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Forget it, I'm done!
- Thread starter sangesf
- Start date
Nuts&Volts
100 W
LCO is Lithium Cobalt Oxide - chemistry of most RC lipo
NMC - Nickel, Manganese, Cobalt mix - still has lithium
Large format NMC sounds good, im excited for some info...
NMC - Nickel, Manganese, Cobalt mix - still has lithium
Large format NMC sounds good, im excited for some info...
I've been trying to get my hands on some decent large-format NMC for months. You don't even know what it is and you're being offered it.. :lol: you must have good karma.
*shakes fist at the the lithium gods*
*shakes fist at the the lithium gods*
As soon as you said LCO = Lithium Colbolt, I smacked my own head.. DUH!
That being said, I realized NMC was LiNiMnCo..
It was a brain fart..
Yeah, I DO have good kharma...
Was able to recently purchase 40 - 60AH "ThunderSags" for $50 a piece shipped.
Sold 'em all at $60 each and made a couple of bucks
Then was lucky enough to buy 19 - 60AH at $40 each shipped.
Sold all but 7... 4 of them I'm using to run my 12v accessories on my ebike and the other three are being donated to a friend.
I let ya know the specifics as to what I can get and how much it will cost (me) and if there is interest AND enough of them, I'd be willing to "resell" them at a slight price increase.
That being said, I realized NMC was LiNiMnCo..
It was a brain fart..
Yeah, I DO have good kharma...
Was able to recently purchase 40 - 60AH "ThunderSags" for $50 a piece shipped.
Sold 'em all at $60 each and made a couple of bucks
Then was lucky enough to buy 19 - 60AH at $40 each shipped.
Sold all but 7... 4 of them I'm using to run my 12v accessories on my ebike and the other three are being donated to a friend.
I let ya know the specifics as to what I can get and how much it will cost (me) and if there is interest AND enough of them, I'd be willing to "resell" them at a slight price increase.
NMC - buy a Zero motorcycle :wink: About the only way to get your hands on them.
From what I've heard, it performs like Lipo with the safety and cycle life of iron phosphate. I'm always a bit skeptical about cycle life predictions until it's been real-world tested, but these look very promising. I'm sure Luke can tell us much more.
From what I've heard, it performs like Lipo with the safety and cycle life of iron phosphate. I'm always a bit skeptical about cycle life predictions until it's been real-world tested, but these look very promising. I'm sure Luke can tell us much more.
parabellum
1 MW
What do they cost anyway, if not confidential? Is it NMC? New or used?sangesf said:Well, good kharma only gets ya so far..
They aren't large format, just the basic 26650 4.0Ah size... Oh well... I was hoping they were in prismatic form, but alas, no.
Lock
100 MW
Heh, 4.0ah.. those are the 1C batteryspace cells, aren't they.
Lock: those NMC batteries weigh more than my RC lipo. I've not heard of NMC having worse energy density than RC lipo. Those are the least impressive NMC i've seen and it's no wonder that nobody is using 'em.
Lock: those NMC batteries weigh more than my RC lipo. I've not heard of NMC having worse energy density than RC lipo. Those are the least impressive NMC i've seen and it's no wonder that nobody is using 'em.
parabellum
1 MW
Do you have specs of this cells? Interesting is max charge, discharge, cycle life/DOD, tabbed or not.sangesf said:
parabellum said:
Yeah, I asked the same questions.. Waiting on an answer..
(I've already bought 7 60ah Thunderskys from this person and they worked out well... So I'm sure whatever this person tells me will be true).
P.S. I also asked how much a 36v or 48v (20ah or so) pack would cost me...
Will update when I find out.
They thought I was a reseller, if I was, for some reason, then they would sell me individual 4.0Ah cells. (They are a reseller of the 4.0Ah cells and a pack maker of 2.2Ah cells).
As it were... Only the 2.2Ah cells....
Asked for a price on a 48v(14s), 72v(21s) and 96v(28s) 17.6Ah packs in both a cost for a "sample" and in Quantity (10 or more).
If the prices are good, I would be willing to setup a group purchase..
Reply forthcoming..
As it were... Only the 2.2Ah cells....
