Help selecting a hub motor

[farmerjoe99]

I'm currently collecting parts and building a warrior trike to make my one electric tadpole trike
and I'm trying to decide which hub motor to go with.
It will be ran on a 60v 20ah(20s2p) headway pack and probably a 12 or 18 FET controller total weight including rider and E-parts should be under 270lbs.
I'm not exactly sure what speed I will be comfortable going with the trike but I at least
want to be able to cruise at 30mph and sustain that up hills so that I can keep up with local traffic
If I'm comfortable going that fast sustained 40mph on flats would be nice but not mandatory(I'd like the option)
(also from running #'s on a simulator if the motor is powerful enough to do that I'll have the option of mounting it a
mountain bike and running it at 25-30mph without fear of overheating)

now I have to do some more reading on headway's but I'm thinking I'll want to limit the battery to
40amp cont or 2c so as not to overly stress the cells. Does that sound right?

How much ground clearance is recommended for a tadpole trike?
I would possibly have to modify the trike for more clearance to use 17in moped rims...

So hopefully that gives you a bit of a criteria so you can help me better.
So here's what I've been considering let me know what you think of them and if you have others
you think would fit my need better:

My first choice is a MXUS V2 3000 3T in a 17 or 19in moped wheel. $500ish
This seems to fit my needs quite well though it a little more than I'd like to spend but it would work.

Leaf 1500 hub motor in bicycle rim $250ish
I don't know as much about these but it looks like it could be an option and I'm hearing great things on them,
the price is good, I'm just wondering if I'll ending up wanting more power later on.

And just last night I went through and read the whole thread(minus all the graph don't know what they mean yet)
on QS motor's particularly the QS 3000W 205 50H V3 at around $400 with a moto rim from them, This looks to be a real beast with all the power potential
I'll ever need but I'm wondering if its way more than I need? or want and will draw to many amps for my system?

I don't know as much about the last two and since they aren't on the Ebikeca simulator I'm not sure how they would perform for me...

So any comment and criticism's is welcome if you need more info about something in my build I can try
and answer any questions to help you give an accurate answer.
Thanks in advance,
Joseph

 

[farmerjoe99]

Any thoughts on which motor would be best for me?

How many amps can the battery pack handle?

And for any of you trike rider what speed are you comfortable riding at?

 

[Drunkskunk]

What motor is best really depends on your actual needs. Your idea of a hill might be a lot different from mine. Most ebikes with only a 40mph top speed would struggle to maintain 30mph up a 10% grade with someone my size and weight on it. But you might weigh 83 pounds and your final bike might be under 40. Or you might eat my body weight in doughnuts daily and be planning a build that cracks concrete under it's weight.
We need more information.

Picking a battery voltage before you choose a motor, or even have a clear understanding of your performance needs is premature. That's like deciding that in the next conversation you have with a stranger, the 5th word you say will be "Ocelot", regardless of the person you speak to or the context of the conversation, and regardless of what the 4 words preceding it will be. There are a lot of steps in designing and building an ebike. Deciding on the proper battery is one of the last.

There is a wide range of battery technology and voltages. what is best for you will depend on what motor you end up with and your specific performance needs from that motor.


So give us more information, and we can help.
What we need right now is a definition of the hills you plan to ride. You can use several online map programs to get the grade of those hills. We also need to know the approximate weight of you and the bike. It would also help to know what trike you plan to mount this on. "Warrior" is a pretty generic name.

 

[wesnewell]

Although headways are rated fro 10C or more, most people say they're only good for 3C, which would limit it to 60A continuous. Way more than enough. If money is not a problem, the nxus 4503 with a 40-60A controller would be a good choice. Otherwise any of the cheap 48V 1000W kits on ebay with a new 40-60A controller would probably be more than satisfactory.

