Frey FAT 1000 2.0 first impressions

[FlyingFinn]

FlyingFinn, I saw you posted a picture of your bike on the top of a cold mountain. I'm in Canada where it gets pretty cold in the winter and would like to ride my bike all year round. How do you say it reacts to cold temperatures (breaks and suspensions)?

And, how cold was it, here it often gets to -20°C and sometimes -30°C, do you think the bike would still ride well at those temps?

Hi to the other side of the North Pole!

I’ve ridden the bike only as low as -18 C (this winter was a joke in Europe). On that exact trip with the photo you mentioned the rear brake (seals?) froze and spewed the brake fluids on my pants. Middle of Lapland so no bike shops anywhere. Improvised and filled the Magura MT5 rear brake with baby oil. Worked 100%. Rest of the week long trip with 150km’s of driving in various conditions ranging from +3 to -15 C without any issues.

Before that the bike was hauled 1000 kilometers behind a car in a rear-rack gathering ice and road salt. No issues whatsoever.

Front suspension becomes stiff and unresponsive in below -5 C. This is 100% normal for all forks except Wren. Rear suspension works really well after initial slugishness even when the bike is stored outside. Your pedaling action creates movement and thus friction creates heat in the rear shock.

It’s clear that you must bring the battery inside for storage or charging. If you would leave with a room temp battery and driving constantly the battery shouldn’t loose it’s capacity more than 10% no matter how cold it is. I bought this sleeve in order to maintain the heat in ultra long and stopover trips in the cold: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F392197710810

The sleeve won’t warm up a cold battery nor provide any capacity boost if you just ride non-stop. When it’s at it’s best is a trip where you need to stop for eg. 30-60 minutes and leave the bike outside in the cold. In those conditions you could easily contain 30%-50% more of battery capacity with this.

The fat tire pressures are really nit-picky about temps. From inside +20 to outside -20 and it would be like transforming from motorcycle tires to driving on a used condom. You need to have a small hand pump with you anyway. Pressure adjust is a must.

The bike in XL size is veeery tall and long. 220 cm long and maybe top tube is 140 cm in height. Motor ground clearance is the double compared to other bikes. Any rear racks won’t accomodate these kind of monsters. I’ve used Thule Velospace XT 2 with XXL-size special wheel straps. Even with these measures the bike fits barely

Just hit me with any questions. I haven’t ridden in deep snow since Southern Finland doesn’t have any and in Lapland there’s over 1 meter of it. Sweetspot could be maybe 20-40 cm in which the bike would really help you move around.

 

[Matar9000]

FlyingFinn, I saw you posted a picture of your bike on the top of a cold mountain. I'm in Canada where it gets pretty cold in the winter and would like to ride my bike all year round. How do you say it reacts to cold temperatures (breaks and suspensions)?

And, how cold was it, here it often gets to -20°C and sometimes -30°C, do you think the bike would still ride well at those temps?

Hi to the other side of the North Pole!

I’ve ridden the bike only as low as -18 C (this winter was a joke in Europe). On that exact trip with the photo you mentioned the rear brake (seals?) froze and spewed the brake fluids on my pants. Middle of Lapland so no bike shops anywhere. Improvised and filled the Magura MT5 rear brake with baby oil. Worked 100%. Rest of the week long trip with 150km’s of driving in various conditions ranging from +3 to -15 C without any issues.

Before that the bike was hauled 1000 kilometers behind a car in a rear-rack gathering ice and road salt. No issues whatsoever.

Front suspension becomes stiff and unresponsive in below -5 C. This is 100% normal for all forks except Wren. Rear suspension works really well after initial slugishness even when the bike is stored outside. Your pedaling action creates movement and thus friction creates heat in the rear shock.

