Error code (?) in Cycle Analyst

[gopman]

I'm debugging an issue with my bike - which has a Cycle Analyst running 3.2b3, a BaseRunner, and an all-axle motor. I'll post more details after I do some analysis, but there's one thing that I didn't see in the manual:

A couple of times when my motor cut out, I had what I think was a "DR_" on the lower left of the first screen of the Cycle Analyst. I didn't see anything in the manual about that. Anyone know what that might be? The "DR_" was staggered, the D to the upper left, R in the middle, _ to the lower right. It was where the PAS/pedal-power graphic usually is.

Thanks.

 

[amberwolf]

If it's down in the corner of this screen where it normally shows a throttle or brake lever, then it's probably the DownRate being used on your throttle output. That is used when the throttle is being decreased due to some limit being exceeded.


DownRate is in this menu

Cycle Analyst V3 - Grin Products - Product Info

The Cycle Analyst display is our first flagship product released in 2006 and now in its 3rd generation. While the hardware design may be showing its age, it still has capabilities and functionalities that are unmatched by modern ebike systems with their pretty colour screens. This device also...

ebikes.ca

[ ThrO->Down Rate ]
Determines the maximum rate at which the throttle output can ramp downwards. For safety reasons you would generally leave this at a high value so that the system can shut off promptly, but there can be times where a slower disengagement of motor power is preferred. Values of 4 to 8 V/sec are recommended. Ebrakes cut power immediately and are unaffected by this setting.

What specific riding conditions does the motor cut out occur in?

Any other common thing during the cutout?

Do you ever see anything capitalized on the lower left of the diag screen (one left of the main) when the motor cuts out? The letter(s) that are capitalized indicate the limit that is being reached, causing the CA to decrease throttle output.

 

[gopman]

Thanks for the info on Down Rate. Here are the details:

It's an all Grin setup with the CA, Baserunner, All-axle motor, PAS, UP/Down Digital Aux in (to control assist level). It's set up to only provide assist while pedaling with the assist level set by the power selected with the digital aux up/down buttons. No ebrake inputs are being used. No throttle is used.

I've used this setup for a while with no problems. On the last ride, the motor cut out a bunch of times in the middle of riding. I had to use the on/off button to restart the system to get motor power back. Then it would work for a while and cut out again with no warning (or changes to anything).

The good news is I was logging from the CA to an SDCard... So have logs from each of the ride segments.

Here is a link to the log files as well as a set of spreadsheets that I loaded the log files into to check them out.

20240324 - Google Drive

drive.google.com

The files are all from the last ride. I did see that on some of the ride segments, the temperature sensor reading went negative right before the power cut out...

I attached a diagram of my setup (more or less).

Rich

 

[E-HP]

The data is helpful. It could be the controller.
My assumptions for the data are:
PAS signal is converted to the throttle output ThO when the CA is functioning properly. When functioning properly, a ThO signal above 0.99V should result in current to/from the controller (looks like there’s around a 2 interval lag), resulting in assist. In some cases you’ve highlighted, there is a throttle signal present (CA is converting the PAS input to throttle out) but A, controller battery current, remains at zero (no assist). I don’t have the ability to edit/manipulate the spreadsheets, but maybe filter on intervals where the CA is providing a signal, but the controller outputs zero?

 

[gopman]

The data is helpful. It could be the controller.
My assumptions for the data are:
PAS signal is converted to the throttle output ThO when the CA is functioning properly. When functioning properly, a ThO signal above 0.99V should result in current to/from the controller (looks like there’s around a 2 interval lag), resulting in assist. In some cases you’ve highlighted, there is a throttle signal present (CA is converting the PAS input to throttle out) but A, controller battery current, remains at zero (no assist). I don’t have the ability to edit/manipulate the spreadsheets, but maybe filter on intervals where the CA is providing a signal, but the controller outputs zero?

Your assumptions sound correct. I think I highlighted all or most of the problem areas. The negative temps are very interesting, I think. They often correspond with the problem. So - I was hoping someone from Grin might take a look and see if that sounds familiar or if it points to where the issue might be.

 

[E-HP]

I would try to check continuity of the ThO signal to the controller. May be difficult if you’re using a HiGo connector between the CA and Baserunner though. That series of ThO signals around ~3.67v, with 0A from the controller is suspicious.

 

[amberwolf]

If any of the sense inputs to the CA produce readings that are outside the limits programmed into the CA, then that limit will engage, and throttle output from the CA to the controller will reduce or cease.