 

[farmerjoe99]

What motor is best really depends on your actual needs. Your idea of a hill might be a lot different from mine. Most ebikes with only a 40mph top speed would struggle to maintain 30mph up a 10% grade with someone my size and weight on it. But you might weigh 83 pounds and your final bike might be under 40. Or you might eat my body weight in doughnuts daily and be planning a build that cracks concrete under it's weight.
We need more information.

Most of the hills I'll be riding are under 7% though some of them are a mile or two long.
and the ones I would want to sustain 30mph are around 4%.

We also need to know the approximate weight of you and the bike. It would also help to know what trike you plan to mount this on. "Warrior" is a pretty generic name.

total weight including rider and E-parts should be under 270lbs.
Joseph

I'm 5'8 152lbs and Its looking like the trike with electrics will be right around 100lbs
Sorry thought the atomiczombie warrior was a little better known, here's a few pictures of them:

It's looking like the battery will be mounted behind/below the seat on the drop tube.

Joseph

 

[farmerjoe99]

Although headways are rated for 10C or more, most people say they're only good for 3C, which would limit it to 60A continuous. Way more than enough. If money is not a problem, the mxus 4503 with a 40-60A controller would be a good choice. Otherwise any of the cheap 48V 1000W kits on ebay with a new 40-60A controller would probably be more than satisfactory.

Thanks, thought I read somewhere they like 2-3c cont thanks for clarifying,
I'm thinking the Mxus maybe the way to go get a 3T in 17in or 19in moped rim,
but I recently saw these other option and I did want to get one thing when another would have been better.
I am on a budget but I understand things cost money total goal for project is +- $1500.

I don't think it will apply to me at my amp lvl's but at what points should one upgrade the stock phase wires on the Mxus v2?
Still interested to here if any think another motor would be better?

 

[Simonvtr]

Hi Joe99

I build myself a warrior trike over the summer here is my link

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73065

I first started with a belt drive and a 900watt scooter running 48v and got me 25mph.
I fried a controller then replaced the controller and fried the motor.
After talking to kanye motor sport I settle on a 6t maxus motor.
A 6t maxus on a 17" moped rim got me 20mph @ 48v.
The torque was amazing compared to my scooter motor.
The kick going 20mph felt so much faster then the kick from the scooter motor going 25mph.

I have since then moved up to 22s @ 90v. My top speed is 31mph @ over 300lbs.
The torque is really good and I regularly take my daughter with me on rides in a children bicycle trailer.

I barely slow down going up hills less then 8% grade.
I once tested going up a 15% grade hill and it slowed down to 22mph from 30mph.
When you are only a few inches off the ground going 30mph feels really fast.
Anything faster then 30mph being a none suspension trike the ride gets pretty rough.

Good luck and I hope to see a fellow warrior trike build on this forum.

Simon

 

[Triketech]

From what you said you want speed. In my case I wanted hill climbing and 25 MPH is just fine for top speed.

You may want to look at either a Golden motors Magic Pie 4/5 or a Bafang Mid Drive.

This might help too: http://www.triketech.com/Drivetrain/PowerAssist/PowerAssist.html

 

[farmerjoe99]

Picking a battery voltage before you choose a motor, or even have a clear understanding of your performance needs is premature. That's like deciding that in the next conversation you have with a stranger, the 5th word you say will be "Ocelot", regardless of the person you speak to or the context of the conversation, and regardless of what the 4 words preceding it will be. There are a lot of steps in designing and building an ebike. Deciding on the proper battery is one of the last.

There is a wide range of battery technology and voltages. what is best for you will depend on what motor you end up with and your specific performance needs from that motor.

My mistake, however I was able to get a good deal on them and since they are headway's I should be able to reconfigure that pack if need
and I could likely buy a few more cells or another pack to make up to a 72v 30ah pack.
(In which case I would look into making a battery box like on the ffr/outrider trikes.)

So testing that out it looks like another option would be Mxus 4504(4T) at 72v
would be a good option but that would cost my another $200-300 in batteries
but if that would be better I'm open to suggestions.

