eLation 200watt kit (Australia)

[wildnrg]

Ok, best place to start I suppose it at the start of this post.
Just like you take off from start in 3rd gear for your car, nor should you for the bike. With so many gears available most riders (electric and no-electric) will come to discover the range of gearing that suits them.

I used take off in 1st while clipping in my second foot, but I found that I had hit the top speed for first gear before my foot was clipped in.

These days, I take off in 2nd gear, and the bike takes off much nicer. I guess gears aren't as important for electric motors as they are for engines (especially the narrow power band of diesel engines), as with electric if you've got the AMPs available the motor with get you going even in top gear. What I do like about having a geared system and a cycle analyst to give me realtime power consumption, is that you can change gears to minimize the power consumption. For example on my ride home along the cycle path, I'm limit myself to 25-30km/h even though my top speed is 47km/h without pedaling. I found that going from 6th gear to 7th the I could reducethe motor RPM maintain the same speed and draw less power, which means extending my range. Also increase in power consumption as speed increases over 25km is so not linear.

You can't do that with a hub motor.

Second you can't do with a hub motor is decide if you want to go up a hill at 15km/h in 1st, or 25km/h in 2nd Given that max torque occurs at a lower RPM than max power, I get better performance and range from using a higher gear and lower RPM.

All that aside, 500W chain driven system is great, 200W just isn't enough, 200W what I use to cruise on the flats at 25km/h , taking off at the lights, I'm drawing 800W

 

[elation]

Hi Trev

You have a good memory and have caught me out. But the reason I now go and buy the slabs is so I can test the load carrying ability of the system LOL Boy, the things I have to do for Research and Development.

Hi Don

Whoa, you are starting to raise the bar for answers. hehe

I started to write an explanation of Work and how it relates to force, distance power and time. But it does not take long before it gets too involved and hard to avoid maths.

I suppose I wanted to avoid bogging down in design and maths and hopefully try and offer a view of design concepts and philosophy to consider. The maths is available on a number of sites dealing with physics. I hope to try and demonstrate/advise a more practical approach to our desired goals.

Ok, how does this sound; All things in moderation, including torque!!!!!

Torque is good, if applied correctly and keeping in mind the cost to other aspects of performance. For example, maximum torque is achieved with the motor at full power but stalled (stall torque). Great, you have awesome torque but are not going anywhere!!!

So excellent torque on its own is not the answer, especially if speed and efficiency are sacrificed needlessly.

The average bike now has 24 gears, allowing for a gear ratio of 1:1 to 4:1 (and higher). Again, the average rider will be able to ride along flat roads continuously at 15-20 kph. This will consume around 100W of power. However for hills that 100W is used up real quick and for a 8% hill speed would need to drop to around 5 kph. A reduction in speed of of 4:1 (limits of gearing) and often needing some people walk because it a bit slow to balance also.

With pedal assist the average rider will achieve speeds of at least 30 kph, and this suits most riders. So the only area left to consider is hills (consider headwind as a hill for simplicity). Here is were the torque comes to play. For the same 8% gradient the rider can now travel up at 15 kph with the available 300W power (200+100).

So torque is important, but should be considered in the arrangement of the existing bike gears, NOT the motor gear. I believe (my opinion only) the only time the gears for motor drive should be changed is for an 'extreme condition' (eg, elderly, very unfit, serious mountain terrain, medical, etc). If a person feels a need to change this outside of these conditions then I feel it would be to fine tune the motors range of rpm (cadence) more closely to the individual rider. Very much the same as people have their cars worked up.

A motors speed can/will change from two points. One is reduced power at input, the other is increased load. If the gear ratio is changed to better suit a higher cadence, then I think it is a good chance it is being done to allow a bit more top end throttle range to 'play with'; so this change is based on matching power applied better to rider speed.

I hope this has helped a bit Don. If not let me know.