It’s clear that you must bring the battery inside for storage or charging. If you would leave with a room temp battery and driving constantly the battery shouldn’t loose it’s capacity more than 10% no matter how cold it is. I bought this sleeve in order to maintain the heat in ultra long and stopover trips in the cold: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F392197710810

The sleeve won’t warm up a cold battery nor provide any capacity boost if you just ride non-stop. When it’s at it’s best is a trip where you need to stop for eg. 30-60 minutes and leave the bike outside in the cold. In those conditions you could easily contain 30%-50% more of battery capacity with this.

The fat tire pressures are really nit-picky about temps. From inside +20 to outside -20 and it would be like transforming from motorcycle tires to driving on a used condom. You need to have a small hand pump with you anyway. Pressure adjust is a must.

The bike in XL size is veeery tall and long. 220 cm long and maybe top tube is 140 cm in height. Motor ground clearance is the double compared to other bikes. Any rear racks won’t accomodate these kind of monsters. I’ve used Thule Velospace XT 2 with XXL-size special wheel straps. Even with these measures the bike fits barely

Just hit me with any questions. I haven’t ridden in deep snow since Southern Finland doesn’t have any and in Lapland there’s over 1 meter of it. Sweetspot could be maybe 20-40 cm in which the bike would really help you move around.

Wow, that's an awesome answer thanks for that, many valuable information there! I've been to Finland ten years ago, it was in summer but you really have an awesome country and amazing people. Made me think in many ways to Quebec province here with all the lakes and the pine and birch forests! You guys converted me to saunas and now I'm addicted to it

I was thinking of buying either the Fat1000, the FF1 or the Hunter, which is basically the same version but without the rear suspension (hardtail instead). But with what you say the rear suspension doesn't seem to be the problem in the cold, more the breaks and the front suspension, so I might as well stick with the Fat1000! When travelling in the cold like that, what would you recommend, carrying pumps for the suspension and the tires and carrying oil for the suspensions and the brakes as well?

I also read some comments that the rear rack for a full sus bike would not hold off well, but you don't seem to have one, so you can't probably say for sure. Anyways, I'm hesitating between these three models, the FF1 looks great as well, but I've read on several post that the rear sus is weird. Let me know your thoughts on that and what would you recommend if you will and have time

Hunter: https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...pm=a2700.wholesale.deiletai6.1.2b4f256b7ELayl

FF1: https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...pm=a2700.wholesale.deiletai6.3.52066566UEZ2pi

Fat1000: https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...26.html?spm=a2700.12243863.0.0.38403e5fZt13x6

Oh, and one last question, the Fat1000 in black looks sick, I've contacted Frey and they told me that the model is not available in this colour, how come where you able to get it black?

Thanks a lot and cheers from Canada!

Maxime

 

[FlyingFinn]

Wow, that's an awesome answer thanks for that, many valuable information there! I've been to Finland ten years ago, it was in summer but you really have an awesome country and amazing people. Made me think in many ways to Quebec province here with all the lakes and the pine and birch forests! You guys converted me to saunas and now I'm addicted to it

I was thinking of buying either the Fat1000, the FF1 or the Hunter, which is basically the same version but without the rear suspension (hardtail instead). But with what you say the rear suspension doesn't seem to be the problem in the cold, more the breaks and the front suspension, so I might as well stick with the Fat1000! When travelling in the cold like that, what would you recommend, carrying pumps for the suspension and the tires and carrying oil for the suspensions and the brakes as well?

I also read some comments that the rear rack for a full sus bike would not hold off well, but you don't seem to have one, so you can't probably say for sure. Anyways, I'm hesitating between these three models, the FF1 looks great as well, but I've read on several post that the rear sus is weird. Let me know your thoughts on that and what would you recommend if you will and have time

Hunter: https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...pm=a2700.wholesale.deiletai6.1.2b4f256b7ELayl

FF1: https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...pm=a2700.wholesale.deiletai6.3.52066566UEZ2pi

Fat1000: https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...26.html?spm=a2700.12243863.0.0.38403e5fZt13x6

Oh, and one last question, the Fat1000 in black looks sick, I've contacted Frey and they told me that the model is not available in this colour, how come where you able to get it black?