 

[wesnewell]

I have a 4504 on a fat bike with basically 29" dia. wheels. It will do ~40 mph with my 270lbs on it. For your trike I'd definitely go with a 4503, especially if you are going to use a smaller rim. With a standard 26" bike tire and rim it would do close to 50 mph. But to be perfectly honest for a 20s lifepo4 pack you don't need anything more than one of the cheap 48V 1000W kits from ebay to achieve what you want on that trike. Just replace the stock 63V max controller for $50 or less and you're set.

 

[farmerjoe99]

Hi Joe99

I build myself a warrior trike over the summer here is my link

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73065

I first started with a belt drive and a 900watt scooter running 48v and got me 25mph.
I fried a controller then replaced the controller and fried the motor.
After talking to kanye motor sport I settle on a 6t maxus motor.
A 6t maxus on a 17" moped rim got me 20mph @ 48v.
The torque was amazing compared to my scooter motor.
The kick going 20mph felt so much faster then the kick from the scooter motor going 25mph.

I have since then moved up to 22s @ 90v. My top speed is 31mph @ over 300lbs.
The torque is really good and I regularly take my daughter with me on rides in a children bicycle trailer.

I barely slow down going up hills less then 8% grade.
I once tested going up a 15% grade hill and it slowed down to 22mph from 30mph.
When you are only a few inches off the ground going 30mph feels really fast.
Anything faster then 30mph being a none suspension trike the ride gets pretty rough.

Good luck and I hope to see a fellow warrior trike build on this forum.

Simon

Good to know and thanks for chiming in.
I go back and forth from thinking 30mph is about as fast as I'll go and then I think the longer flat trips
it would be nice to go a little faster... right now the fastest I've gone on a ebike is 25mph that was on a bmx.
and that was fine and alot of fun.

 

[farmerjoe99]

From what you said you want speed. In my case I wanted hill climbing and 25 MPH is just fine for top speed.

You may want to look at either a Golden motors Magic Pie 4/5 or a Bafang Mid Drive.

This might help too: http://www.triketech.com/Drivetrain/PowerAssist/PowerAssist.html

I'll have to check out the magic pie never really looked at those,
for this build I think I'll stick with a hub motor.

Also I saw today Ebikesca is having a sale on their crystalite motors that puts
them at a nice price although running them on the simulator it looks like they Mxus are ruffly 6-8% more efficient,
which surprised me...

 

[farmerjoe99]

I have a 4504 on a fat bike with basically 29" dia. wheels. It will do ~40 mph with my 270lbs on it. For your trike I'd definitely go with a 4503, especially if you are going to use a smaller rim. With a standard 26" bike tire and rim it would do close to 50 mph. But to be perfectly honest for a 20s lifepo4 pack you don't need anything more than one of the cheap 48V 1000W kits from ebay to achieve what you want on that trike. Just replace the stock 63V max controller for $50 or less and you're set.

I guess I could try a 9c clone but I think I'd rather get a little more power/head room
as it looks like my uses would be pretty close to the limit of a 9c.
And I think the leaf 1500 would be better than a 9c? in which case
I would go with that over a 9c as its still in a nice price bracket but more efficient and powerful.

What are your thought on the leaf vs mxus?
Any news on the Leaf getting put on ebikesca simulator?

From lack of comments on it I'm guessing the QS motor is way more than I need?

Thanks for your help,
Joseph

 

[wesnewell]

My only thoughts are that one is 1500W rated and the other is 3000W rated. Assuming they're both rated fairly accurately, the 3000W motor can take twice the power before burning up., and can provide more power for acceleration, assuming the same Kv rating and voltage. Still, a 1000W motor paired with your 64V 20s2p headway pack will do what you want and will be a lot cheaper at ~$200 for the 48V 1000W kit and ~$50 for a new controller to match your battery pack.