleasure and fitness machine, it is something really special!! I promote because I want to give for free, as much as possible to others.

 

[john61ct]

Personally I'm satisfied, for myself, but in the spirit of helping you, I stand by what I wrote, even if your intentions are pure.

Don't take this wrong, do what you like

but IMO such an enthusiastic promotional tone by the author reduces the credibility of the project.

 

[Timelord]

Relax, John. Casainho is okay. I got annoyed with all the software development discussions he poured into the general TSDZ2 topic, but the open source firmware is legit and they've all put a lot of work into it. If he thinks that firmware is great (and quite a few users seem to agree), then he can be forgiven for tooting his own horn every once in a while.

 

[john61ct]

I have stated that I do not doubt anything at all.

That does not change my advice, in order to help ensure the success of the project as it grows and matures.

He can take it or leave it of course.

And thanks for **your** concern for my state of mind, but am perfectly relaxed.

 

[markz]

Lets stay on topic to help out the Original Poster.
We get lots of these questions here on Endless Sphere, every....single.....day same questions.

3 diy choices
direct drive hub motor, front or rear
geared hub motor, front or rear
mid drive

More choices, store bought. We've been through it already. Proprietary parts are expensive. Some here are rich and ride store ebikes. Save your money and build your own, build what suits you, not the masses.

 

[donn]

More choices, store bought. We've been through it already. Proprietary parts are expensive. Some here are rich and ride store ebikes. Save your money and build your own, build what suits you, not the masses.

You're right that we've been through it; not so sure about the rest.

I used a kit, so somewhere in between - never spent a minute thinking about matching the controller to the motor and configuring it, and I didn't miss a thing there - if it was any extra money, it was well spent. I bought batteries separately, didn't weld one up out of a sack of cells. Just had to bolt the stuff on. I ride recumbents, so there wasn't any real choice there. That's a factor - if you want a particular ride that you can't get off the electric shelf. Also a factor is whether you like messing around with this stuff.

The lady of the house occasionally professes to want one. If that happens, it's going to be off the shelf, or she's going to get someone else to put it together. Another factor - whether you like riding a homemade contraption that someone else made.

Not so much of a factor: whether you're "rich". From what I can see, if you can afford to mess around with electric bicycles at this point, in the west, you're doing OK. There are some examples that are pretty spendy, but the guy I know of who rides one is not rich by anyone's definition - last summer I believe he was living in the park and catching and eating rabbits. I believe it's a Bianchi Aria. He spent the money and got what suited him.

 

[leisesturm]

Yikes, look what happened to my thread while I was away. Life got real interesting about 5 days after I posted back in March. I haven't needed to commute 15mi each way since then. If you get my meaning. So I had no reason to check back here until today. Literally, this morning.

Part of the o.p. has been answered. Last Friday Amazon delivered a brand new Mongoose Envoy (cargo bike) to my door and I did the final assembly over the weekend. Have done a few rides around town to see what I've got. I like it. Ticks all the boxes actually. Wheelbase, big rubber, lots of room for stuff. I don't plan for it to be a beast of burden. I've seen one thread on ES on this bike. It is a natural for e-assist.

I 'think' there might be a few TSDZ2 kits left in the world, but I think anything called a hub motor ... anything anyone would want to put in their e-bike ... you can't find that stuff for love or money right now. Wonder how long that will last? None of the bikes on my short list are available anytime soon. Even the Envoy, I had a hard time finding one in the MD/LG size. Only the SM/MD were in stock and only in single digit quantities. Someone must have returned the one I got, but it looks and feels brand new.

It's a tricky business managing expectations on a generalist forum when you have acquired specialist knowledge like @casainho. It's really the dealer's job to promote the stuff. I already knew quite a bit about the TSDZ2 and also the open source firmware and the 850c display. I just needed a bike to mount it all on.

But at this point I am wondering how long that blue gear would last in my cargo bike even with the kid glove treatment I would give it. I am tempted to get something like a Crystalyte 3540 (front) direct drive motor which would be quiet and strong enough for my needs and then some. Thanks to all who offered information.

 

[Balmorhea]

TSDZ2 is fatally flawed on a mechanical level. It breaks off at the crank spindle, which is significant because crank torque is how you make the thing go. A combination of design flaws make it unfixable, in my opinion as someone who has successfully fixed many flawed machines. The bottom bracket spindle suffers from insufficient diameter, poor material, and a groove cut into it at the worst possible place.

I’d choose BBS02 every time over TSDZ2, even though it isn’t without its problems. It’s not as dependable as the typical bike you put it on, and the bike becomes a lot less dependable once you install it (from coping with increased power through the chain drive). For commute-worthy reliability, I’d use a hub motor, though it’s generally a less interesting ride. (It’s still fun.) Leaf Bike offers one of the best, and is still shipping last time I checked.