Thanks a lot and cheers from Canada!

Maxime

Nice to hear that you enjoyed your visit! I will definately visit Canada within a few years. We have very similar nature and climate.

I would recommend the HUNTER for you. Rear rack will hold better, you’ll save a ton of money, the bike will be around 3kgs lighter etc. FF1 hasn’t achieved great success thus you might be able to negotiate a good deal with Frey.

The rear shock is almost useless if you have fat tires. I have accidentally locked the shock and rode a week without even noticing. Of course it could help if you need to blast over watermelon sized rocks. Don’t get me wrong. The RockShox rear shock works and moves well. You won’t just notice it since the tires absorb the bumps even faster. I’m sometimes intentionally driving over curbs to feel like Zorb-ball.

In the cold weather I carry a handpump that fits to front fork as well. For longer trips or if the trip will include steep descents I would carry a minuscule bottle of brake fluid and a syringe. It only spews small amount before brake lever becomes a fiddly toy.

To the contrary If you must get 4.8” tires theres no other choice than FAT. Though the difference between 4.6” and 4.8” is un-noticeable. IMO FAT is the best looking of these three.

About the colors IMO gunmetal grey is even more sick than matte black. I ordered mine on the 1st of August 2019. Nowadays there could be material shortages due to Corona.

My proposition for ultimate Arctic-standard Frey is: Hunter with an aftermarket Wren fork in 135mm spacing and fitted with cold weather kit. You’ll feel like riding on the moon...

 

[Matar9000]

Wow, that's an awesome answer thanks for that, many valuable information there! I've been to Finland ten years ago, it was in summer but you really have an awesome country and amazing people. Made me think in many ways to Quebec province here with all the lakes and the pine and birch forests! You guys converted me to saunas and now I'm addicted to it

I was thinking of buying either the Fat1000, the FF1 or the Hunter, which is basically the same version but without the rear suspension (hardtail instead). But with what you say the rear suspension doesn't seem to be the problem in the cold, more the breaks and the front suspension, so I might as well stick with the Fat1000! When travelling in the cold like that, what would you recommend, carrying pumps for the suspension and the tires and carrying oil for the suspensions and the brakes as well?

I also read some comments that the rear rack for a full sus bike would not hold off well, but you don't seem to have one, so you can't probably say for sure. Anyways, I'm hesitating between these three models, the FF1 looks great as well, but I've read on several post that the rear sus is weird. Let me know your thoughts on that and what would you recommend if you will and have time

Hunter: https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...pm=a2700.wholesale.deiletai6.1.2b4f256b7ELayl

FF1: https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...pm=a2700.wholesale.deiletai6.3.52066566UEZ2pi

Fat1000: https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...26.html?spm=a2700.12243863.0.0.38403e5fZt13x6

Oh, and one last question, the Fat1000 in black looks sick, I've contacted Frey and they told me that the model is not available in this colour, how come where you able to get it black?

Thanks a lot and cheers from Canada!

Maxime

Nice to hear that you enjoyed your visit! I will definately visit Canada within a few years. We have very similar nature and climate.

I would recommend the HUNTER for you. Rear rack will hold better, you’ll save a ton of money, the bike will be around 3kgs lighter etc. FF1 hasn’t achieved great success thus you might be able to negotiate a good deal with Frey.

The rear shock is almost useless if you have fat tires. I have accidentally locked the shock and rode a week without even noticing. Of course it could help if you need to blast over watermelon sized rocks. Don’t get me wrong. The RockShox rear shock works and moves well. You won’t just notice it since the tires absorb the bumps even faster. I’m sometimes intentionally driving over curbs to feel like Zorb-ball.

In the cold weather I carry a handpump that fits to front fork as well. For longer trips or if the trip will include steep descents I would carry a minuscule bottle of brake fluid and a syringe. It only spews small amount before brake lever becomes a fiddly toy.

