Greenspeed Trikes + Cyclone Front Crank Compatibility

[SolarTriker]

Hello Everyone,

I'm a big fan of this forum - been doing a lot of reading and researching for a solar charged electric trike I really want to build an a very tight budget.

This might seem like a bit of a dumb question but does anybody know if the Greenspeed (looking at getting an old 2004 GTR) front crank is a standard bicycle size and I can replace it with a cyclone DIY kit. Anybody done this before and if you have can you also please give me some pointers on where/how the motor is attached and how to rig up a tensioner to the so i can still use the front gears?

I was leaning towards mouting solar panels on the trike but the ones we have in Australia for good $/watt are glass covered heavy framed ones - I think I will have a decent sized SLA at home and charge LiPOs through an inverter. I have a trick Plasmatronics Dingo solar regulator that I could program up to charge LiPOs but will look into this in more detail later if I find some decent rugged and light panels.

I'm not the most loaded guy in the world and most of this stuff will happen very slowly as $ are saved up - still do not yet have a trike or electric motor! I will keep everyone posted on my slow progress!

Cheers!

Future Solar Triker

 

[AussieJester]

Sounds like a cool project, i want too put up some windmills at my place to charge my ride. Have you heard of Oatley they have alot of solar and wind power components at decent prices? I also came across some DIY solar panel kits when researching windmills That maybe of interest?

best of luck..

KiM

 

[gunthn]

Ooh
I like the idea of solar tech meets non hub drive tech. 8)

How many panels would it take to power a decent ride? Maybe something using half of a 1kw batt. for a day.

Gunther

All the best

1839 is year solar is discovered. You learn the most excellent facts around here.

Thanks Kim for that link

 

[SolarTriker]

G'day Aussie,

Oatley do not really have a presence in Australia as far as I am aware.

Since you asked here is a shameless plug of where I work:

http://www.todae.com.au - click on Solar Panels and Wind generators is one of the links under that. We also have an EBay page and you can sometimes get a fantastic bargain our our 95c Solar Panel auctions from time to time.

The main problem with Wind generators is getting a pole high enough so they are not in turbulent wind reducing their lifetimes etc. a folding pole makes servicing a lot easier and less death defying too! The cheaper Chinese Envirowinds are noisy ~40dB under 20kmh winds (about as noisy as a car) - they are a 3 phase permanent magnet alternator device!

Thanks for the Solar link - the Solar Kits are cool and building a panel would mean no heavy glass modules - the cells you use (get them on Ebay and build the module around them - plenty of DIY info available) are extremely fragile and I would need to work out something light and durable for my setup. It's a bit too easy for me to get ready made ones where I am sitting right now though! At this stage actually getting a half decent trike and motor setup is higher on the priority list!

I thought the below link was one of the best ones I have ever seen for people interested in Solarizing their Ebikes:

http://www.solarpoweredbike.com/

Thanks for posting - nice trike by the way, great work!

 

[AussieJester]

I gave you the link to Oatley in Australia...

Cheers for the link shall check it out

KiM

 

[coln72]

I'm 99.99% sure that Greenspeed use standard sized bottom brackets on their trikes. The ones they sell us to build our trikes are anyway.

 

[Capo_au]

I might be able to point you in the right direction.

A friend of mine recently bought a recumbent trike off this bloke. Although he builds and sell's his own trikes he is also an official Greespeed dealer and their head R&D man, if i recall correctly. He seemed like a nice enough guy so I doubt he would have any problems answering a few of your questions.

In fact i'm willing to bet he would take an interest in your project. I joined my friend when he went down to pick up his new trike a few months back and was able to have a wonder around in "Mr Recumbenttrike's" (aka Michael) shed. There would have been upwards of a dozen or so trikes of all shapes and sizes in there hanging from every wall and covering the floor. Including his pride and joy, a $10,000AUD velomobile called the Glyde. I would sell my left arm to have a go at sticking one of Matt's RC setups on that beautiful bit of kit

Anyway, quite a few of his trikes had bolt on electric kits, none of them very successful by the sound of it. I had a chat to him at the time about it and he was quite keen to see how I go at turning my mates trike electric. This is very much a work in progress.

So long story short, shoot him an email and I would be surprised if you didnt catch his attention. Also if your local to Melbourne it might be worth heading down and having a chat/look around yourself.

Best of luck with the project!

-Capo

 

[rhitee05]

Take a look at Cyclone's double-freewheel kit. I believe that's designed for trike/recumbent use. It has two freewheel sprockets on the motor used with two chains - BB -> motor, motor -> wheel. This takes the place of the freewheeling cranks, so I assume you could use the stock cranks with this kit. Their freewheeling cranks are notoriously unreliable, anyway.

