Election Map

John in CR said:
While the relatively small amount of bad stuff gets all the press, there's an awful lot of good in religion, much of which is far more broadly needed. I'm not big on organized religion either, but what you post is pure prejudice, so don't fault people for what they believe as long as it doesn't affect you. There's a lot unknown about the universe, so maybe there are other planes of existence where things are better.

I struggle to think of a single reason why religion as a whole entity is a good thing and it isn't for want of trying or from hearing the arguments for it. Of course there are good religious people that do good work. However, they would be good people who do good work regardless of whether or not they have a religious platform.

Now you must not misunderstand me either I am not an atheist. I'm agnostic and fully acknowledge that their could be a mechanism/creative force responsible for the existence of everything in the Universe. I, like everyone else, do not know if there is an afterlife - it would be nice if there was. I just assume that this is it and we are lucky enough to have one-shot as human beings.

However, it is extremely unlikely, well-beyond the bounds of practical reality, that there is an all-powerful, omnipresent being who coincidentally happens to resemble our image, who arbitrarily goes around killing people on a whim, whose megalomanical personality demands that people spend time worshipping him. Or his son variant who believed women are dogs, who advocated that people disown their family, that people should mutilate their limbs, who preached that people should 'turn the cheek' yet hypocritically lost the rag and went mental in a church. There is not a single religion that does not have some sort of deep-rooted hatred for women.

People do not need religion. People do not need religion to believe in a non-theistic god and people do not need religion to have spirituality. Spirituality is not the same as religion.

John in CR said:
THE PROBLEM WITH THE SYSTEM
Economic conservatism has been bound to social conservatism and vise versa, social liberalism has been owned by those who promote economic/political liberalism. Political/economic liberalism leads to the less for the poor and middle class, and those who think economic conservatism isn't better is simply wrong. The common enemy of all is BIG, which goes for big government and big business. They get together and make their own rules or allow exceptions to long standing good rules. That is what has lead to the extreme concentrations of wealth and power that are the detriment to all. Have you noticed the increase in the price of food in the last 10 years? Production is more efficient than ever, and there's no shortage so the upward price isn't driven by demand, and inflation has been non-existent, so it's just been a market manipulation. Look at the '08 crash where the general public lost trillions, but the market was quickly back past where it was before,....a huge concentration a wealth in one fell swoop, all at the hands of BIG.

In the meantime, they just play us against each other like we're each other's enemy. eg So what if I believe life begins at conception. Those of us who do don't generally force our views on others. There are extremists on both sides of all the issues, but they're a tiny minority, yet the manipulators use them to pit regular people against each other. Tea partiers aren't much different from the Occupy people (at least before it was take over by those with the agenda). Their common enemy is BIG, yet the manipulators put them on opposite sides. Apparently things have to get a lot worse before they unite and force real change.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that tax and spend doesn't work, and is accelerating into a train wreck. The only reason it's survived this long (yes out of control spending by both sides), is that oil is denominated in dollars, and because the US has been the largest economy by far the, dollar is the currency of world business.
.

As for the comments on economics, I don't have proof one way or another what system is best suited. There is not one single person who fully understands how economics work and if they say so they are liars. In the future, when we have supercomputers capable of multi-yottaflop performance or have invented quantum computing then it might be possible to develop proper working models rather than the myth-making that is currently going on with economic theorists.

What I do know is this we tried the laissez-faire deregulated model - it lead us to where we are now - on the brink of a global depression. It doesn't work and it doesn't work in nearly exactly the same way that communism doesn't work. All people are not equal, all people are not good and when given the opportunity corruption/incompetence will manifest itself destabilising the entire operation.

The notion that it is only poorly defined big businesses that are responsible for our problems is a fallacy. It doesn't matter if it is caused by one big organisation or a multitude of smaller organisations unchecked corruption/incompetence will manifest itself in both types of structures. You only have to look at Greece to see that this is true.

