Grin phaserunner & CA 3.15 can regen be disabled?

Stuartlsl

10 mW
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
28
Location
California
So I purchased a rtr kit from grin with the phaserunner, CA 3.15 and g62 to install on my folding ebike that the controller and display got fried on. I'm using a battery discharge balancer ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BCWCMWV7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ) to connect the battery in the frame and battery I bought for the rear rack and with the original controller and display I had no problems running this way but with the grin set I lose throttle because phaserunner gets a 2,5 fault Instantaneous Controller overvoltage. Does anyone know how to disable regen so that I can use batteries in this configuration as I need both batteries to get me to work, 1 battery just won't cut it and I can't easily disconnect the in frame battery half way through the ride while towing a trailer. I would have to disconnect trailer so that I can fold the bike and remove the battery pull off the connecting plate to access controller and plug in rear battery and reassemble. I've emailed grin a couple of times and still waiting on a response so I thought I'd ask here. Picture of my rig but I now have a different battery on the rack.
 

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So I purchased a rtr kit from grin with the phaserunner, CA 3.15 and g62 to install on my folding ebike that the controller and display got fried on. I'm using a battery discharge balancer ( Amazon.com ) to connect the battery in the frame and battery I bought for the rear rack and with the original controller and display I had no problems running this way but with the grin set I lose throttle because phaserunner gets a 2,5 fault Instantaneous Controller overvoltage. Does anyone know how to disable regen so that I can use batteries in this configuration as I need both batteries to get me to work, 1 battery just won't cut it and I can't easily disconnect the in frame battery half way through the ride while towing a trailer. I would have to disconnect trailer so that I can fold the bike and remove the battery pull off the connecting plate to access controller and plug in rear battery and reassemble. I've emailed grin a couple of times and still waiting on a response so I thought I'd ask here. Picture of my rig but I now have a different battery on the rack.

The reason the problem happens is because of the so-called balancer (it can't actually balance batteries, so it shouldn't be called that, but that's not your problem, that's the sellers'). We'll just call it a paralleler because all it really does is allow you to parallel multiple batteries of different voltages without current flowing from one at higher voltage back into another at lower voltage. It does this by blocking all reverse current flow in one of a number of ways.

With that in place, anytime the motor generates current, whether from regen or even just coasting, it cannot be fed back to the battery, and creates voltage spikes that build up inside the controller until the controller FETs and LVPS and any other parts connected to the battery voltage bus exceed their ratings, and are damaged or destroyed.

If your previous setup failed only after using the paralleler, it could've been the same issue--it just wasn't "smart" enough to shutdown during the event and blew up instead. (or in the event of coasting, like going downhill, none of the controllers would be able to prevent the problem, even if "turned off" it would still happen just because the current from the motor has nowhere to go. (this has happened to other people)


So, disabling regen will prevent the controller from deliberately generating reverse currents, but it won't stop them from being generated in coasting, downhill, etc.

Your safest route (as far as controller/etc is concerned) to fixing this problem is removing the paralleler and just using a straight up Y-cable to connect the battery packs. Once this is done, then to ensure safe paralleling (assuming same-full-voltage packs) all you must do is fully charge / balance each pack before connecting them, and disconnect them during charging (if they have separate charge/discharge (C-/P-) ports on the BMS; if they have common ports you don't have to disconnect during charge).


One "easy fix" is simply to disconnect the ebrake wires from the CA. That prevents any braking from being generated at the CA itself--but it doesn't stop the PR from using "slip regen" or "one pedal driving" type modes, if it is setup to do so.


FWIW, normally the G62, being a geared hubmotor, doesn't create regen.
Should we assume you have this version of the RTR kit that includes the modified G62 (welded or locked clutch) that allows regen?


That said, regen can be disabled. There are a few possible places you might need to do this, so first we need to know how your system is actually setup to generate regen, meaning what behaviors of the system are setup to do this.

Before you make any changes, please make a backup of the configuration, either by taking clear pictures of every screen in every menu of either the actual CA display or the setup program's download of the CA settings or saving that file (all three can be a good idea in case one version or the other gets corrupted or lost), and for the PR by saving the download of the settings in the setup program / taking pictures of the screens in every menu.

If you don't backup the settings, and end up having to reset the device(s) at any point to fix a problem, you will then have to figure out what all the settings were, by yourself, manually, by experimentation, which is not just zero fun, it's negative fun, and will probably take significant time while the entire system is unusable. :(

Next post will cover the settings you can try.
 
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For the regen settings, in the CA, there's a setting here:
https://ebikes.ca/product-info/grin-products/cycle-analyst-3.html#SetupEbrake
that engages braking mode and uses the throttle to tell the controller to brake instead of accelerate. You can disable this in that menu. Section copied below, with relevant settings underlined and in bold. [ EBk->Prop Regen ] should be set to disabled, and [ EBk->Brake Out ] should be set to *higher than* the range the PR is setup to recognize as a braking-command-voltage; normally just below the minimum throttle voltage, which is normally between 0.8v-1.4v, depending on your actual throttle's behavior. You can verify this voltage in the PR setup software if necessary, but a good test voltage is 0.9v as it's likely to be in the "deadband" range.


If these don't stop the error, then the PR settings will have to be modified to change it's throttle/braking behavior, and we'll work that out if this doesn't work.