Finally, what would I like to see to assist these individuals needs? A mappable throttle that has a number of set curves for throttle control. This combined with the abilty to still change system parameters mechanical would IMHO be the ultimate solution. Stay tuned

 

[elation]

Hi Wildnrg

Your post hits the nail on the head perfectly. It is about the ability to control different aspect of the system for different aspects of the ride. This is sometimes done with gearing, and other times with throttle (speed).

I found using CA that by increasing my cadence by 1-3 rpm I could save on nearly 1A power, or reducing speed by 1 km I could drop a gear and save nearly 2A of current.

Most people do not need this level of instrument and find a speedo is enough (That should be minimum instrument IMHO). I do not use the CA now, so I can get the same 'feel' as my average client. It does not take long to hear what is going on with the bike and to change "operational parameters" to suit.

After all, how many of us use the tacho in our car to change gear??? I would think that most of us just become attuned to the car's operation.

Cheers
Allan

 

[donob08]

Allan

I wonder if some people learn a trick of not down shifting as much when they come to a hill when using 'elation' assist. For the motors I've found plots for there seems to be a trend. For the middle part of the speed/torque curve, forcing (because of hill => gravity in our case) the engine to run at 70% of its normal (flat road) speed causes the torque to double. So power output = k * torque * rpm = k * 0.70 * 2 = 1.40 times its flat road level. Yes, this extra torque means extra current => shorter battery life, but the rider feels that the motor has stepped up its output and the hill seems easier. If the rider shifts down, the motor sees pretty much the same load, runs at the same speed and therefor puts out the same power. The bike is moving more slowly now so same power still means more force at the wheels. The question is what's the tradeoff.

If the rider adds more throttle making the effective (average) voltage seen by the motor higher that would increase the top speed, but has a small effect on torque. The motor can really only increase power if it "feels" the hill. Otherwise the rider has to supply significant extra muscle as required by the hill.

Does this make sense?

Don

 

[elation]

Hi Don

Yes I think I understand where you are coming from and will add my 2 cents worth

The only part I query is your statement of gained 'benefits' of torque doubling for a cost of only 1.4 increase in power.

Power = Constant * Torque * rpm (as you correctly say).

This is a linear equation and so a doubling in ONE factor on the right will double power. You have explained your concept by adjusting TWO factors on the right of the equation. You have doubled torque, and reduced speed. So here is your (balanced) equation now:

1.4Power = k * 2Torque * .7 rpm

Let's normalize the equation back to SAME rpm (divided both sides by 0.7). I hope you can now see by keeping all other factors constant you need to double power to double torque.

We come back to:

2Power = k * 2Torque * rpm

So your question

The question is what's the tradeoff.

is now partly answered, the trade off was speed in your example.

Hope this helps.

I would also like to present my laymen's interpretation of a motor in action to help explain the other trade off.

Using a DC permanent magnet motor for this explanation.

First lets remove the magnet so what we have is a simple coil, just like for an electromagnet.

A normal electromagnets coil resistance will be comparably higher than for a motor coil using the same voltage. This is because the electromagnet is designed to have full current passing through the coil continuously. So the electromagnet's coil current is limited solely by the coils resistance.

With a motor this is not always true, especially if we want the most "bang for bucks" from it. Motor windings generally have a lower resistance to allow a higher current flow for more power.

There are two ways a motor's current is controlled:

• 1. The controller - The controller limits current flow by quickly turn the voltage on and off. There are numerous methods used here, but for this explanation they are not important. So if the voltage is 50% on and 50% off the net result is 50% full current flow.

• 2. Back EMF - When a magnet is moved/rotated inside a coil, the coil will generate a voltage or EMF. So when a magnet is rotated inside a motor it generates a voltage. But this voltage is in opposition to the voltage being supplied to run the motor, so it has the effect of cancelling out the applied voltage.

