*** E+ Beach Cruiser Information *** 6/7/2013

[kc8hps]

E+ Beach Cruiser Information


First off I am Bryan from Denver Colorado USA.

Pardon me if this gets to be a long thread but I sense there is much that needs to be consolidated , and also much still to be known

about these bikes made by Electric Motion Systems.

I have taken the last few days to read the forums and threads/links about the E+ bikes in general.

I thought I would complie what I do know (or think I know) about them into one thread. Given the amount of time spent trying to learn

what I have found thus far, I thought it might be helpful to put a great share of it in one place and let the additions, conversations, and

corrections go on from there.

1. EMS = Electric Motions Systems is no longer in business, Date of closer I do not know.

2. No schematics were released and no parts lists with outside manufactures is available.

3. For what I know there is not owners manuals available on line for the E+ Beach Cruiser or other E+ bikes. If someone has them

and possibly in PDF form it would be nice to make them available for what information they contain.

4. There have been problems with the 36vdc front hub batteries. The Nickle Metal Hydride cells fail on some level and need to be

tested and replaced, ( a complicated but not impossible process). These batteries are known as the "A" battery pack on the controller.

5. The Lithium batteries known as the "B" pack which attach behind the seat at the aux connector were recalled due to several fires

and potentially dangerous charging/ usage possibilites.

6. There has been some question as to if the A & B packs work in a seperate mode or if they function as a pair in a parallel

configuration. Due to lack of solid information about the hardware/firmware and software functions I'm not sure there is an absolute

answer. My guess is they are interdependent to keep the controller alive but function seperately as they feed power to the brushless

motor on the rear wheel.

7. I inquired of Lyen about using one of his controllers and bypassing the EMS equipment for the most part. He informed me in an

email the following and I quote " Anyway, unfortunately the motor it a non-standardized design with 7 motor phases. Where as most

motors are three phases only. Therefore, the controllers we offered are incompatible."

8. The power connectors for the battery/charger hookups are a Delphi project series called Metri pak 480, you will find them on

ebay.com they can be a bit pricey but it beats buying in bulk when not needed. (I thought originally that they were the weather pak

series, and they are NOT).

9. I have read in the forum (SOMEWHERE) that there maybe a jumper wire that can be added to the controller to make some part of

the system function on some level. I can not seem to find it again. I also do now know if that was for the E+/EMS controlle or for the

Tidalforce controller, (Tidalforce , also defunct, was the designer of the motor that was later sold and used by E+/EMS) I know the

system are not identical but are similar in some respects.

10. Lastly it would appear the idea of this bike series was well intended. It worked well but after the failure of the company, and the fact

that is on some levels over engineered, small problems have now become big ones for those who still have the product and do not

want a large/costly white elephant sitting on the apartment balcony or in the garage/basement.

Anyone who has solutions that might be buried in the bowels of these previous post, please put your updates in this thread of one of

your own. I hope this will consolidate most of what we know and don't know.. thanks Bryan

 

[ambroseliao]

Welcome Bryan,

There are some minor and major mistakes in your list. I am familiar with the Tidalforce line of bikes since I've owned many and am not so familiar with the EMS line but still have some knowledge about them.

E+ Beach Cruiser Information

1. EMS = Electric Motions Systems is no longer in business, Date of closer I do not know.

EMS shut their doors very quietly at the end of 2011. I know because I was buying used Tidalforce bikes they had left in stock at that time and talked with a former employee of both EMS and Wavecrest Labs (company that sold TF bikes).

2. No schematics were released and no parts lists with outside manufactures is available.

As far I know, true.

3. For what I know there is not owners manuals available on line for the E+ Beach Cruiser or other E+ bikes. If someone has them and possibly in PDF form it would be nice to make them available for what information they contain.

Again, true, as far as I know.

4. There have been problems with the 36vdc front hub batteries. The Nickle Metal Hydride cells fail on some level and need to be tested and replaced, ( a complicated but not impossible process). These batteries are known as the "A" battery pack on the controller.

True.

5. The Lithium batteries known as the "B" pack which attach behind the seat at the aux connector were recalled due to several fires and potentially dangerous charging/ usage possibilites.

True, however, there were also NiMH B batteries.

6. There has been some question as to if the A & B packs work in a seperate mode or if they function as a pair in a parallel configuration. Due to lack of solid information about the hardware/firmware and software functions I'm not sure there is an absolute answer. My guess is they are interdependent to keep the controller alive but function seperately as they feed power to the brushless motor on the rear wheel.

Don't know about this for EMS or for Tidalforce. I have a Tidalforce B battery, however it is not functional so couldn't test.

7. I inquired of Lyen about using one of his controllers and bypassing the EMS equipment for the most part. He informed me in an email the following and I quote " Anyway, unfortunately the motor it a non-standardized design with 7 motor phases. Where as most motors are three phases only. Therefore, the controllers we offered are incompatible."

Not true for the EMS motors. Because of patents sold by Tidalforce to Matra, EMS could not use the Tidalforce 7 phase motor. The EMS motors are indeed 3 phase motors, however, it would take quite a bit of work to retrofit an EMS motor for an external controller because the controller is embedded in the EMS motor housing.

8. The power connectors for the battery/charger hookups are a Delphi project series called Metri pak 480, you will find them on ebay.com they can be a bit pricey but it beats buying in bulk when not needed. (I thought originally that they were the weather pak series, and they are NOT).

The EMS used a 3 prong Delphi Metripack 480 connector whereas the Tidalforce used a 2 prong Delphi Metripack 480 connector.

9. I have read in the forum (SOMEWHERE) that there maybe a jumper wire that can be added to the controller to make some part of the system function on some level. I can not seem to find it again. I also do now know if that was for the E+/EMS controlle or for the Tidalforce controller, (Tidalforce , also defunct, was the designer of the motor that was later sold and used by E+/EMS) I know the system are not identical but are similar in some respects.