To the contrary If you must get 4.8” tires theres no other choice than FAT. Though the difference between 4.6” and 4.8” is un-noticeable. IMO FAT is the best looking of these three.

About the colors IMO gunmetal grey is even more sick than matte black. I ordered mine on the 1st of August 2019. Nowadays there could be material shortages due to Corona.

My proposition for ultimate Arctic-standard Frey is: Hunter with an aftermarket Wren fork in 135mm spacing and fitted with cold weather kit. You’ll feel like riding on the moon...

Awesome, thanks for the answer, I'll go with your advice for the hunter and add a seat post suspension in place of the rear one! Do you know if they do great in cold temperature?

While doing research, I've stumble upon another bike that seems really awesome with better spec then Frey bikes, here it is:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...59.html?spm=a2700.12243863.0.0.2ce83e5fLYKi2s

This looks like tons of fun! The problem is that I would like to use the bike for commuting and that at 5000 watts it is 10 times more then what's allowed on the road here in Canada

But, for the same price as the hunter, you get 5000 watts, a better battery, rear suspension, inverted fork front suspension and so on, so in fact, more for the money I believe. The problem is that I don't want to get arrested I'm not a speed freak, I would respect speed limits, but for off road and for hills that thing seems to be amazing.

Do you think that with an ebike like that if you respect all road legislation there is still a high chance to get arrested?

Another problem I see with a bike like that is that the battery is not easily removable, so in cold weather you would either have to take the whole bike inside or let it outside in the cold, which is not the best for batteries in general. But man, this thing looks great!

 

[FlyingFinn]

I know that one. There is a lot of downsides with that ”e-moped” though.

1. A lot heavier (50kg’s).
2. Pedal assist is on/off and thus
3. De Facto you can’t pedal this thing.
4. Battery can’t be removed easily (never charge a cold battery!!!)
5. Shipped to Europe Frey is cheaper. I don’t know how about Canada but Frey prices include VAT and Customs tax to EU-area. This C&N Leili doesn’t that’s for sure.
6. The frame is too small for an adult male (+180 cm). How do I know? I have this frame for my DIY project. The size is though suitable if you don’t pedal and use it only as a motorcycle. Ergonomics are good for chilling, not pedaling.

Seatpost suspension won’t be necessary. Save the money for a dropper post or studded tires. I use Vee Avalanches.

Here in Finland cops don’t even know what are the legal limits for ebikes. Cops are only interested from mopeds. I drove 55kmh on a 30kmh zone and came across a cop car on the oncoming lane. They had a good laughter. On the other hand my friend left a bar with an electric scooter while drunk. Cops pulled him over and did a breathalyzing test and took him to police station. Half way in their paperwork for DYI they discovered that it’s not even a crime since everything under 1000W and 25km/h are considered as bicycles. This time it was my friend who had a good laughter. He knew that it wasn’t a crime all along. Just played to be guilty and feel sorry

It’s totally insane that driving a lawnmower in your own yard while drunk is a DYI because you’re driving a motor vehicle.

On the other hand e-bikes would be motor vehicles otherwise as well but there’s a special law that states they must be considered as bicycles. Therefore you can drive on public roads with up to 1000W ebikes totally shitfaced completely legally. Luckily this is possible only in Finland and not in the most of Europe/World.

 

[Matar9000]

I know that one. There is a lot of downsides with that ”e-moped” though.

1. A lot heavier (50kg’s).
2. Pedal assist is on/off and thus
3. De Facto you can’t pedal this thing.
4. Battery can’t be removed easily (never charge a cold battery!!!)
5. Shipped to Europe Frey is cheaper. I don’t know how about Canada but Frey prices include VAT and Customs tax to EU-area. This C&N Leili doesn’t that’s for sure.
6. The frame is too small for an adult male (+180 cm). How do I know? I have this frame for my DIY project. The size is though suitable if you don’t pedal and use it only as a motorcycle. Ergonomics are good for chilling, not pedaling.