You need watchdogs, you need regulation and you need a system that regulates the regulators.

I'm not sure that food prices have risen that dramatically, certainly not in Ireland at any rate. Your point about corruption in the food sector would be solved by proper regulation, if that corruption exists. I would look at the fact that the price of petrol has risen dramatically in the last decade and note the correlation in the cost of food production first before accepting that something fishy is going on.

If it is the increase in oil costs that is causing the increase in food prices the only way to solve that is to reduce the demand for oil consumption.

Edited: For typos, grammatical errors, added section on computer modelling and corrected missing words.
 
The tea party just needs to go away. They can't win nationally.
 
I knew Obama was going to win. People who really thought it was close didn't do enough research on the electoral college standings. The popular vote is almost always pretty close, but with the states it was an uphill climb for anyone running against the Machine.

I will say this, however: The Republicans are going to have to adapt, and that includes their supporters. If they think spending the next four years bitching and moaning about Obama is going to be effective for them, they'll just end up screwed again.

Now, if on the rare chance they start to actually be nice to others, quit insulting everyone, and preach a positive message then they might actually have a chance again.

But I suspect we'll get the same mean-spirited, angry Rush Limbaugh type of behavior we've seen these past few years.


Anger is all they know.
 
MikeFairbanks said:
Now, if on the rare chance they start to actually be nice to others, quit insulting everyone, and preach a positive message then they might actually have a chance again.
They simply have to lie to more of the right groups next time.
 
Media fight on the right over GOP
By DYLAN BYERS | 11/11/12 7:12 AM EST

Rush Limbaugh couldn’t have been more right.

Months before the election, the conservative radio host made a prediction: “If Obama wins, the Republican Party is going to try to maneuver things so conservatives get blamed.”

And that’s exactly what’s happening.

On the night of Nov. 6, shortly after President Barack Obama won reelection, Steve Schmidt went on NBC News and called on GOP leaders to “stand up” against the extreme elements in the party that the Republican strategist believes are leading it down the wrong path, even singling out Limbaugh by name. Days later on MSNBC, Joe Scarborough criticized Republicans for taking cues from unnamed pundits “who make tens of millions of dollars engaging in niche marketing” that the host complained provides a misleading picture of the nation’s electorate. Columnist David Frum last week slammed the “conservative entertainment complex” that had “fleeced, exploited and lied to” Republicans, ensuing doom on Election Day.

“These people have made politics a theater for identity politics for a segment of America, rather than a way to solve collective problems,” Frum told POLITICO, referring to conservative media commentators. “What is happening now, and it’s disturbing, is that this complex has sold the idea that conservatives are the real majority in America. That claim has been exposed as false. But they are turning on the country and leading their viewers toward alienation and rejection.”

These were the opening salvos in a larger and escalating civil war playing out now between moderate and far-right-wing pundits. After a disastrous performance in the 2012 elections, the Republican party has come face-to-face with the new demographic reality: “The white establishment is now the minority,” as Fox News host Bill O’Reilly said on election night. Republican support among old, white men can no longer offset their lack of support among women, the young, African-Americans, Asians and the fast-growing Hispanic populations — all key groups in Obama’s victory, some observers say.

But which path to take for the GOP toward broader appeal — doubling down on a core economic and family values conservative message that transcends identity politics or polishing the party’s image by recruiting more women and minority candidates and adopting more moderate positions, particularly on immigration reform — has exposed a sharp rift in the conservative media.

As moderates see it, the “conservative entertainment complex” of talk radio, Fox News, and right-wing blogs has an outsized and potentially fatal influence over the party, alienating Latinos with crass solutions to illegal immigration (“self-deportation”) and insulting women with disrespectful remarks about abortion and birth control.

