Electric Hub Motors ... ???

[vja4Him]

I'm really a dummy when it comes to anything mechanical or electrical! If I understand correctly, if I buy the electric hub motor for my Electra Townie, I will no longer have the gears that came with my bicycle available for pedaling?

I need to keep the gears that came with my bicycle, so I can still ride my bicycle with no motor as often as possible. I need the exercise and enjoy riding, but also need to commute to various job assignments where there is no bus service, and too far for me to pedal (10-15 miles each way).

I want to get something that will last many years, and allow me to attain speeds of at least a good solid 35mph (45mph would be better, so I could ride on the country roads where the speed limit is between 45-55mph), with my weight, plus groceries (will not be riding fast with groceries!!!, only around 10mph then!).

When I go to work, my weight is around 210, plus my large backpack, which normally weighs around 15 pounds. Groceries will add another 15 pounds, sometimes more ....

So, I need a good quality motor that will easily carry over 250 pounds, reliable, effecient, long lasting ..... I've been checking around on different websites, but am still a bit overwhelmed ... !!! Help please ... !!!! Thanks!
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[deardancer3]

The first part of this ebike scenerio is having expectations that fit your budget, skills and needs.
And ebike capable of safe, reliable continuous 35mph is expensive and challenging to build from a bicycle.

So one would ask what your budget would be, what your skills are, and can you compromise some on the speed.

A 25 mph, 30 mile range ebike for under $2k would be not too hard. How does that fit your criteria?

d

 

[vja4Him]

The first part of this ebike scenerio is having expectations that fit your budget, skills and needs.
And ebike capable of safe, reliable continuous 35mph is expensive and challenging to build from a bicycle.

So one would ask what your budget would be, what your skills are, and can you compromise some on the speed.

A 25 mph, 30 mile range ebike for under $2k would be not too hard. How does that fit your criteria?

d

I'm starting to have second thoughts about installing an electric motor .... I found a 2-cycle gas motor for only $140.00. Maybe I should just get that one for now .... If I get enough on my tax return, I could probably invest $1,000.00, possibly a little more for an electric motor, but I'm wondering if it's really worth it after all .... With batteries so expensive ...

I'm wondering .. How can people get away with selling these motor kits for bicycles that take the bikes over the legal limit? If the legal limit is only 20 mph, then why are so many kits being sold that go faster than 20 mph ... ???

 

[billvon]

>I'm starting to have second thoughts about installing an electric motor .... I found a 2-cycle gas motor for only $140.00.

That's an option. I hate the smell, noise, dirt, heat and sprayed oil of 2 cycle engines.

>How can people get away with selling these motor kits for bicycles that take the bikes over the legal limit? If the legal limit is only 20 mph, then why are so many kits
>being sold that go faster than 20 mph ... ???

AFAIK you cannot sell an electric bicycle that goes faster than 20mph (without pedaling) in some states. However, you can buy whatever parts you want (including kits of parts.) Then the responsibility of not exceeding 20mph falls on you.

>if I buy the electric hub motor for my Electra Townie, I will no longer have the gears that came with my bicycle available for pedaling?

No. You will still have all the gears available.

>I want to get something that will last many years, and allow me to attain speeds of at least a good solid 35mph
>(45mph would be better)

You really don't, not on a Townie. Unless you're on a track, going 45mph is pretty painful (and hard on the bike.) At those speeds you need a decent suspension and better brakes.

>So, I need a good quality motor that will easily carry over 250 pounds, reliable, effecient, long lasting ..... I've been checking around on different websites, but am still a bit overwhelmed ... !!! Help
>please ... !

Motor: Crystalyte 5000 series (for speed) or 400 series (for price)
Controller: Crystalyte 72 volt, either 20 amp or 35 amp
Batteries: 36v 8ah nicad

Price: around $650

(Try http://www.ebikes.ca for the above)

 

[vja4Him]

>

Motor: Crystalyte 5000 series (for speed) or 400 series (for price)
Controller: Crystalyte 72 volt, either 20 amp or 35 amp
Batteries: 36v 8ah nicad

Price: around $650

(Try http://www.ebikes.ca for the above)

Hey now, that looks like something that I could handle ... !!! Would I be able to use stronger batteries with that motor? I've read somewhere that lithium batteries last much longer (more charges), and will provide more acceleration, and more hours of use before needing to be charged.

 

[billvon]

>Would I be able to use stronger batteries with that motor?

Of course. You can get any battery you can afford. I've used the Batteryspace 10ah 36 volt lipo's with good results, but they cost $500 a piece. If you want a firebreathing machine, you can use basically the same motor controller/motor and go with two 10ah 36 volt lipo's in series to give you 72 volts. Would be seriously fast - but would also be $1000 for batteries alone.

 

[64ragtop]

>Would I be able to use stronger batteries with that motor?