Seatpost suspension won’t be necessary. Save the money for a dropper post or studded tires. I use Vee Avalanches.

Here in Finland cops don’t even know what are the legal limits for ebikes. Cops are only interested from mopeds. I drove 55kmh on a 30kmh zone and came across a cop car on the oncoming lane. They had a good laughter. On the other hand my friend left a bar with an electric scooter while drunk. Cops pulled him over and did a breathalyzing test and took him to police station. Half way in their paperwork for DYI they discovered that it’s not even a crime since everything under 1000W and 25km/h are considered as bicycles. This time it was my friend who had a good laughter. He knew that it wasn’t a crime all along. Just played to be guilty and feel sorry

It’s totally insane that driving a lawnmower in your own yard while drunk is a DYI because you’re driving a motor vehicle.

On the other hand e-bikes would be motor vehicles otherwise as well but there’s a special law that states they must be considered as bicycles. Therefore you can drive on public roads with up to 1000W ebikes totally shitfaced completely legally. Luckily this is possible only in Finland and not in the most of Europe/World.

This post is hilarious! Haha, I'm not sure about driving an ebike shifaced here in Canada, there's a law that's says it's a motor vehicule so you shouldn't do it, and another one that says they are still considered a bicycle so you could, kind of a grey zone. I guess I'll have to try and let you know There's another law in Canada that prohibits you from being shitfaced in public though, but they mostly apply it for people that are being jerks or breaking stuff so this one shouldn't be a problem.

The shipping to Canada of this thing is actually cheaper then Frey, surprisingly, so the overall cost is cheaper for better components all the way. Thanks for letting me know that it would be hard to pedal! Won't get it then. As you say, it would surely catch the attention of the cops way more than Frey ebikes because it does really looks like a moped.

Pretty sure that here in Canada cops don't know and probably don't give a s*** about the max speed of ebikes, at least here in Quebec where I live. So far there's not much people running them. Maybe they will in the future, but as of now they probably don't care.

Regarding your Frey FAT 1000 2.0, did you order it with the 52V battery? I've asked them and they said they could put a 52V for the same price and that the bike handles it well, I will probably go for that. It's 17.5 ah instead of 21 for the 48V, but I've read that it doesn't lose power when it's getting lower in energy.

Also, regarding the maintenance of the rear suspension of the FAT 1000 (suspension, seals, oil, bearings, pivot, etc.) do you think it's a lot of job or you just have to do it every couple of years?

 

[FlyingFinn]

I ordered mine with 48V 21Ah battery. Yes it’s true when the battery gets empty that your speed is going to drop. Take the 52V if you want to go fast.

You don’t have to maintain the rear shock. Once in 3 years is fine.

Have you asked Frey how much shipping to Canada would cost and are the taxes included? Because to EU it was $550 taxes included.

 

[Matar9000]

I ordered mine with 48V 21Ah battery. Yes it’s true when the battery gets empty that your speed is going to drop. Take the 52V if you want to go fast.

You don’t have to maintain the rear shock. Once in 3 years is fine.

Have you asked Frey how much shipping to Canada would cost and are the taxes included? Because to EU it was $550 taxes included.

Nice, thanks for the info I'll go with the 52V then. I might as well wait that they include the Exess / Innotrace controller inside of the bafang, they are currently trying it and it would take the power of the motor to 2200 Watts while producing less heat and having better torque sensor control. They say that they are currently trying it and plan to release motor with this controller maybe by mid 2020, that would be awesome! Have you heard of it, if not check this thread:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=102068

Yeah, Canada is quite more expensive, it's $850 tax not included sadly Thanks for the info on the rear suspension! I think I'll stick with the Hunter though, seems like a better fit for the rear rack and winter, I'd like to add a trailer to the bike sometimes so with a hardtail it's probably better I guess.