“If you look at the Republican Party over the last couple of years, it is a tail-wag-the-dog story with the power and the influence of the conservative entertainment complex over elected leadership,” Schmidt, the senior campaign strategist on Sen. John McCain’s 2008 presidential campaign, told POLITICO. “Ronald Reagan would have been appalled by this uncivil tone. Conservatism with a smile has appeal. Conservatism with a snarl is a voter repellent.”

Far from accepting this premise, the far right is retrenching.

The principles of conservatism are as strong as ever, they say, it’s just that an out-of-touch Massachusetts moderate like Mitt Romney didn’t know how to sell it. As a result, misinformed “entitlement mentality” voters looking for government handouts turned out for Obama. Conservatives certainly need to make a stronger case, they argue, but the last thing they should do is abandon their basic beliefs and “pander” to minority groups to win elections.

“Contrary to what the usual suspects on the Left and mushy middle are saying, Romney’s loss is not an indictment of conservatism,” Laura Ingraham, the conservative talk radio host and Fox News guest host, wrote on her blog.

“Conservative talk radio continues to thrive, moderate Republican candidates continue to lose,” Ingraham later told POLITICO. “Blaming talk radio for the problems in the GOP elite is hilarious and typical of people who want to continue to get paid to give bad advice to campaigns.”

The very public argument under way — after all, the players have media platforms that give them a megaphone for their views — has significant implications for the future of the GOP. The right has a deep, diverse, and highly influential bench of opinion makers, and its pundits are moving to expand their influence in a sphere suffering from a lack of political leadership from its elected officials and organizational figures.

“There are no Republican party leaders,” John Podhoretz, the conservative New York Post columnist and editor of Commentary magazine, told POLITICO. “Leaders are self-appointed now.”

As long as figures like Limbaugh command large audiences and media attention, they can wield more power from their studios than many lawmakers can from Capitol Hill — which is part of the reason why so few Republicans spoke out against the radio show host when he called Georgetown Law student Sandra Fluke “a slut.” But it’s these and other controversial remarks — as when Limbaugh associates “appealing to Latinos” with “illegal immigration,” or “appealing to women” with “abortion and birth control” — that have GOP media moderates calling for a different approach.

“For too many swing voters, conservatism has come to mean crazy statements, intolerence and loony candidates — and too often, the elected leadership is afraid of a talk radio industry where the hosts define who is and is not a conservative,” said Schmidt. “When people in politics had real connections with voters … 15 minutes of Rush Limbaugh — a little porn never hurt anybody,” Frum said. “But when he becomes the king-maker of the party, then you have a problem.”

Indeed, after election night, it was conservative pundits, not lawmakers and party powerbrokers, who led the charge this week for a more tolerant immigration policy. Charles Krauthammer, the syndicated columnist and Fox News contributor, said Wednesday that “Republicans can change their position, be a lot more open to actual amnesty with enforcement — amnesty, everything short of citizenship — and make a bold change in their policy.” In a surprise move that drew widespread notice among conservatives, Fox News host Sean Hannity went a step further the next day, telling his wide audience of radio listeners that his views on immigration have “evolved” and he now supports a “pathway to citizenship.”



But if demographics are forcing the right’s hand on what Krauthammer calls “the Latino problem,” he and others — Hannity, Limbaugh, and Ingraham included — remain staunchly opposed to the suggestion that demographic changes and Republican losses in 2012 require those on the right to slide toward the middle.

“[Republicans] lose and immediately the chorus begins,”Krauthammer wrote in a column on Thursday. “Republicans must change or die. A rump party of white America, it must adapt to evolving demographics or forever be the minority. The only part of this that is even partially true regards Hispanics.”

“The usual suspects are out, and they’re saying, ‘Rush, we gotta reach out now to the Hispanics and reach out to the minorities, blacks,’”

Limbaugh said on his radio program last week. “Everybody says that we need to reach out to minorities, but we have plenty of highly achieved minorities in our party, and they are in prominent positions, and they all have a common story.”