Continuing on explaining the effect of Back EMF:

This back emf is at it's highest point when the motor has no load as that is when the magnet is spinning its fastest past the coils. The small amount of current used by the motor is to overcome real world loads of friction (bearing, wind, etc), motor losses (iron, copper) and small amount of heat generated in the coils.

Conversely, back EMF will be at its lowest when the motor is stalled, because there is no rotation, hence no EMF generated. This is also when the coil is conducting the highest amount of current. It is also when the coil is MOST VULNERABLE.

Why? (Glad you asked )

A motor's windings are not always on during operation. They turn on and off during operation to create a rotating magnet field. This means that each coil has a duty cycle of approx 66% ( BLDC motor, 3 phase, on for 2 cycles). This means that a coil (of given size) can handle even more current than if it had to operate 100% of the time. So again, more 'bang for buck'.

A problem arises though when the motor stall or operates too slow. The coil will now exhibit properties of a heater.

Imagine a queue of people (electrons) filing into a stadium prior to the big game. Most of the time the queue is orderly and there is a wide enough aisle (conductor/wire) to accept the number of people. The trouble starts though when the game is about to start and the queue is too large for the aisle. People start to get more agitated and tempers flare (heating). If this state of affair continues then it is only a matter of time before there is a meltdown (meltdown )

So the final part of the answer to your question:

what's the tradeoff.

Heat, resulting in lower efficiency and potential long term damage, creating either catastrophic failure or shortened life.

Your curves probably were also showing output power, and so efficiency would not affect these two graph lines. If you were to do same exercise considering input power then you would see a worse power result (but then would be changing two factors again, power/eff or speed/eff).

Finally, back to gears and ratios (still in this post context). Your explanation of increasing torque by loading the motor (decreasing motor speed) is in essence correct. But remember this is a result of increased load, which can be increased by climbing a hill OR lifting up in gear. So I come full circle back to my comments that a bike has a wide range of gears (ave 24). Changing the driven gear ring is possible if that extra bit of fine tuning is desired, but I do not think it would be required for +99% of riders.

Cheers
Allan

 

[lesspedal]

Have to say,
What an excellent and easy to understand description of how these motors work.
Just learnt more from that post than the whole time i've been interested in these things.
Excellent stuff Allan.

 

[donob08]

Allan

I’ve been wrong. To gear to get lower rpm the gears would have decrease mechanical advantage in order to increase the required torque by the amount required by speed/torque curve of the motor, 2x in my example. The increased torque would just be matched by the decreased mechanical advantage. The reduced motor rpm would be compensated by the greater speed ratio of the reduced mechanical advantage. Efficiency would be down because it is a strong function of speed.

I was looking for an explanation for the differences in owners' appraisal of the assist provided. I was thinking (incorrectly) that since gears trade off torque and speed 1:1 and motor speed torque plots show 2.8 : 1 for the torque - speed ratio there was an advantage in using gears to move to a different point on the motor curve. I missed the fact that the gears have to be changed according to the motor curve to get the reduced speed in order to increase torque.

I guess I shouldn’t question a professional. I still would like to understand the differences in the perception of performance.

Don

 

[elation]

Hi Trevor

Stop it I will blush

Hi Don

I don't think you are wrong, I think you come at the post from a different angle to set things right in your mind, and it sounds like you have now achieved that

I guess I shouldn’t question a professional.

Why Not? ; and who is the professional LOL

I am glad you posted your question as it makes me reconsider my process and thought pattern. I will let you in on a secret, but don't tell anyone.

I make mistakes too. Yes I know hard to believe, it has only taken me 3 years to refine the eLation.

Jokes aside, if it was not for all the feedback and questions I received from people (and yes me acting on it) then the improvements would not be there.

For example, I currently only offer tapered/square crank arms. Because of a couple of requests I am now also looking at stocking ISIS.

So without the comments or feedback we will not continue to improve. Nor will my thought process.

In relation to:

I still would like to understand the differences in the perception of performance.