 

[SolarTriker]

Wow this is awesome - thanks everyone for this! I absolutely love this forum already! Cool

Gunter - the amount of energy you get per installed W of solar panel depends on where you are in in the world and how sunny it is there. In sunny Sydney charging batteries with a power point tracking solar regulator you would expect to get ~4.2Wh per watt of solar panel avg through the year (under ideal conditions with no shading and on a northerly pitch). This means ~120W of solar panel for 0.5kWh of battery energy - the problem with this is most modules of ~120W and less are 12V nominal - I was considering a 24V Cyclone because I have 2 X 30W 12V Panels Conergy panels I got for cheap. Farbricating your own panel means you can arrange to cells to give you the voltage you want. the alternative is to have the panels charge a 12V battery and then plug your BMS into a suitable 240V inverter.

Even mounting 2 X 30W Panels - on a trike is going to be a serious pain! The panels are 3.5kg ea bulky fragile glass and their mounting system will introduce a lot of instabilty (top heavy, brackets sticking out from the frame etc).

Coln thank you for that clarification that's great - definitely put my mind at ease somewhat. Capo - I'm in Sydney but will definitely make contact with Michael - I was considering KMXs initially because their steel frames make working a bit easier. Leaning away fro mounting panels on the trike at the moment.

Cheers everyone!

 

[gunthn]

You could use an RC lipo charger. They are, at least teh silly one i have, is 12v input with variable output according to your needs. They are small and light.
Also you will find no group with more knowledge and insight into them for bike use than here. That said, I will cease and desist on the subject as my information is likely to cost you either a battery or a charger. :wink:

Seems doable from where you are. Not the northern climes I habituate and even habitate. Maybe a windmill would work here or some sort of magnet which can be attached to a bus. :wink: :wink:

Oh I think that would be a southern pitch from my perspective. I mean unless you want to get some Santa energy.

 

[SolarTriker]

Hi Guys,

Just thought I'd post a couple of updates in where I am at with this project - and s**tloads more questions! I got a Greenspeed GT3 series 1 on Ebay at a good price - should have it shipped over to Sydney it in a week or so which is very exciting. I have never owned or ridden a recumbent before and it's great to finally be getting started after thinking about this for ages! The other thing was a bit of a eureka moment about how the cyclones actually work so all the gears still function. It's pretty hilly around here and one of the prerequisites is that I can still use all the gears. I was a bit confused about how to have the front derailleurs still functional when you're replaced the front crank with their freewheeling toothed thingy.

Looking at those photos of trikes with Cyclones I've just realized what they mean by the 'double freewheel'! Ahhh so I don't actually have to replace the front crank anymore. A lot of you are probably thinking duh - this guy is such a clueless noob! True!

OK so this moves me on to asking a questions (probably dumb as ever my apologies in advance!

Does the double freewheel mean that the motor will be running at lower RPMs because it is directly connected to the drive chain rather than being geared down to the front crank and so doesn't this mean the motor does not produce as much power and it is nowhere near as efficient turning my hard earned solar amp-hours into heat?

Next - does the double freewheel kit come with a tensioner or do I need to get this separately and is this easy to mount onto the motor or do I need to fabricate something to get it onto the frame. Can the tensioner point upwards so it doesn't reduce the already limited clearance on 16in wheels?

Normally when running through the gears on a standard pushie you use the biggest front cog with first few (fastest gears) in the back, the middle one with the middle back gears etc. so as not to make the chain bend too much - wont the double freewheel make the chains on both sides - to the front and the back cags and at a bigger angle - will this still work what does this mean in terms of chain and gearing wear and tear? Where is the best place to mount the motor in this case - slightly closer to the front cogs as the back cassette travel is greater so the angle of bend is slightly less? Maybe this has been covered somewhere in the forum already? Am I better off with their 3 chainwheel kit and replacing the cranks in the Greensepeed after all???

My proposed setup is as follows - Cyclone 500W dual freewheel kit (i'm trying to stick to 24V athough I wasn't heaps impressed with the review - cycle analyst from E-mtb.com.au. I can pay US$250 extra and get "Cyclone 10AH 24V Lifepo4 pack in bag+ 2A charger Complete kit" from the cyclone website with this - is this recomended or should I get better value/quality elsewhere - what are the other costs like freight and duties like?? What about a BMS?? Electric MTB also have a 'pre-order'offer but it seems like they will take ages to deliver? I'm assuming that if cyclone say a 2A charger that means at 24V not 240V so if I'm using an inverter I don't need a 500W pure sinewave device?

