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help needed with dead aotema

rbelisle1

10 W
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
93
After 3000 miles, my aotema kit has died.
Symptoms before death.

1. Occasional loss of power. The power loss did not appear to be caused by bumps or turns or acceleration. I would be riding along and the power would just quit. Full throttle, part throttle, no pattern.
2. I was able to restart the system by unplugging the three wire motor connection. I did not have to turn off the controller or unplug the battery. I figured it was that controller to motor connection that was failing. Since new, the three wire trailer type plug has been a concern as it gets slightly warm while riding. I replaced the plug, with a different style, no change. Still the occasional cut-out.
3. I then suspected the wiring at the head tube may have flexed one too many times and that my plugging and unplugging moved a broken wire back into place. The loss of power was fairly uncommon in the last two weeks, but the number of failures was increasing. So I replaced all motor power wires from the controller to the motor (I didn’t open the motor, just cut the wires close to the motor) with 10 gauge stranded wire. I noticed an increase in torque and the problem went away for over a week.
4. 2 weeks ago Friday on my ride to work, the power failed again. Totally dead this time no power to the wheels, all LED's working as they should. I could not restart the system. I had to call Phoenix EV rescue (my wife with the truck!!) Opened up the controller and found that the sensor less start board had become unstuck from the case. I built out a quick holder inside and buttoned the controller back up. All systems working fine for 1 week.
4. This Friday, totally dead again. All LED’s look fine.... I opened up the controller again and inspected every single wire and looked the entire board and sensor board over for blown parts. Tested all FET's with a meter. I found no issues, other then the main board is not well supported and appears to have the ability to flex, ever so slightly. The only thing holding the board in is the heat sink tabs on the FET's and some white foam weather strip type tape. I really really crappy way to install a board. So my though was that maybe one or more of the FET legs had failed due to vibration, like a paperclip if you bend it too much. I removed the rubber coating and tested all FET's. All are fine.
5. Since I didn’t replace the last 6 inches or so of wire at the hub motor, I suspected those wires now. A meter showed no issue, no matter how I moved or twisted the wires.

So here I am... I think that the controller has failed, either the sensor less board or the main board. Anyone have any other ideas?????????
or know where I can get a new controller (or used) cheap and quickly???????

bob in phx.
 
The symptoms you describe really stink of a broken or loose connection, or a shorted to the axle place on the phase wires. Sounds like the last place you haven't repaired it is inside the hub. Time to open er up, and look for a scuffed wire where it enters the axle, or even a problem further in where it solders onto the windings or something.

And of course, do doublecheck all your previous repairs too. I had similar problems, intermittent unexpected cutouts or loss of power, and my repair had come off the connector from a poor crimp.

If it's a problem at the axle all you need to do is remove that wire side cover. Be really carefull though, if you pull the rotor out. You can just about pinch a finger off if you put it back together as the magnets are STRONG.

Fix it, and bring it, to the spooky tooth death races next month. We can race in the Aotema class. I'll have several controllers with me btw, if you just want to do a test with one. Just be sure there isn't a short at the axle, since that can toast a controller. Really though, I'd expect something wrong at the led's if the controller was the prob.
 
Hi Bob!

I suspected the sensorless module in you controller is faulty. The easilest way to narrow down the problem is to test one component at a time. See below:

1. Borrow another controller and test with your motor & throttle
2. Use another throttle to test both controller & motor
3. Use another motor to test the throttle & controller

For a sensorless controller replacement, please click on the link below:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17191

Your Truly,
Lyen
 
HI FOLKS: Ijust had STEVEO mod. a ATOMA controller up to 35amps.as a possible back controller on my x5000 motors, That was before I found LYEN'S SENSORLESS controller. and STEVEO said what a crappy built controller the ATOMA was. I learned that you could run a sensored motor that had bad halls sensors with it from DOGMAN (what a help he has been for a lot of us) anyway STEVEO said that the insides of the ATOMA were not put togather very good and if that turns out to be the problem, just for a few dollors more get LYENS SENSORLES INFINEON. GOOD DAY :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
rbelisle1 said:
So here I am... I think that the controller has failed, either the sensor less board or the main board. Anyone have any other ideas?????????
or know where I can get a new controller (or used) cheap and quickly???????
I don't have a sensorless controller to test your motor, but we can test your controller on my Fusin (just not connecting the halls). I also have an oscilloscope we can use to test the controller for signals, but if it's like various situations I've read of here on ES so far, if the controller isn't getting hall signals (from it's sensorless board) it won't do anything.

I'd suspect either the short (to axle, probably) at the motor, or something open or failed in the sensorless board itself, which might be repairable.

I'm about half a mile south of Metrocenter, if you want to try to get together to solve it. You're a little far for me to ride to you with much in the way of test equipment, especially trying to haul the the scope--it's bigger than my cargo pod by far and I wouldn't want to haul it on the trailer. But I might be able to set aside an afternoon to come down your way and check out your controller with my motor.
 
If you must buy a new controller that one of Lyens does look yummy. I suspect a short or a cut wire, because of the intermittent thing, and it may have damaged the controller. Hopefully just a broken wire in the hub, and no damage to the brains.

So somebody expected a kit retailing under $400 to come with an impressive controller? For awhile it was about the only handy sensorless option after the pedal first clyte controllers sold out. Nice to know somebody smart saw a market niche needed filling.
 
dogman pulled another one out of his hat!!!!
Two of the three wires had cuts from the edge of the hub axle cutout wire channel. they looked good from outside the motor, but once the covers were off.... the truth was found. So, its off to the store to buy some new wire.
this afternoon will be some dremmel work to remove all sharp edges!!!!!! then some soldering!!!!

thanks for the help.

bob in phx
 
Nah, just been there and done that, several times. Once in the axle, another time when the wire rubbed on the tire.
 
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