I've just received the Rize X this week, it's not as awesome as the Hunter, but it'll make me wait until I order one :

https://rizebikes.ca/products/rize-x

 

[FlyingFinn]

Yes I know the Exess controller. It would be cheap to buy one for me since they produce them in Germany.

The chain, sprockets, shifter and freewheel are already stressed out. When you use the full power of Exess use it only when you are already going fast. Drag-racing or hill climbing with high gear could snap the chain immediately.

I strongly recommend to order the bike with gear shift sensor. You’ll save the price of the sensor during the life span of the bike maybe 50 times.

 

[Matar9000]

Yes I know the Exess controller. It would be cheap to buy one for me since they produce them in Germany.

The chain, sprockets, shifter and freewheel are already stressed out. When you use the full power of Exess use it only when you are already going fast. Drag-racing or hill climbing with high gear could snap the chain immediately.

I strongly recommend to order the bike with gear shift sensor. You’ll save the price of the sensor during the life span of the bike maybe 50 times.

Nice yest it's what I've read as well that they don't know yet if it's to hard on the chains, gears and drivetrains. I was already planning on getting a gear sensor, I don't know why they don't put them directly on all their model for 1000 Watt mid drive it should always be the case!

I don't know yet if I'll be able to get the Exess controller anyways since it seems to be only available in Europe as of now, I'll try to find a way to get it here, but Frey don't allow customers to have them directly in their motors for now as they want to test it out first.

I might as well wait to order the Hunter that they make this option available! Don't know if the extra power would be that usefull though, do you plan on getting the chip installed in your motor?

 

[FlyingFinn]

Nice yest it's what I've read as well that they don't know yet if it's to hard on the chains, gears and drivetrains. I was already planning on getting a gear sensor, I don't know why they don't put them directly on all their model for 1000 Watt mid drive it should always be the case!

I don't know yet if I'll be able to get the Exess controller anyways since it seems to be only available in Europe as of now, I'll try to find a way to get it here, but Frey don't allow customers to have them directly in their motors for now as they want to test it out first.

I might as well wait to order the Hunter that they make this option available! Don't know if the extra power would be that usefull though, do you plan on getting the chip installed in your motor?

I need already to change the chain and sprockets each 1000km’s. I’m not planning to update. If you want to go fast buy a hubmotor-driven bike.

The most fun thing with these Bafangs is that by pedaling harder you will get more assistance. That’s something a hubmotor can’t deliver. I promise you that it gets booring quite quickly if your sole excercise is the use of a throttle lever.

 

[Tom]

Some hubs do have torque sensing now. Juiced, Surface 604 to name a few. Probably going to be a different experience on steep hills.

 

[Matar9000]

Some hubs do have torque sensing now. Juiced, Surface 604 to name a few. Probably going to be a different experience on steep hills.

Yes, I received a Rize Bike last week and it's a hub motor with torque sensing, feels pretty amazing indeed! But there is a slight delay still, and it doesn't have the same power as a mid drive motor I bet. I tried it on very steep hills and could only go up to about 30 kmh with a lot a effort. Still good, but if I want to put a trailer and carry kids or stuff I bet it would be pretty hard, and thus that's why I would prefer a 1000 watt mid drive

If you change the chain every 1000km that ain't to bad. With a hub motor though the chain isn't affected as much, maybe it requires less maintenance.It is harder to take out the rear wheel though

Here the bike, it is still a pretty nice beast and a whole lot of fun, I tried it in the snow, on fat bike trail, ice trails, pavements for more than 300km already and it's awesome:

https://rizebikes.ca/products/rize-x

 

[AZeBikeGuy]

...If you change the chain every 1000km that ain't to bad. With a hub motor though the chain isn't affected as much, maybe it requires less maintenance.It is harder to take out the rear wheel though

I ride hard on a fat tire (presently 26x4.8") bike with a BBSHD and after getting the tune figgered out on it get >4km on a chain

 

[Matar9000]

...If you change the chain every 1000km that ain't to bad. With a hub motor though the chain isn't affected as much, maybe it requires less maintenance.It is harder to take out the rear wheel though

I ride hard on a fat tire (presently 26x4.8") bike with a BBSHD and after getting the tune figgered out on it get >4km on a chain

You mean you change the chain every 4km you ride on it? That's pretty intense, it does that after you've ramped up the wattage or just on regular motor with the right tuning?