Romney’s failure, Limbaugh argued, wasn’t because of the far right. It was because of this: Obama “successfully painted Romney’s policies as caring primarily about the rich … successfully convinced roughly half the country that his policies will favor the middle class,” the radio show host said.

Ingraham’s staff made a similar argument on her blog. “Are the defeats the fault of the GOP and its candidates, and do they now need to pander to minorities and update their platform to make it more appealing?” they wrote. “What exactly is wrong with conservative principles? Anything? No. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. We don’t need to change to appeal to voters. We need voters and their mindsets to change.”

Behind the right’s retrenchment is a belief that they shouldn’t “pander” to those demographic groups that voted heavily for Obama simply because, some of those on the right claim, many of the president’s supporters were drawn by the promise of continued government handouts.

“The voters, many of them, feel that the economic system is stacked against them and they want stuff,” O’Reilly said on election night. “You are going to see a tremendous Hispanic vote for President Obama. Overwhelming black vote for President Obama. And women will probably break President Obama’s way. People feel that they are entitled to things and which candidate, between the two, is going to give them things?
(Limbaugh, O’Reilly, Krauthammer and Hannity could not be reached for comment.)

“Until the entitlement mentality is destroyed, the Democratic Party of Redistribution will always win,” Ingraham’s staff wrote on her blog. “If voters put the good of the country ahead of their personal wants, they will see everyone benefiting, themselves included. Let’s implement some trickle-down patriotism before it’s too late.”

Frum, Schmidt, and other Republican moderates see this rhetoric as poisonous and, more importantly, false.

“The federal government spends seven times as much money on people over 65 as it does on people under 19. The Republican base are the people who get the most from the federal government,” Frum said. “You can’t think if you reject facts. You can’t refer to minority groups as mendicants or moochers simply because they want the economy to function. We need to insult fewer people.”

“When Gen. Petraeus took over Iraq, he said his goal was to wake up every morning with fewer enemies and more friends. Our goal should be to wake up with more friends and less opponents,” Schmidt said. “Political parties should not be in the business of picking fights with the gay community, we should not be picking fights with Latinos. We should talk about how the free enterprise system works. We should make a value statement about conservatism, that our path is the best way to advance your family and community.”

Podhoretz described “a middle path between Steve Schmidt and Rush Limbaugh.”

“If you look at all the data, close to half of the U.S. considers itself pro-life. It’s nonsensical to argue that positions that stand at a parity with their opposing views should be eliminated from the national stage — it’s a perverse idea, and it won’t happen,” he argued. “That’s not the way things are. This is a representative system, and those voices will be heard, not silenced.”

But, he added, “The ultimate truth about this election is that if you do things that convince voters you are deliberately insulting them, then they are not going to like you. Middle ground means holding firm to basic principles while finding a way to talk about them that will not only appeal to more people but will actually convey the justice, moral power, strength and elevating quality of these ideas.”

Former Gov. Mike Huckabee, who now hosts his own radio show, echoed the sentiment.

“The real conservative policy is attractive to minorities,” Huckabee told POLITICO. “Our problem isn’t the product, it’s the box we put it in. Our message should not be ‘tailored’ to a specific demographic group, but presented to empower the individual American, whatever the color, gender or ethnicity.”


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83679.html?hp=t1
 
TylerDurden said:
They simply have to lie to more of the right groups next time.

Best comment all thread. An over the top amount of lies and misrepresentations, or not enough lies and misrepresentations, depending on your POV, decided the election.

It's sad to see how regular people on both sides have been manipulated against each other. We the People are not the problem. The idiots in DC are for the most part different shades of the same thing. At the core, though they've both been hijacked, the Tea Party and the Occupy group are the same just with different demographics of participants. I'd say that the Occupy people defined the real enemy a bit better, but still misses the mark other than to quantify it. The enemy is BIG, whether it's big government, big business, big unions, or the big military industrial complex.
 