I think the key word is 'perception'. Some people perceive an electric bike to be a 'cheap' version of a scooter. Others don't understand the term 'pedal assist' , and I think some just don't appreciate how hard it is to get 200W to do what the eLation gets it to do.

By way of comparison: Assume a total weight of eLation bike plus rider to be 100kg. We use 200W to propel that 100kg along at up to 35kph. A medium size car has 8000W to move each 100kg of mass.

Perception: What we call a mountain here, New Zealanders call a hill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers
Allan

 

[wildnrg]

Others don't understand the term 'pedal assist' , and I think some just don't appreciate how hard it is to get 200W to do what the eLation gets it to do.

LoL with my 24V 25AH pack and 500W motor, I rode home (27km) without pedaling at all and only used 15AH.

Pedal assist = Me assisting the motor LoL

 

[elation]

LOL

What you can't out power your 500W motor, What's wrong with you

Oh the joy there would be to have a sensible government to allow a more liberal rating.

 

[competitions]

Allan, I'm contemplating a unit mainly to help with hills and if I get exhausted on long rides. (Currently can cope with long flat rides).

Just wondering, apart from the local support and advice available, what advantages are there in elation over cyclone 3 chainwheel kits with similiar rated motor?

Thanks in advance.

 

[elation]

Hi Competetions

Hmmmmmmmmmm, I am not sure I am the best one to answer that. I believe I know the answers, but lets face it, I designed the eLation and sell it.

So of course I believe it is better. I will do my best to answer with no bias, hopefully only proven/known points.

ALL , please note I have been ASKED to provide this 'commercial' so no picking on me HAHA

To start I dont think you should under estimate local support. This support is not just about any issues you may have only being a phone call away, but also I can AND DO act on any design feedback.

Here is a list as I see it:

• eLation actually has 4 RINGS, not 3 like Cyclone. We leave the original 3 for the bike and a fourth for the motor drive.

• We use the 4 hole 64/104 BCD STANDARD for ALL FOUR gear rings. This means you can replace rings with any standard parts from local bike shops. You can also then choose not only the teeth count, but ring quality to suit your needs/budget.

• ALL our wearing parts are standard bike parts available from your local bike shop.

• Our bike mount system is more flexible and truer locating. There are aspects of our system that we have not highlighted on the web for reasons of design. This will change soon as there are enough systems out there now and eLation is established with enough credibility in its own right.

• We now use a sprag type clutch for out crank system, not the failure prone ratchet bearing still used in Cyclones.

• Parts have been purpose designed and a strong effort has been made to ensure aesthetics are good. I have to agree with a large number of people who say Cyclone is very 'rough looking'.

• Battery is mounted SECURELY via key lock. We use metal mount arms and the battery case slides into place. Once locked it would take determined effort and possibly some tools to take pack. But still can be removed/replaced in 30 seconds once unlocked.

• The final point is that eLation continues to strive for advancement of system design and abilities. We are not sitting back on existing design and just making profit. A large amount of our funds still go to advancing the system. Eg Version 3 is moving along well. Don't wait for this though, is still at least 6 months off (providing we can meet effective cost price). I still spend most of Fridays searching out better ideas and talking to suppliers about design ideas.

• BUT, I think the most important reason to buy an eLation>>>> I am better looking PMSL

Here is a snippet from a posting on the Endless Sphere Forum, and have shown on http://elationebikes.com.au/Testimonials.htm

• Question that was posed:
  
  "If you previously owned a cyclone, would be interesting to hear your comparison between cyclone and elation. My view is that the elation has a far nicer motor attaching arrangement, the heart of the elation system is the crank set up, as well as being a beautiful looking piece of engineering".
  
  The response:
  
  "The eLation system is superior in a number of ways. Having the full range of gears leaves your bike to perform as it was designed. Elation's crank system delivers a more efficient system and I agree that it is far more elegant. The mounting and design is more robust. Component parts are of higher quality and deliver better performance. Having said all that, I think the Cyclone does what its sets out to do. It's a simple drive assist using the chain. The motor is robust and reliable.
  