Asked for a price on a 48v(14s), 72v(21s) and 96v(28s) 17.6Ah packs in both a cost for a "sample" and in Quantity (10 or more).
If the prices are good, I would be willing to setup a group purchase..
Reply forthcoming..
Actually that's quite normal for low end stuff. They're kinda like 1C but can handle periods of 2C. Much like some of the mid-low end lifepo4 stuff.
What you really want to know is the wHr/KG of these cells. If they're not in the 200wHr/KG zone, you may as well just forget about them and stick to RC lipo.
Think about it.. If these are light, then a 20AH+ pack is no problem. If they're not, do you want to carry around 20AH+ of something that weighs as much as RC lipo? that's about 12lbs for a 36v pack. If it's good >200wHr/kg stuff, same AH pack will be around 9 pounds.
What you really want to know is the wHr/KG of these cells. If they're not in the 200wHr/KG zone, you may as well just forget about them and stick to RC lipo.
Think about it.. If these are light, then a 20AH+ pack is no problem. If they're not, do you want to carry around 20AH+ of something that weighs as much as RC lipo? that's about 12lbs for a 36v pack. If it's good >200wHr/kg stuff, same AH pack will be around 9 pounds.
It would depend on the specific NMC and LiCo cells being compared; there are good and poor versions of each.
EIG NMC cells (which are large pouch cells at 20Ah) most definitely have better specs than that, and Jay64 could tell you if their performance matches the specs. They are made for 0.5C charge (10A), 5C (100A) continuous and 10C burst (200A for 10sec):
http://eigbattery.com/eng/product/3.jpg
THey *are* 3.65V/cell nominal, though otherwise they are similar to LiCo (RC LiPo) in their charge/discharge curves and limits. Importantly, they are only 3milliohm impedance or less.
There are some threads already discussing them, including Jay64's photo thread of the packs themselves.
I'm sure there are also plenty of other good NMC cells out there; I expect most of them are large pouch cells.
Certainly low-end ones, but probably typical for small cylindrical types.sangesf said:
EIG NMC cells (which are large pouch cells at 20Ah) most definitely have better specs than that, and Jay64 could tell you if their performance matches the specs. They are made for 0.5C charge (10A), 5C (100A) continuous and 10C burst (200A for 10sec):
http://eigbattery.com/eng/product/3.jpg
THey *are* 3.65V/cell nominal, though otherwise they are similar to LiCo (RC LiPo) in their charge/discharge curves and limits. Importantly, they are only 3milliohm impedance or less.
There are some threads already discussing them, including Jay64's photo thread of the packs themselves.
I'm sure there are also plenty of other good NMC cells out there; I expect most of them are large pouch cells.
I think you mean 2.2Ah, rather than 2.2Wh?sangesf said:
The EIG cells are rated as nominally 175Wh/kg, 370Wh/liter. At 50% DOD, at the 10 second burst rate (200A), they are 2300Wh/kg, 4600Wh/liter.
But doing it the way you've calculated it, each cell weighs just under 1kg. At nominal 3.65V, 20Ah, that's 730Wh to 100% DOD. So just over 730Wh/kg.
The catch seems to be in finding a source for them. Jay64 got his from an unnamed ES member a while ago, but AFAIK doesn't know where that person got them from originally. I don't know if that person is still on the forum or not, to be able to find out.
Someone else was recently talking about a group buy from EIG themselves, but I don't know if they have ever gotten any response from EIG.
If we coudl get a source for them and their trays and mounting hardware, they would make really easy-to-assemble kickass ebike packs.
But kinda like with the 20Ah A123 pouches, if you can get good ones you can make kickass packs, but there's no commonly-available good hardware for hooking up the pouches into packs. EIG *does* have nice hardware, which is presumably available with the cells, if you can get them.
Starson
10 W
fechter said:
Went to the Zero motorcycle site and they sell their Li Ion battery with charger for $2,995.99 which fits two of their motorcycles. Could'nt find any spec info on the site for the battery though. http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=10
Gary
liveforphysics
100 TW
The only packs that use NMC are the 2012 packs. They don't have them listed for sale for another few weeks.