John nailed it. The failure of the republicans to separate their conservative economic platform from a conservative social platform destroyed them. I think a much larger (and likely majority) could get on board with the republican economic plan. But few can tolerate the pallette of obsolete social ideas based on old tradition and religion.

Religion is always an issue in elections for the same reason it's always been an issue in how governing bodies have shaped our world history. On one hand, religion embodies a very private relationship with one's own beliefs and satisfies a human need to belong to something bigger than one's own existance. That's the good part of religion. You can call that whatever you like, but the concept of identifying with a greater entity is universal. Many find that in religion or spirituality. Some find it with social groups. I guarentee you some of the guys on here with several thousand posts identify with the EV and eBike movement as a visceral sense of belonging to something greater than self.

On the other hand, there is the exploitation of this need which has historically been used to wield power and manipulate people's behavior. Alot of this manipulation was done with the purpose of securing the survival of a society. And as such, much of it has been good willed. Look at many of the outdated soceital rules in religious books like the Bible or the Quran. At one point, most of these rules addressed critical needs of the society at the time.

But, add a bit of greed, of you have one of the most evil institutions possible: a few manipulating the masses for profit. And that's the religion so many people hate. And with things like the financial melt down, wars for oil, etc....it's a concept that a majority of people identify with.
 
In addition to a modest minority outreach you can also look for the gop to to intensify their disenfranchising efforts of people that "don't look like" republicans.
 
Socially liberal conservatives?
Oh yeah, those are called libertarians.

[youtube]e6Kc0UOHABc[/youtube]

[youtube]-4TJBTddP3A[/youtube]

[youtube]g2axLFDjTgo[/youtube]

But nobody votes for them.

Republicans have been religious dominionists ever since i can remember, and i'm 30. Has it always been that way?
 
Those are the folks who'd let people die in the streets for the crime of being poor, right? The ones whose moral prophet worshiped a serial killer as a Nietzschian superman? The ones who, when it comes down to it, believe that property has absolute rights which accrue to its owners, rather than the other way around? The ones who think altruism is evil?

I have no idea why we wouldn't like them. Peeps gotta do what they gotta do-- even if that's pay employees less than minimum wage, ignore the needy and disabled, ruin their land for a time period far longer than their natural lives, and/or butcher little girls. What right does the state (i.e. other people) have to stand in the way of all that?
 
Chalo said:
Those are the folks who'd let people die in the streets for the crime of being poor, right? The ones whose moral prophet worshiped a serial killer as a Nietzschian superman? The ones who, when it comes down to it, believe that property has absolute rights which accrue to its owners, rather than the other way around? The ones who think altruism is evil?

I have no idea why we wouldn't like them. Peeps gotta do what they gotta do-- even if that's pay employees less than minimum wage, ignore the needy and disabled, ruin their land for a time period far longer than their natural lives, and/or butcher little girls. What right does the state (i.e. other people) have to stand in the way of all that?

I see you understand libertarians very well! you must have read about them on thinkprogress or alternet, so you must know the truth, since truth has a liberal bias!

It's true. We HATE roads, policemen, education, puppy dogs, and ice cream and LOVE corporate wage slavery, misery, and death. We are exactly the evil sunday morning diabolical cartoon villains you thought we are. It's possible that we are not even mammals.

If you don't mind, i need to sacrifice some little girls to the Koch brothers or they're going to send me back to Somalia.
 
Secession petitions flood White House website
By BYRON TAU | 11/12/12 10:55 AM EST
POLITICO

President Obama's reelection last week has prompted a slew of requests to secede from the United States.


Using the Obama administration's own We the People website, nearly two dozen petitions have sprung up asking the Obama administration for permission to withdraw from the Union.

The two most popular petitions, Texas and Louisiana, have both drawn more than 10,000 signatures each as of Monday morning. The Texas petition needs only 7,000 more signatures to trigger an official White House response.