The jumper allowed the use of an auxiliary "B" battery. You could add the jumper to Tidalforce bikes but not to EMS bikes. This single thing makes the Tidalforce bikes much more flexible and allows for the easy addition of 3rd party batteries. Miro13car here has been able to add a A123 20Ah prismatic pack to his EMS based bike but it's highly complex and not for everyone! See http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40010

10. Lastly it would appear the idea of this bike series was well intended. It worked well but after the failure of the company, and the fact that is on some levels over engineered, small problems have now become big ones for those who still have the product and do not want a large/costly white elephant sitting on the apartment balcony or in the garage/basement.

I've not had any issues (besides battery issues) with my Tidalforce bikes. They are gloriously engineered. The Tidalforce motors are silky smooth and totally silent. They are built to military standards and are, to me, works of technical art! EMS systems are similarly engineered.

Anyone who has solutions that might be buried in the bowels of these previous post, please put your updates in this thread of one of your own. I hope this will consolidate most of what we know and don't know.. thanks Bryan

Thanks for posting this summary. I love Tidalforce bikes and love to share info about them. See my blog for more ebike and Tidalforce info. Do you own or plan to own a EMS or Tidalforce bike?

Ambrose

 

[kc8hps]

Ambrose,

Thanks so much for posting your knowledge. Your words of wisdom and history in this forum are really good.
You have clarified a few things I was wondering about especially with the 7 phase issue as it relates to Tidalforce vs. the EMS bikes.

Personally I feel confident that I would be able to remove the controller from the back wheel and do the change of the controller. Again this is not for everyone and I'm no genius either. I have had a few years around electronics and can solder pretty well.

If I attempt this feat I will post pictures with details of how I do it. For those interested in my other projects you will find me at www.instructables.com search for me as "KC8HPS" << my Ham Radio call sign. My website (not well maintained currently) has some of my antenna plans etc. www.kc8hps.com

Again if anyone wants to chime in here all the contributions are helpful for a noob like me and others who might visit here. Also if I am missing any pieces that someone knows is critical to maintaining these bikes, by all means share what you know or think you know << like me.

I'm sure by putting out what you know and it turns out to be wrong, chances are people will learn from yours and others input.

Peace, Bryan

 

[ambroseliao]

Thanks Bryan,

Rewiring a motor controller would not be the first project I would recommend for a newbie. What is the current state of your E+ cruiser? Does it run? Are the batteries good?

Ambrose

 

[kc8hps]

Ambrose,

Here is what I know. The first owner of the bike had a good experience for the first 25 miles, after that point things went down hill fast.

Ems replaced the batteries and the hub was reinstalled. The controller now reads Err1 most everytime the unit is turned on. I have done the reboot/reset procedure give by someone here on the forum by taking the controller down to the data line going into the hub/A battery and doing a restart there.
At first I thought that worked but the next time I tried it the issue was back. Im talking 5 minutes time, not over night or anything.

I have put the charger on the battery probably 5 times in the last week to see what it would do. ALL times it goes through the normal charge cycle with the light going in the proper order according the the PDF I found on the internet. after about 4-6 hours the state of charge ends with a green steady light on the charger.

I have yet to hear on the forum what the Error codes actually mean. Perhaps I didn't see this information.
It might be helpful if any one knows what Error1, Error2 means etc. Is there and Error 3 or 4?
I'm beginning to believe an Error 1 might be a bad cell in the newly replaced hub batteries, does anyone know and can confirm this?

Im also assuming that the B batter given that it could be NiMh or Lithium, that those battery packs as well had some type of circuitry inside of them?

The controller comes on for maybe 7-10 seconds, cycles between A and B batteries seeking I assume a voltage level indication. I also see the LOCK symbol on the controller. After learning of the security code etc, I talked to the previous owner who said he had no knowledge of a security code needed to run the bike.
Im assuming if a code is needed Im kind of struck in the knees before I begin.

 

[oatnet]

I have a distant recollection of seeing that err1 come up a few years ago, and I think it was a loose data cable down by the motor that I had just kicked loose. If not that, maybe it was when I had to replug the connectors going into the dash.

-JD

 

[kc8hps]

I have a distant recollection of seeing that err1 come up a few years ago, and I think it was a loose data cable down by the motor that I had just kicked loose. If not that, maybe it was when I had to replug the connectors going into the dash.

-JD

JD thanks for the input. Come to mention it if you are looking down at the "DASH" from above the first connector you see is one I am having some issues with.. Im not sure about loose perse, but It is locked on and will not come off even when the retaining sleeve is pulled back. Im now curious if there is a loose wire in there. I have gingerly taken it off before.

One other question for those in the know.. when charging the front hub does the data cable have to be plugged in to the dash/controller in order to charge well or is the controller totally asleep at that point?

 

[ambroseliao]

If the charging is similar to the Tidalforce bikes, then you don't need to disconnect the data cable. Just plug in the charger to the battery.

 

[kc8hps]

If the charging is similar to the Tidalforce bikes, then you don't need to disconnect the data cable. Just plug in the charger to the battery.

Thanks Ambroseliao I have tried both ways and I get not charge, I just thought due to having no owners manual that there might be some trick to it.

Thanks again, Bryan

 

[dnmun]

i don't think there is another 7 phase motor controller out there. i think they made the only one.

 

[kc8hps]

i don't think there is another 7 phase motor controller out there. i think they made the only one.

Yeah I'm pretty unsure. I was told Tidalforce had the 7 phase motor but the design was sold to a firm in Europe and that EMS did not use it.. Wish I knew forsure. I dont have a security code for this bike so I might be screwed out of using it from the get go.