Gunter what are you offering in terms of batteries and 12V chargers for 24V or 36V Lipos please?

http://www.e-mtb.com.au/page.html?id=15

I probably can't afford it but is it possible to get an A123 pack of 10-15Ah at 24 or 36V with a BMS and charger built up for EV use and what would something like that cost and where would it be possible to have one imported into Australia? I'm definitely not up for putting one of these things together?

Questions questions questions my mind is spinning and I can't wait to get stuck into this now! Cheers in advance everyone!

 

[dnmun]

if you are using the solar only to charge the battery, then you don't have to go through an inverter to a charger.

you can use the output from your panels, which would be feeding your base storage batteries, and connect the output from those batteries to an up converter, also called a buck converter to push the voltage up to the 45V you need to charge a 36V lifepo4 pack. then leave your 36V pack on the upconverter output. or 24V pack should drive the trike too. and then change your drive ratio for more speed.

you may wanna put off all financial decisons too until you see what space you have to mount a battery pack in. building them is not too hard, but it is almost cheaper to let the chinese girls do it for you, and they do better work too. but the preassembled packs may not fit your space.

 

[SolarTriker]

Update!!!

I received my second hand Greenspeed GT3 yesterday. Folded it out had some pedals attached at the bike shop down the road and rode it home last night and to work this morning. So I'm a triker now (solar powered only in the sense that the food I eat gets its energy from the sun!).

I have never ridden a trike before! Man it is some much fun! You're just sitting back and it's comfortable so you're happy to ride the extra distance to avoid traffic. Corners are mad fun you lean into them and it's nowhere near as uncomfortably bumpy I though it would be.

It's super scary in Sydney though because we have very few bike paths and a crazy lady sitting at an intersection said hey that looks dangerous you're really hard to see and another lady called out to me from her car this morning saying the same thing - I am well aware of this but it is a bit annoying when I'm just enjoying my new toy! You really have to stop at interections and at roundabouts and proceed with a lot more caution because you can't see over cars and want to make sure cars see you in the roundabout. It's wider as well so it's harder to squeeze in between cars on the road and jesus I am shit scared of opening doors!

Acceleration feels really direct and it feel a lot more efficient than my standard treddly. I feel a bit hestiant now to mount a motor, batteries etc on this thing - it feels really well set up and is plenty fast enough for me at the moment and I don't have a very long commute to work. Interestingly I emailed Paco from Cyclone and he replied with no info have a look below! Is he syaing the double freewheel kits come with a tensioner?

10AH 24V is 17x15x8cm, 20Ah is 34x15x8cm

the kit will including all the parts you need.

500W "double freewheel kit" + HW 10AH 24V Lifepo4 pack in bag+ 2 A charger Complete kit with sipping is 686.4USD
500W "double freewheel kit" + HW 20AH 24V Lifepo4 pack in bag+ 5 A charger Complete kit with sipping is 1036.4USD
BR
Paco
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: cyclonebike@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 9:24 AM
Subject: Electric Trke Tech Info and Kit Pricing Pls

Dear Paco,

I am interested in installing a 24V 500 double freewheel kit (must have an external controller) on a folding Greenspeed GT3 trike. I am after prices and some detailed info please on how this is installed and what other compnents I need and how best to mount it all (chain tensioner for example). Please send me any detailed info you might have and prices including delivery please to Sydney Australia. Prices on the kit with and without batteries would be appreciated – pls give me price on 10Ah and 20Ah LiFePO4 with BMS charger and carry bags – I need dimensions on the battery banks also pls?

The KMX trike setup on your website is of special interest to me because clearance is very limited on the Greenspeeds – do you have a manual for doing a setup very similar to this?

 

[Capo_au]

I have never ridden a trike before! Man it is some much fun! You're just sitting back and it's comfortable so you're happy to ride the extra distance to avoid traffic. Corners are mad fun you lean into them and it's nowhere near as uncomfortably bumpy I though it would be.

Heh, welcome to my world Greenspeed trikes are a blast and a lot easier to ride than a KMX I find, hence the price differences.

Just make sure you use your flag! Oh and I highly recommend investing in a bike horn of some description. They are very hand when trying to make your self known...or giving someone a toot when they cut you off.

I'm in the middle of planing an etrike conversion of a friends trike as well, its a variation of a GT3. Its going to be scary quick with Matt's 4kW motor and reduction drive.

If you are doing any night riding and are looking for some trike lights head over to my blog and take a look at one solution for it.