None of the petitions explicitly cite Obama's reelection as a reason for independence, but all were created after last week's elections.

"The citizens of the US suffer from blatant abuses of their rights such as the [National Defense Authorization Act], the [Transportation Security Administration], etc," the Texas petition charges. "Given that the state of Texas maintains a balanced budget and is the 15th largest economy in the world, it is practically feasible for Texas to withdraw from the union, and to do so would protect it's citizens' standard of living and re-secure their rights and liberties in accordance with the original ideas and beliefs of our founding fathers which are no longer being reflected by the federal government."

Others are more vague for in their reasons for wanting to leave the country.

"just like in 1860 the south secede from the union. 2012 the state of georgia would like to withdraw from the USA," one of the Georgia petitions states.

Most of the petitions simply quote the Declaration of Independence in their request to depart the country.

As of Monday, residents of Kentucky, Oregon, Montana, North Dakota, Mississippi, North Carolina, Florida, Georgia, New York, New Jersey, Colorado, Arkansas, South Carolina, and Missouri have all expressed interest in dissolving their relationship with the United States.



http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/11/secession-petitions-flood-white-house-website-149291.html
 
deronmoped said:
I can't understand why people voted for four more years of Bush.
Apparently, according to Obama, the first four years were Bush's fault. And I'm betting, the next four years will be Bush's fault too. :D
They didn't. The election was close but was stolen in Cuyahoga County Ohio. In fact two ranking poll workers were convected of rigging the recount to match the original count. A little known fact. Oddly enough they were also both African-American. But then-again, so was Kennith Blackwell.

http://rangevoting.org/OhioConvictns.html

Snip.....

Ohio Election Workers Convicted of
Rigging '04 Presidential Recount
M.R. KROPKO / AP / Boston Herald 24jan2007

CLEVELAND - Two election workers were convicted Wednesday of rigging a recount of the 2004 presidential election to avoid a more thorough review in Ohio’s most populous county.

Jacqueline Maiden, elections coordinator of the Cuyahoga County Elections Board, and ballot manager Kathleen Dreamer each were convicted of a felony count of negligent misconduct of an elections employee. They also were convicted of one misdemeanor count each of failure of elections employees to perform their duty.

Prosecutors accused Maiden and Dreamer of secretly reviewing preselected ballots before a public recount on Dec. 16, 2004. They worked behind closed doors for three days to pick ballots they knew would not cause discrepancies when checked by hand, prosecutors said.

Defense attorney Roger Synenberg has said the workers were following procedures as they understood them.

Ohio gave President Bush the electoral votes he needed to defeat Democratic Sen. John Kerry in the close election and hold on to the White House in 2004....snip
 
John in CR said:
It's sad to see how regular people on both sides have been manipulated against each other.
Divide and conquer. It is a very old strategy. It works very well.
 
TylerDurden said:
"Given that the state of Texas maintains a balanced budget and is the 15th largest economy in the world,....
Lets see. If Texas secedes what happens. Federal jobs gone. Us military gone. Border petrol gone.Good luck with the Mexican drug cartels. Looks like a border fence on your north to keep the desperate Texans out of the USA. MLB gone. NFL gone. NBA gone. Not part of the USA? Looks like no USA TV ratings to keep you in advertising money for your major league sports. Can you say "The Los Angeles Cowboys"? How many times can the Long Horns play other Texas teams? No Federal Emergency relief after a natural disaster. No NASA. No FBI, CIA, No post office. No nuclear waste disposal from the 4 nuke plants. No student aid grants. Good luck with the Mexican drug cartels, again. No more chants of USA. No gold metals at the Olympics. No more Texas Republican senators in the US senate. No red state Texas delegates to mess with the presidential election in the USA. No more Republican presidents in the USA.