Of course. You can get any battery you can afford. I've used the Batteryspace 10ah 36 volt lipo's with good results, but they cost $500 a piece. If you want a firebreathing machine, you can use basically the same motor controller/motor and go with two 10ah 36 volt lipo's in series to give you 72 volts. Would be seriously fast - but would also be $1000 for batteries alone.

AAaannd, you're back up to 45 MPH (Illegal in most places) on a bicycle frame and bicycle BRAKES! I'm thinking you really need an electric (Vespa style) scooter, but check carefully for good makers and sellers!

ATB

BC

 

[vja4Him]

>Would I be able to use stronger batteries with that motor?

Of course. You can get any battery you can afford. I've used the Batteryspace 10ah 36 volt lipo's with good results, but they cost $500 a piece. If you want a firebreathing machine, you can use basically the same motor controller/motor and go with two 10ah 36 volt lipo's in series to give you 72 volts. Would be seriously fast - but would also be $1000 for batteries alone.

I've seen the legal issues come up before ... What would be the possible legal problems with having two batteries wired together for 72 volts? I could really use/need the extra distance, so I could commute to work a little farther. Some job assignments are 12-15 miles each way ...

 

[vja4Him]

>Would I be able to use stronger batteries with that motor?

Of course. You can get any battery you can afford. I've used the Batteryspace 10ah 36 volt lipo's with good results, but they cost $500 a piece. If you want a firebreathing machine, you can use basically the same motor controller/motor and go with two 10ah 36 volt lipo's in series to give you 72 volts. Would be seriously fast - but would also be $1000 for batteries alone.

AAaannd, you're back up to 45 MPH (Illegal in most places) on a bicycle frame and bicycle BRAKES! I'm thinking you really need an electric (Vespa style) scooter, but check carefully for good makers and sellers!

ATB

BC

I don't want a scooter ... I need to ride my bicycle for exercise. And besides, I really do enjoy riding my bicycle(s). In fact, I like to go out and ride early in the morning when the temperature is cooler (sometimes I go out around 4:00 a.m.), and the air fresher. I'm going for a night ride here pretty soon ...

If you have a bicycle equipped with enough power to actually attain high speeds (over 30 mph), BUT ... if you don't ride that fast, say if you keep your speed under 30 mph, would there be any legal problems?

 

[64ragtop]

I don't want a scooter ... I need to ride my bicycle for exercise. And besides, I really do enjoy riding my bicycle(s). In fact, I like to go out and ride early in the morning when the temperature is cooler (sometimes I go out around 4:00 a.m.), and the air fresher. I'm going for a night ride here pretty soon ...

If you have a bicycle equipped with enough power to actually attain high speeds (over 30 mph), BUT ... if you don't ride that fast, say if you keep your speed under 30 mph, would there be any legal problems?

That shouldn't be a problem, as far as I know. To the best of my knowledge, the cops are not stopping e-bikers and checking their bikes at random for illegal power equipment. Now is ya blast past one at a speed he knows from experience, of trip a radar at something over the limit there could be an equipment issue. The bike I'm building will easily exceed the e-bike limit here in Texas, but I'm getting a CycleAnalyst to work as a speed limiter. I'm a big, heavy guy, and if my bike had to top out at 30 mph it wouldn't be worth riding. But if the bike accelerates like it's going for 50, and the CycleAnalyst cuts the controller back as it approaches the limit and won't let it go over then I'll never attract the attention of the long arm of the law.

Most cars can exceed most posted limits, but as long as the driver takes steps to not exceed the limit, law enforcement doesn't care if the car could exceed the limit, only that it did not while being observed.

That's my take on it! I'm not a lawyer, and the rules might be different wherever you are. Frankly, I think if ya ride safely and just don't attract attention, you'll be fine.

ATB

BC

 

[billvon]

If you have a bicycle equipped with enough power to actually attain high speeds (over 30 mph), BUT ... if you don't ride that fast, say if you keep your speed under 30 mph, would there be any legal problems?

I haven't had any. My 'secret' is that I have an older TF M750X with two modes. One mode limits the bike to 20mph 750 watts, the other allows speeds up to 35-38mph at around 1200 watts. 35mph, however, is too fast for that frame. (brakes/frame/front fork.)

Most of my riding takes place at around 20mph, 25-30mph if I'm in a hurry. Going faster is just too hard on the bike and wastes a lot of power.

You are sounding more and more like you just need a moderately powered 400-series (or equivalent) hub and a decent battery. I have a second bike (trailer actually) that gets me to about 23 mph using a 406 series motor on a 16" wheel with a 10 amp hour ni-mh. Range is about 20-22 miles.

 

[billvon]

AAaannd, you're back up to 45 MPH (Illegal in most places) on a bicycle frame and bicycle BRAKES!

Nowadays, though, you can actually get a better frame/brakes for a downhill MTB than you can get on a Vespa. It has to be designed for that sort of abuse though (which downhill frames are) and the shorter wheelbase limits battery mounting area.