 

[AZeBikeGuy]

I've got about 10km on the bike and 4km on this chain and it's showing very little stretch, maybe a bit less than 1mm when I checked a few weeks ago

The early tunes I was running were harder on things including the drive line and battery life but even when I didn't maintain the chain at all (I did an "experiment" and didn't even lube the chain), I still got >2500km

 

[Matar9000]

I've got about 10km on the bike and 4km on this chain and it's showing very little stretch, maybe a bit less than 1mm when I checked a few weeks ago

The early tunes I was running were harder on things including the drive line and battery life but even when I didn't maintain the chain at all (I did an "experiment" and didn't even lube the chain), I still got >2500km

Ok, nice so you've been doing more than 2500 km on the last chain with the optimized motor without taking care of it, impressive, hope the new Exess controller on the bafang motor will be able to yield similar results!

 

[Matar9000]

Nice yest it's what I've read as well that they don't know yet if it's to hard on the chains, gears and drivetrains. I was already planning on getting a gear sensor, I don't know why they don't put them directly on all their model for 1000 Watt mid drive it should always be the case!

I don't know yet if I'll be able to get the Exess controller anyways since it seems to be only available in Europe as of now, I'll try to find a way to get it here, but Frey don't allow customers to have them directly in their motors for now as they want to test it out first.

I might as well wait to order the Hunter that they make this option available! Don't know if the extra power would be that usefull though, do you plan on getting the chip installed in your motor?

I need already to change the chain and sprockets each 1000km’s. I’m not planning to update. If you want to go fast buy a hubmotor-driven bike.

The most fun thing with these Bafangs is that by pedaling harder you will get more assistance. That’s something a hubmotor can’t deliver. I promise you that it gets booring quite quickly if your sole excercise is the use of a throttle lever.

I just found out a relatively new company that will be selling the Bafang motor with the chip in it (they call it Archon instead of Exess) and they are called Watt Wagons: https://wattwagons.com/

Basically, they have the same bike as Exess, but they have an awesome fat bike model that has the chip and a Rohloff gear hub (instead of the drive train) with a Carbon Gate belt (instead of the chain). I talked to the owner of the company and he told me that even with the 3000 watt power, you only need to change the belt every 4000 km or so. So, apparently that would be the way to have a powerfull mid drive motor and reducing the wear on the mechanics of the bike at the same time: https://wattwagons.com/pages/crosstour_specifications

+, the model comes with a 52V 21ah battery and you can have 2 of them installed at the same time on your bike for a total of 42ah of autonomy.

The bike itself is quite expensive at $7000, but with a titanium frame and all the specs it looks like a good buy still. What would you think about it?

 

[FlyingFinn]

+Front fork is way better than in Frey FAT1000
+Belt driven. No broken hubs or chain skipping with 11t rear cog.
+Possibility to ride light with one battery or take both and have an insane range of 200km’s.

+— Titanium frame. Way lighter but not as nuclear bomb- proof than Frey’s super rigid frames. Saving 4kg’s is barely noticeable. Be sure that you get a good warranty for the frame. This forum has experienced incidents with that titanium fatbike frame. I think it was the seatstay that snapped. Subsequently this flaw was fixed.
+—Price is high though in line with the components. This bike doesn’t compete with Frey’s FAT. There isn’t a single key component from the same price range.

—Apparently no possibility to run 4.8” tires. Frey FAT can run 4.8”s but only installed on 85mm rims. To have the proper benefit of 4.8”s you would need 100mm wide rims. On 85mm 4.0” is just fine.