Good luck with it. :D
 
e-beach said:
TylerDurden said:
"Given that the state of Texas maintains a balanced budget and is the 15th largest economy in the world,....
Lets see. If Texas secedes what happens. Federal jobs gone. Us military gone. Border petrol gone.Good luck with the Mexican drug cartels. Looks like a border fence on your north to keep the desperate Texans out of the USA. MLB gone. NFL gone. NBA gone. Not part of the USA? Looks like no USA TV ratings to keep you in advertising money for your major league sports. Can you say "The Los Angeles Cowboys"? How many times can the Long Horns play other Texas teams? No Federal Emergency relief after a natural disaster. No NASA. No FBI, CIA, No post office. No nuclear waste disposal from the 4 nuke plants. No student aid grants. Good luck with the Mexican drug cartels, again. No more chants of USA. No gold metals at the Olympics. No more Texas Republican senators in the US senate. No red state Texas delegates to mess with the presidential election in the USA. No more Republican presidents in the USA.

Good luck with it. :D

Yes, but suddenly your citizens, as they're not paying federal tax, get a 10-35% boost in income.
Texas can suck up some of that money. They can increase their state taxes a lot and provide similar services.

They can also make their 'country' more desirable by not having the same regulatory environment as the federal govt. dictates ( this can be a bad thing or a good thing )

They also don't have federal union wages to support. They can implement their own replacements for federal govt. at a lower cost.

They also have more flexibility in how they run their 'country'.

It could be a win for all parties involved. But the federal govt. will not let these tax slaves go so quickly. Remember what America had to do to be free of Britain? :)
 
Grey beard said:
You seem to have forgotten to include the part about it not effecting the election.

Oh yea it did. Not only was part of effecting the election, but Ohio delivered the presidency to little geroge w that year. Voter suppression in Cuyahoga county is what put w over the top that year in Ohio.

Snip.....In the summer of 2003, Representative Peter King (R., N.Y.) was interviewed by Alexandra Pelosi at a barbecue on the White House lawn for her HBO documentary Diary of a Political Tourist. “It’s already over. The election’s over. We won,” King exulted more than a year before the election. When asked by Pelosi—the daughter of House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi—how he knew that Bush would win, he answered, “It’s all over but the counting. And we’ll take care of the counting.”....snip

http://harpers.org/archive/2005/08/none-dare-call-it-stolen/6/
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/pictures/was-the-2004-election-stolen-20060601
http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0320-23.htm
 
neptronix said:
Yes, but suddenly your citizens, as they're not paying federal tax, get a 10-35% boost in income.
Unless you work for the US federal government.

They can also make their 'country' more desirable by not having the same regulatory environment as the federal govt. dictates ( this can be a bad thing or a good thing )]
Hello oil slicks and choking air pollution.
They also don't have federal union wages to support. They can implement their own replacements for federal govt. at a lower cost.
Hello poverty.
They also have more flexibility in how they run their 'country'.
Hello creationism.

It could be a win for all parties involved. But the federal govt. will not let these tax slaves go so quickly. Remember what America had to do to be free of Britain? :)

What America had to do to get free of Britain was have several generations born on American soil with no emotional connection to Britain. Britain was just some very far away place. :D
 
How Rick Perry Aggressively Pursued Federal Aid He Now Decries
By Michael Scherer Aug. 17, 2011
TIME

In his presidential-campaign kickoff on Aug. 13, Texas Governor Rick Perry burnished his conservative credentials by attacking the idea of deficit stimulus spending. “Washington’s insatiable desire to spend our children’s inheritance on failed stimulus plans and other misguided economic theories have given us record debt and left us with far too many unemployed,” he said.

But ’twas not always so for Perry. Back in 2003, lobbyists under Perry’s direction went to Capitol Hill to lobby the Republican Congress for more than a billion dollars in federal deficit spending on “stimulus.” And they won. A 2005 report by the Texas Office of State-Federal Relations boasted of “$1.2 billion in temporary state fiscal relief to Texas” through Medicaid that Perry’s lobbying operation had secured.