 

[Mr. Danelectric]

What would be the possible legal problems with having two batteries wired together for 72 volts? I could really use/need the extra distance, so I could commute to work a little farther. Some job assignments are 12-15 miles each way ...

Two 36 volt batteries wired (in series) to output 72 volts would not give you "extra distance" really. (Somewhat, if you stay easy on the throttle, but that's really hard to do.) The amp hours stay the same, as the volts doubled.

Volts generally equals speed.

Amp Hours generally equals range.

The same batteries wired (in parallel) to output 36 volts would then double the amp hours while keeping volts the same. Thus giving you more distance without a faster top speed.

If you got your controller with Direct Plug-in CA from ebikes.ca, then you could have 72 volts when you wanted speed, then switch it down to 36 volts (and re-configure the battery wiring) with twice the range, when you wanted to be law abiding and travel longer distances.

Don't get an ICE! LAME! And 2-Cycle engines are the WORST! There are so many reasons. On my hub motor, I am SILENT, STEALTH, like a ninja. You have to try it, seriously. I LOVE the silent factor. People let me bring it in their living rooms. When I used a 2-Cycle, it would have to stay outside, cause it stunk and was greasy and then I'd have to keep an eye out for thieves, and inclement weather. Someone asked me what the price of gas was near me. I seriously couldn't answer them. I had no idea. I never even look at gas stations anymore. Flying past crowded gas stations and keeping my money is so liberating.

Especially if you are worried about the law. Whenever you have an ICE, you will get stopped, and ticketed and messed with constantly, until you give it up. You escape the law of the ICE haters for a while, until inevitably you sell it, because it's not worth the hassle from the law, and you can't ride through neighbors backyards in the middle of the night, or sneak up on alley cats really fast, silently.

Just save and save and know that the more you spend, the happier you'll be. I wouldn't worry about the law. Since you're a relatively big guy, you need more juice than the law allows anyway. You just get the balls-out system, then use the DPCA to put a speed limit of 20 mph, 500 watts, or whatever, then you're in the bounds of your laws, but you can still get up hills carrying passengers and cargo. You have not lived until you've ridden a 40 mph hub motor, man! It's the best thing that's ever happened to me, and I know you'll love it too.

You keep those gears, and you keep pedaling and you'll lose weight and get in shape - only while going a LOT faster, if you want. Often times, I will just cruise at 20 - 25, cause that's where it likes to be, and that's awesome.

I don't have any suspension. Just fat tyres with 40 PSI. You can go 40 mph on known smooth roads no problem, but hitting a pot hole is dangerous and uncomfortable. If you really watch it though, you can go top speed more often than you'd think on a fully rigid, I know I do it a lot. Don't listen to the nay-sayers that say you can't go that fast on a bicycle safely. (Probably not safe for 80% of riders or more - I've been riding motorcycles for 20 years, that's probably why I feel a little differently about the speed. Most bicyclist, who've never ridden a motorcycle, shouldn't really go above 20 - 25 mph (Olympic bicyclist in spandex on a lightweight areo road bike = 25 mph), in my opinion.)

 

[dogman dan]

Most of the mid power range hub motors when run at 48v will go 25 mph even with a heavy rider, and above that you need a crazy big front chainring to keep up with the peadles if you want to keep peadling. Bigger chainrings than 48 tooth are hard to find to fit a cruizer or an mtb, and personally I don't want to go so fast (40mph) on road bike tires. If you go higher power, like the 5304, (phoenix) motors there are some issues with using the duct tape lifepo4 packs. Some are doing it succesfully but they often have made mods to the bms, or have two packs. ( ow, my wallet!)

So a real practical compromise is a good motor, like the 408, or 407, and 48 volts. Mostly you will be going the speed limit on any street, and not attract the cops unless you ride goofy. But on downhills, or if you peadle hard enough, you can do a bit better than 25 mph. With this setup you can go with a Ping 48v-20 ah lifepo4 that will give you amazing range, and the battery may easily outlast several ebikes. If you ride less than 10 miles, good ol sla will work fine, but of course you have to do the rituals to keep em alive. If money is an issue, then other motors of similar size are cheap and a good way to test it out for under $500. The amped bikes, 9 continents , and wilderness energy kits are good budget choices.

Once you try it, you may be suprised at how fast 25 mph really is if you ride for an hour or more. Keeping track of traffic, potholes, glass in the road, etc can be quite a bit to do at 25 mph. Bear in mind, you most likely have never run at that speed for more than 10 minuites at a time. Once on the ebike, you can have your hands full at 25 mph and keeping it up for a full hour of riding is a mental challenge. Under 20 mph, there is more time to react to things, and it is quite easy at normal folks bike speed of 15 mph. In any case, if you start with a mid size motor, and don't like it, you will be able to get much of your money back reselling it, or even better, keeping it as a spare, since things do break, or just get wet and need time to dry out.