  My problem was with the battery. I did almost 4000km on my Cyclone system and IF I could have found a reliable supplier close to home for a battery replacement I may have just upgraded the battery.
  
  Having now installed an eLation kit on a new bike - there is no comparison and it's not a fair test of the Cyclone kit to do so.
  
  When I looked at paying almost $800 for a LiFePO4 battery for an old system, I considered it was better economy to do a full upgrade to a new system. This is what I did and I'm very happy.
  
  I did a fair bit of research and I came down on the side of the eLation kit. I'm glad that I did its was an excellent choice."

Maybe some owners may jump in with their comments.

Cheers
Allan

 

[wildnrg]

I've got a Cyclone kit (only because when I emailed elation it was recommended that it wouldn't be good for a dual suspension setup). When I emailed Cyclone they said no problems.

During my initial research, the pictures of the Cyclone kit had a spring idle wheel that looks like it keeps the tension on the drive chain.

Now, after my Cyclone build, I have concluded that I could have installed the elation kit for two reason, firstly my bottom bracket and my main frame do not move in relation to each other, so the motor and the chain rings will not cause the chain to stretch or become lose, and if it did an idle wheel with a spring would keep the chain in tension anyway.

Not having owned an elation, but comparing pictures, I would say the elation is more polished than the cyclone. The elation motor mount appears to be better made and better designed, the only reason my cyclone mount works well for me is I made a few modifications to it, but if you're not mechanically minded, you'd struggle with the Cyclone install as for starters, no instructions, nothing, just some pictures (which aren't all that accurate) on their web site. At on stage before I remounted my motor I was considering buying an elation mount, but now that I've done some modifications to the cyclone mount, I'm very happy with it.

The battery mount of the elation kit looks and sounds cool, but for me, the batteries were always going to mount on my rear rack as I have no room in the frame.

I do like the elation cranks and chain ring (not that the extra chain ring will help me as I removed my front derailler).

Does elation sell the cranks and chainring without the rest of the kit? how much?

 

[elation]

Hey Wildnrg

Yeah is a bummer about advice I give for rear suspension bikes. The reason is that there are a number of variants with rear suspension and SOME can cause issues, so I air on the side of caution and lose the sale; such is life.

In regard to battery mounting. We offer a rear rack system that we extend the wiring up to. Then the battery is still mounted securely via same locking system. This option is $200 which has alloy rack, extended motor wiring, etc all pre-configured. This is used mainly for female frames.

At present, much to the annoyance of a number of people, we still only sell complete kits and then support those clients with parts. This is for four reasons:

• We have trouble keeping up with sales of kits.

• Most of our IP is in the 'cheaper' parts and so would want to sell them above reasonable value expected.

• If we sold parts, then they are clearly for people to either do their own thing or to upgrade their Cyclone system. Both reasons put less profit into our bank account.

• We needed to be sure all parts functioned well within the complete system, and did not want any issues exacerbated by backyard tinkering issues.

This policy will be changing soon and we will be looking at making some parts available for 'outside' sales.

Cheers
Allan


PS. We are currently looking at expanded crank system options. It is hoped we will eventually offer square taper and ISIS, but also 4 hole and 5 hole BCD options. Samples of components are currently being made for testing.

 

[wildnrg]

Well so far my cyclone cranks are working out fine, but like I said in my previous post, I like the look of the elation cranks and chainring and if they are supposedly better than the cyclone cranks, I'd probably buy them they are become available.

To me it doesn't make sense not to sell parts and only sell kits. If I couldn't make $1000 selling a full kit, I'd rather make $250 instead of $0. But that's me. I hope I can give you some business in the future buying upgrade parts, but unless the motor falls off the mount and gets written off I can't justify buying a whole kit for some cranks and chainrings.

Good work with the elation design, I suspect the cyclone 3 chain kit is a Chinese knock off.