 

[Matar9000]

+Front fork is way better than in Frey FAT1000
+Belt driven. No broken hubs or chain skipping with 11t rear cog.
+Possibility to ride light with one battery or take both and have an insane range of 200km’s.

...

Nice analysis! Another + I would add is the 3000W motor because of the chip as well.

I reached out to Frey to see if it would be possible to have a rear gear hub and a belt like on the Hunter like on the Watt Wagon model and they told me they don't do it sadly ... would've loved that combo, maybe I'll do it myself then!

 

[FlyingFinn]

+Front fork is way better than in Frey FAT1000
+Belt driven. No broken hubs or chain skipping with 11t rear cog.
+Possibility to ride light with one battery or take both and have an insane range of 200km’s.

...

Nice analysis! Another + I would add is the 3000W motor because of the chip as well.

I reached out to Frey to see if it would be possible to have a rear gear hub and a belt like on the Hunter like on the Watt Wagon model and they told me they don't do it sadly ... would've loved that combo, maybe I'll do it myself then!

Bafang is implementing some kind of hub-based gear system. It’s possible that it would work electronically and have a fly-by-wire integration to the motor itself.

These are only rumours but it could be out within 1 year. Then maybe one more year and we have bikes running it.

 

[FlyingFinn]

Nice analysis! Another + I would add is the 3000W motor because of the chip as well.

I reached out to Frey to see if it would be possible to have a rear gear hub and a belt like on the Hunter like on the Watt Wagon model and they told me they don't do it sadly ... would've loved that combo, maybe I'll do it myself then!

Just buy the Wattwagons. Why?

My rear hub failed last fall only after 150kms of driving on my Frey FAT. Don’t understand me wrong. Frey is still an excellent buy. There was an issue though.

The original Quanta rear hub was supposed to be 190mm wide. It wasn’t. It was 188.7mm wide. The whole rear section of the bike was built around it to fit that hub perfectly.

Now the issue itself. I had to buy a DT Swiss 350 Big Ride- rear hub. Why? Check the AM1000 thread. It was 190mm wide on the spot which meant my brake disc was off caliper and rubbing brake mount and smallest cog on the other side was rubbing the frame.

I took the bike to two different specialists that both gave the same verdict. I needed to myself, they wouldn’t do it even for money due to liability reasons, sand down 0.5mm off from my rear brake mount and frame around the axle. The task took 6 hours of hard labour with a diamond tipped Dremel, mask and goggles. Now I have some spare masks as leftover so I was lucky at the same time

After this I ran into a new issue. The rear wheel was spinning finally freely but the chain would rub to frame on 11t cog. The tolerance was really small to begin with. Once again back to specialist. He had to order a custom milled bushing that cost 5€! My happy grin was wiped off soon when the labour bill was 100€ on top of everything.

This whole ordeal cost me 700€ and one month. Atleast now I have the capability to switch between my two wheelsets. Winter is 26x4.8” Vee Snowshoe XL studded and summer is 27.5x3.8” Bontrager Hodag (really 3.4” on 50mm carbon rims). Bike is lighter in summer by 3kg’s. Hopefully the owner as well!

Would I still recommend Frey? Absolutely yes. All the other more expensive manufacturers have even worse problems. Otherwise the Frey bikes are bomb-proof.

 

[speedsix]

Frey Fat 1000 ordered!!!!
I hope I have done the right choose for me and my wife!
We wanted a bike to travel on the road and and on the mountain, so why we do not buy a Frey AM 1000?
Because I supposed that a full fat was one of the more comfortable bike to travel on the mountain also if you see the frame measures.
We want to organize a 1000km trip this summer on Santiago de Compostela route and I hope I have done the right choose.l also regarding quality....
Any other who have experience with this bike and with a long trip on fat?

 

[speedsix]

I received from Frey the photos of two ordered fat bikes ready for the shipping with a brilliant yellow!

 

[FlyingFinn]

Awesome color! I run mine black with 27.5” summer wheelset. If you want to see some jumping action check the AM-thread.