That is when the DownRamp will engage (you won't see it any other time than when throttle output is being reduced or ceased).

When throttle output ceases or rapidly drops, your controller will stop operating the motor, or lower the motor output, which will be or feel like a cut out.


Which sense inputs to the CA are going outside their limits?

 

[gopman]

If any of the sense inputs to the CA produce readings that are outside the limits programmed into the CA, then that limit will engage, and throttle output from the CA to the controller will reduce or cease.

That is when the DownRamp will engage (you won't see it any other time than when throttle output is being reduced or ceased).

When throttle output ceases or rapidly drops, your controller will stop operating the motor, or lower the motor output, which will be or feel like a cut out.


Which sense inputs to the CA are going outside their limits?

That doesn't appear to be the issue. If you look at the spreadsheets, the CA is providing high ThO voltage to the Baserunner, but the CA isn't reporting any current in the motor. Also, when the motor cuts out, it stays off until I power cycle the system. Also - there is often negative temperature reported by the CA right before the motor stops working, so something else is going on.

 

[DogDipstick]

The good news is I was logging from the CA to an SDCard... So have logs from each of the ride segments.



Rich

Are you using the CycleAnalogger to do that? Or something custom?

Do you output a comma delimited tx. file? Cool.

Yeah your trip works with the Analogger input . Metric or Imperial? Metric, right? thankyou.

Ebike Trip Analyzer for Processing Logged Cycle Analyst and GPS Data

The Trip Analyzer lets you view trip log data from the Cycle Analyst and Analogger in order to see your energy usage and other stats from an ebike trip. With the GPS Analogger, you can see your exact route location on the map and all your electrical details at any given point on the way. It is...

ebikes.ca

 

[kuromaku]

I'm debugging an issue with my bike - which has a Cycle Analyst running 3.2b3, a BaseRunner, and an all-axle motor. I'll post more details after I do some analysis, but there's one thing that I didn't see in the manual:

A couple of times when my motor cut out, I had what I think was a "DR_" on the lower left of the first screen of the Cycle Analyst. I didn't see anything in the manual about that. Anyone know what that might be? The "DR_" was staggered, the D to the upper left, R in the middle, _ to the lower right. It was where the PAS/pedal-power graphic usually is.

Thanks.

FWIW, if it's in the LL corner, I bet it's PR (back-(pedal regen)) that's being activated erroneously... i've had a few incidents with 3.2bX and newer baserunners and phaserunners where noise is getting coupled into various other lines (e.g. speed causing premature speed PID loop perturbation, and PAS signals which might be causing your inadvertent activation of pedal regen.)

 

[gopman]

Are you using the CycleAnalogger to do that? Or something custom?

Do you output a comma delimited tx. file? Cool.

Yeah your trip works with the Analogger input . Metric or Imperial? Metric, right? thankyou.

Ebike Trip Analyzer for Processing Logged Cycle Analyst and GPS Data

The Trip Analyzer lets you view trip log data from the Cycle Analyst and Analogger in order to see your energy usage and other stats from an ebike trip. With the GPS Analogger, you can see your exact route location on the map and all your electrical details at any given point on the way. It is...

ebikes.ca

I built a custom logger with a DC-DC buck regulator and a tiny serial to SDCARD module from Amazon (I think). I was using Imperial units. The file is directly what the CA logs, so fixed columns with spaces between them.

 

[gopman]

FWIW, if it's in the LL corner, I bet it's View attachment 350059PR (back-(pedal regen)) that's being activated erroneously... i've had a few incidents with 3.2bX and newer baserunners and phaserunners where noise is getting coupled into various other lines (e.g. speed causing premature speed PID loop perturbation, and PAS signals which might be causing your inadvertent activation of pedal regen.)

Yes, that's exactly what I saw. But I don't have pedal regen enabled. Only the digital aux buttons turn on regen, and the digital aux values weren't set to regen when the problem was happening. Since the CA was showing that it was outputting a high throttle out to the baserunner, but the was no motor current, I'm wondering if the baserunner was in some error condition. I don't think I can tell that from the CA logs.

 

[E-HP]

Yes, that's exactly what I saw. But I don't have pedal regen enabled. Only the digital aux buttons turn on regen, and the digital aux values weren't set to regen when the problem was happening. Since the CA was showing that it was outputting a high throttle out to the baserunner, but the was no motor current, I'm wondering if the baserunner was in some error condition. I don't think I can tell that from the CA logs.

Yup, the data is consistent with either the signal not reaching the base runner, or a problem with the base runner itself.