 

[kentlim26]

any part in the kit/ hub / rc gears/ chain , things will wear off when is used for a long time. so a spare parts is the most important item after a sale service. without a spare parts, that is how come i scrab away my suzuki cub 110cc, i ask the Suzuki agent, you got this spare parts... guess what he say.. " sorry don't have,, " got to find. even the simplest spare parts I had ask him, (agent) speedometer cable also don't have. everything don't have right, - then good luck to them. I won't be buying anything call "suzuki" . :lol: :lol:

secrets of Super successful HONDA brand in singapore. 1. lots of spare parts for replacement, gear, chain, anything+ super experience service centre, the shop will be always there, so this goes the same for a ebike kit. Over a long time using, gears will need replaced. some times, everything need to replace. So never worry about profit will drop, competition is everywhere, is a fact. if you can sell anything,, Go for it sell them. You can mark up abit higher for a single item, if you fear lost for profit. anywhere in the world, get a individual item is expensive, a bluk is cheaper. A whole kit is cheaper, individual item is always slightly more expensive. i can say in here some shenwei ebike seem to be better choice. 1. it can ferry a person, speed at least 30km/h above. complete build with a security alarm+ 2 keys, very beautiful build. i cannot match them with beautiful build.

in here there a shop name ah BOY,, (singapore) you know how he sell his items? anyhow... he is several millionaire man, even i have to ask him for a item, i got to queue. he is talking NON-stop for quoting price. i got to shout to ask for a price ,, how much?? too good price i don't need to look othe else where. No matter at what time and what date, he is super busy. to be successful in a business world in any competition.. it is your wide range products, price+ serviceable kits+ importantly spare parts Cannot be mISSed out.

cheers
kentlim

 

[alswiseowl]

allan it seems alot of people may go for cyclone because of the more powerful motors,controllers they offer i suspect,

i noticed your kits only go to 500watt 24v,which im sure would be a nice ride,but for offroad puposes may not enough
will you ever sell 36v500-900watt or 48v1000watt+ kits,or motors + controllers with your cranksystem....
i would prefer a local seller,but am very tempted at cyclones power there kits offer.

 

[elation]

Hi Wildnrg and Kentlim26

There are a few reasons why we don't sell spare parts, at least for the moment.

At present we purchase a volume of each component to allow complete kits to be made. We still tend to sell +90% of kits prior to them being assembled/available for sale; in other words we normally have a waiting list.

If we were to sell a component on its own then we would be left with the balance of the kit unsellable unless we replace the sold component. So although I may make a profit for that component sale, 1-2 weeks later I have lost the balance of profit and now have a partial kit on the books until the next order.

The same situation exists for clients who own kits. However, the big difference is we will support those who supported us, so if it means breaking a complete kit to supply the part, so be it. Please also note that although we have been going 3 years now, we have had a very small demand for replacement parts as they don't fail. That is not to say we have not had some warranty issues, but then they have been addressed as would be expected. On the few occasions we have needed to provide replacement parts to kit clients we have gone on to use a number of the other kit components for ongoing R&D or testing (so no wastage :wink: ).

Next is that cyclone are a bit more fortunate in that they live 'next door' to the manufacturers and so order numbers can be kept to a minimum (sometimes off the shelf). We need to order volume and often have +$60k tied up for nearly 3 months before we can start making a cent. So it stands to reason (I would hope) that while sales stay strong we dedicate our resources to complete kits and those client who support us with both feet.

So rest assured, we will ALWAYS supply replacement parts, we are still yet to decide on whether we will sell spare parts

Hi alswiseowl

This is about supply and demand. Your requirement would be considered 'special', well not for members of this forum, but for the general Australian public. Even with us advertising that we have a 500W systems we have only sold approximately 10 * 500W systems in 3 years. We sell a larger number of 300W, but they are to people who have been advised of the Australian laws and consequences of having an illegal system. After we explain the FULL story, I would say +85% of people change their mind and take up the 200W system.