And that was just the beginning. The same report details millions more that flowed from the U.S. Treasury to Texas as a result of the official state lobbying campaign, which was overseen by Perry, a Republican lieutenant governor and the speaker of the state house between 2003 and 2005. In several cases, the Texas lobbying campaign won funds for programs that Perry now says he opposes as fiscally irresponsible intrusions on state responsibilities.

For the 2003 Medicare prescription drug bill, for instance, Texas lobbyists successfully pushed to include an additional $47.5 million a year for four years, to help reimburse the cost of health care for undocumented immigrants. In 2005, the lobbyists fought to restore $200 million in funding for No Child Left Behind that had been cut by the Senate. About $14.5 million of that money was directed to Texas for “innovation programs.” The Texas lobbying operation also supported several earmarks, including direct funds for maintenance dredging in the Matagorda shipping channel and money to study the feasibility of a desalination project in Freeport.

Mark Miner, a spokesman for the Perry campaign, said Perry’s record of fiscal responsibility is clear from his state record. “Americans send billions of dollars to Washington, D.C., every year and continue to be frustrated by a federal government that is irresponsible with taxpayer dollars,” he said. “The governor has signed six balanced budgets, in a large and diverse state. You have to prioritize and make tough decisions, and that is not what we are seeing from the Obama Administration.”

Miner added that much of the federal money that flowed to Texas under Perry served a federal purpose. “Many of the issues Texas and other states have to deal with, like border security, are the result of a federal government that has failed in its responsibility,” he said.

Among other efforts, the Perry lobbying operation was involved in one of the most storied legislative maneuvers of the past decade. In 2005, at the tail end of the conference-committee process on a massive federal $14 billion energy bill, members of Congress from Texas inserted a $1.5 billion program under the subtitle “Ultra-Deepwater and Unconventional Natural Gas and Other Petroleum Resources.” Much of the money in this provision was directed to an unnamed consortium, which seemed to describe a private-sector partnership operating in the offices of the Texas Energy Center, a Perry-funded project in Sugar Land, Texas.

At the time, Democrats were outraged by the last-minute addition to the bill. “The subtitle appears to steer the administration of 75% of the $1.5 billion fund to a private consortium located in the district of Majority Leader Tom DeLay,” wrote California Representative Henry Waxman, after the law passed. That consortium later won the account.

Perry had played a key role in setting up the Texas Energy Center in 2003 by giving a $3.6 million grant from an “enterprise fund” he controlled. “This commitment of enterprise-fund money not only will lead to the creation of new, high-paying jobs in Texas but also will help expand Texas’ reputation as a leader in the development of new and cleaner energy technologies and resources,” Perry said at the time.

Shortly afterward, the Texas Energy Center hired Drew Maloney, a former DeLay chief of staff, to lobby the U.S. Congress on its behalf. Maloney was also working as a lobbyist for the Texas Office of State-Federal Relations, which Perry oversaw. The office reported in 2005 that it had lobbied Congress for appropriations on behalf of the Texas Energy Center.

Today Perry speaks of Washington as an alien land, inhabited by irresponsible politicians. In his most recent book, Fed Up!, Perry criticizes President George W. Bush for giving free rein to “spendthrift congressional Republicans.” “Ultimately, the record is fairly unforgiving for Republicans — particularly in Congress — who have been in power in Washington over the last decade or so,” Perry wrote in 2010. “They haven’t just spent our money wildly — they have blatantly ignored our core founding principles.”

This is the same message that Perry has brought to the campaign trail since the announcement of his bid for the presidency. It is not the same message that lobbyists whom Perry oversaw brought to Congress just a few years ago.


http://swampland.time.com/2011/08/17/rick-perry-aggressively-pursued-federal-aid-he-now-decries/#ixzz2C71d2fsL


Maybe these are the whores, pimp and parasites Ted Nugent was referring to...
 
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