Ebrake Input Setup Menu

1693427447650.png

Ebrake Setup Menu, the shape on the left is an image of a brake lever, and changes between open and closed based on the state of the ebrake switch input.


The CA3 had an input plug for a digital brake cutoff sensor which can be be used to drive the throttle output signal in a 0-0.8V signal range to activate regenerative braking on suitable motor controllers, or a simple cutoff effect on generic motor controllers. The preview line shows the current state of the brake lever and should go from an open lever to a pressed lever when the brake switch is active.

The ebrake connects to the CA via the 4-pin plug and operates as a simple switch. It can operate with both normally open and normally closed switch logic, and can activate regenerative braking with controllers that do regen with a 0.0 - 0.8V throttle signals.
[ EBk->Signal Lvl ]
Chooser to select if a High or Low voltage on the EBk pin signals that brakes are applied. Almost all commercial ebrake sensors use Active Low signaling, but homemade sensors are often easier to design with Active High logic. Select so that the ebrake icon on the preview screen reflects the proper 'released/applied' ebrake condition.
[ EBk->Prop Regen ]
Chooser to select if proportional regen is active when ebrakes are applied.
  • Disabled: Throttle OUT voltage is set to Brake Out when ebrakes are applied. [Default]
  • Enabled: Throttle OUT voltage is set to Brake Out when ebrakes are applied and the rider throttle is ZERO. As the rider throttle is increased with ebrakes applied, the Throttle OUT voltage decreases from Brake Out to 0V to increase the proportional regen braking effect. All Grin controllers support this feature.
[ EBk->Brake Out ]
The CA Throttle OUT voltage when ebrakes are applied. This value must be less than
ThrO->MinOut [Default = 0].
Some controllers recognize values between 0V and ThrO->MinOut as a command to apply regen braking. For Grin controllers, regen braking increases from minimum to maximum in the range 0.8V - 0.0V respectively. Setting BrakeOut in this range selects the baseline regen brake intensity when ebrakes are applied, with values closer to 0V having more braking force and values closer to 0.8V having less braking force.
[ EBk->Min Time ]
This is the minimum time in seconds from the time of application that ebrakes are applied. This fixed minimum time will be extended if the ebrakes continue to be held ON. This feature facilitates mid-drive shifting by briefly removing motor power for a fixed period when tapping the brakes or using a gear shift sensor.
 
Both batteries are 48v but different ah and chemistry. No what happened with the old controller is (little long story try to keep it short) I was hit by a car which damaged my motor, the motor that the manufacturer sent me as a "direct replacement" the power cord was shorter so I just pulled on the wire a bit and since the controller is in the frame I unknowingly pinched the controller up against the power wire, and on my way home from work it was dark I couldn't see a pothole and bam lose of power. When I got it home and tore it apart I found controller and display smoked.

The new lifepo4 battery on the rack does have separate charge and discharge plugs and manufacturer boldly states to not charge via discharge port. No I did not have him weld the clutch it's just a stock g62. I do not have ebrake connected to the CA because if I did my light kit would have the brake light always on, CA showed no brake activated but when I pull the lever it would show actuation so I disabled cruise and did not plug into CA and brake lights work as they should but I am using just the black wire from CA so that when I pull lever I get 0v.

Ill check CA and pr settings this evening when I get home from work, I have I think only 2 sets of xt60 connectors I think but plenty of wire, so you suggest I remove the "paralleler device and just connect both positive battery terminals to pr + in and both negative terminals to pr - just be sure to disconnect battery b4 charging?
 
No I did not have him weld the clutch it's just a stock g62.
In this case there can be no regen from the motor because the wheel can't turn the motor if you are rolling forward (it could do it if you're rolling backward), so it isn't regen that is causing your problem; it's some other issue.

So, disabling regen should make no difference to the problem (though ti also won't change anythign else in the system because it isn't in use anyway).

There could still be flyback voltage spikes from the motor windings as the motor stops being commanded to spin and the fields collapse, and these will effectively be the same result as regen voltage spikes would be, with nowhere to go because of the battery paralleler isolating the controller from being able to load that voltage down and prevent it.
 
If i remove the paralleler I haven't seen this problem, but I know I will not make it to any of my job sites without having the 2 batteries. The stock battery in the frame is a 48v 15ah Lithium-Ion and the one on the rack is a 48v 30ah lifepo4 will this create an issue if I made a y connector like you previously said of will it be OK and just make it like it is a higher ah battery? They both have their own bms, well I know the lifepo4 does I'm not 100% sure about the other as in the item description in different sections it says it has LG cells and others say Samsung cells, I also kinda doubt it's 15ah.
 
Finally got a response from grin that says as follows. "In the Phaserunner software you can go to edit> edit parameters > + > search for address 212 features 04 Analogue braking enable and then add. Then uncheck the box and save parameters. That should disable any regen braking." incase anyone comes across this and needs it.
 

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Thanks.

Let us know if it helps with the problem or solves it completely--since you have no regen braking available from the motor, it shouldn't make any difference to the problem, unless the controller does some other form of behavior for capping the voltage spikes during normal traction use based on this (which it shouldn't).
 
I noticed after you posted your most recent thread that you never replied here. Did you resolve the issue you started in this thread? If so, what was the resolution (so future readers can be helped by it)?
 
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