There are a number of design ideas being undertaken at the moment, but I am sorry, none of them involve systems over 500W for the time being; the numbers just are not there.

Finally, the comment above in relation to order volume and cyclones location near manufacturers applied to your question also. If I had the manufacturers on my door step I might advertise goods for sale that I may not carry in stock.

Cheers
Allan

 

[alswiseowl]

HI allan,
i definatly believe that 85% of people would go for the 200watt kit,once they know the australian laws,+ im suprised you have had only 10 sales of the 500watt kit in 3 years,i think it might be that at 500watt kit you sell still runs on 24v,+ alot of people figure they need more volts for more power & what have you.
basically im getting at,if the 500watt kit ran on 36v or 48v,makes me like to think that you would have had more than 10 sales for the 500watt kit in 3years..maybe im wrong

i understand the limitations when you mention,not being next door to the manufacturer...if i had invented your design(basically if i was you)
i would set up a office next to the manufactuer,& go global from there...but hay im not you..wish i was lol..but then that would bring its own ups & downs,more ups i think

either way best of luck allan
Alex

 

[elation]

Hi Alex

I would be happy to hear your comments on why you see 24V as an issue compared to 36 or 48V

Also, would take any advice that would show how to set up an overseas operation that does not add overhead costs to our system. I have done the numbers and can't see how it will be cost effective without moving there to run operations.

I am always open to alternate ideas that will improve not only the system but methods to allow to get to the masses more cost effectively.

Cheers
Allan

 

[zx6rj1]

5-Months update

Ok.. a long overdue update on my eLation kit:

- After changing back from roadbike to MTB I no longer have to plug the puncure every fortnight.

- My cruising speed is increasing somewhat. I use to do 27-28kph but now very regularly see 30kph. Minimal pedalling and minimal throttle (70-80%). Top speed reached was 46kph (no wind). I've gone toe to toe with cars at 60 zone but with very strong wind from behind (one of those really windy days).

- I haven't changed my mind on gearing down the front crankset. It's great. The caveat is you can't simply "give it" to the throttle. need to be gentle, but then the traction is longer and more purposeful. It's almost similar to gearing down motorcycle. Less acceleration but not running out of breath too quickly.

- Weather proven! It was pissing down on that BV ride to work day (and freezing cold).

- A LOT of interests from coworkers etc. But I think it is still too alien for them car-driving species. Even more alien than my Ninja he..he..

- One broken screw thread for battery mount while moving from one bike to another. But Aluminum will always be too soft for threads.


Welcome to the forum Allan. Great to know you're here

 

[elation]

Hi zx6rj1

Glad to see things are going well. I have a number of emails with similar comment.s I do not publish them all as the skeptics will question their authenticity, and the rest of you already know what you say

- One broken screw thread for battery mount while moving from one bike to another. But Aluminum will always be too soft for threads.

What happened? Can you send pic to me at eLation so I can assess and review please.

Cheers
Allan

 

[wildnrg]

Hi zx6rj1

Glad to see things are going well. I have a number of emails with similar comment.s I do not publish them all as the skeptics will question their authenticity, and the rest of you already know what you say

- One broken screw thread for battery mount while moving from one bike to another. But Aluminum will always be too soft for threads.

What happened? Can you send pic to me at eLation so I can assess and review please.

Cheers
Allan

Why don't you publish them on your website? Love to see more photos etc on there.

 

[zx6rj1]

Hi Allan,

I will try to take pictures soon and explain. Actually it's great to know that you as manufacturer wanting inputs for product enhancements

At the moment 3 screws are holding the battery, and is a non-issue (very firm).

 

[elation]

Why don't you publish them on your website? Love to see more photos etc on there.

Hi zx6rj1

If you don't mind could you send to me at eLation still for the record and feel free to post here if you wish.

Cheers
Allan