High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

[neptronix]

On second thought, maybe i could run the eZee motor on something sad like 500w so that the hills still hurt, and make my nightly ride a more difficult one.. so that i'm getting the same bone stress, but get to see more

The crappy thing is that when i put the battery on, i no longer have space for cargo ( spare tube, tools, water, etc ).
If i do that, then i cannot ride for a day or two, because it's a big fabrication job.

Maybe it's time to hunt down a second recumbent as a backup bike.

 

[thundercamel]

That sounds like a more enjoyable plan to me. It's going to be real rewarding when this is all done

 

[neptronix]

Still trying to find a secondary recumbent. Really considering a bike E or a bachetta strada. In the meantime, i was at the hardware store ( lowe's ) and found a real game changer for mounting a battery on the back of a bike like this!



Coincidentally, the em3ev battery is just about 5 inches wide, so it'd sit on this thing perfectly. I can hold it down to the rack using straps. I just have to cut out some strap slots.

I'm going to cut this to size of the em3ev battery and drill it into the rear of the frame, creating a permanent wide rear rack. This is awesome

Since this piece is a couple feet tall, i imagine the remainder could be used as a rear battery mount for my next recumbent also.

 

[neptronix]

The rear battery holder rack is almost finished.. just used an angle grinder, drill, and file.. need to find the right position to nail it into the rear of the frame.

I say almost finished because i think i need some side to side movement support, so i've just got a little more work to do.. but.. 80% of the way there. Probably also could use a coat of black paint. But yeah this will hold the battery, and some panniers will ( hopefully ) be able to drape off the sides

 

[neptronix]

I just got out of surgery. Doc says i should be able to bike ride tomorrow . We'll see how i'm feeling once the anesthesia wears off.. :lol:

 

[www.recumbents.com]

 

[neptronix]

Here's some comedy. The surgeon revised my bone holding frame to be a more flexy and basic type, to encourage the bone to grow. Technically it's called an ilzarov frame. Invented in the 1930's by a Russian dude who tinkered with bikes and later put his mechanical engineering knowledge to work in the field of orthopedics.



I'm part man, part bicycle for at least the next 2 months. :lol:

Anyway, it's about to storm, so no bike riding for me, but the garage is a mess so i'm going to clean up and prepare for the next project: a larger trunk, and painting/mounting the rear battery rack.

 

[ZeroEm]

by neptronix » Jul 25 2019 7:48pm
I just got out of surgery. Doc says i should be able to bike ride tomorrow . We'll see how i'm feeling once the anesthesia wears off..

Had my leg crushed too eight years to get over it, don't think it was anything like you are going thru. best of luck and healing!

 

[neptronix]

So i've been riding other recumbents, trying out various styles - seeing if there's anything better.

I don't like the steering/handling characteristics of SWBs at all. The faster, suspensionless recumbents ( Rans, Bachetta etc ) are also no fun on our streets, because you cannot get them up to speed without anxiety of getting slammed about by our potholes etc. In my opinion, both can be ruled out as platforms for high speed electric bikes.

I haven't found a LWB locally but really want to try one. CLWB seems to be where it's at tho.

Looking at other recumbents made me realize the value of what i have. I believe the 'bent is a cannondale engineer's pet passion project; someone thought long and hard about how to design it in an optimal way. Cannondale left very few possible improvements on the table. It's an awesome machine that only the Maxaraya Ray 2 comes close to competing with.

The Atomic Zombie folks got me excited about building something along these lines:

I've decided that if i find that the cannondale is not up to the task of high speed, i'm going to build the above as a practice bike, and then design + build the next generation cannondale bent.

 

[amberwolf]

You might also look at this site:
https://sites.google.com/site/recycledrecumbents/home
Long time ago when I was designing CrazyBike2 (and ReCycle before it) I borrowed ideas from there.

 

[neptronix]

That site is cool as hell, and i love the idea of repurposing unwanted, unloved, uncomfortable, and slow diamond frame bikes into superior machines. A happy ending for some metal that was born in the wrong body


I had a revelation about the rear tailbox construction, which has been torturing me for some weeks. I knew going into this build that i wanted a good bit of storage space, and also wanted the rear to be aerodynamic too. So i've been hunting for a box of very specific dimensions that will fit inside a fairing. In looking at more boxes and thinking about it, I realized i was trying to design things backwards, because the perfect shaped box doesn't exist.



https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-We...KRB4NQDTHPQ&psc=1&refRID=R60990PNCKRB4NQDTHPQ

Because of the strengthening lines on this box, i can bolt various shaped pieces of coroplast+aluminum on to make this box into something resembling the shape of a proper tailcone. If it's only 75% as good as the 'fairing first, storage last' idea, i'm okay with that. It sure beats nothing!

 

[ScooterMan101]

https://aazzaa.de/free-trike-project

This is a Tadpole , but worth looking into since it has full front and rear suspension , and looks to be a home made project .

 

[neptronix]

I've been spending quite a bit of time reading about 'bents on roadbikereview and bentrideronline.
One common modification seems to be to bypass the 'mid drive' to reduce friction on the chain, gaining a couple watts of friction back, and reducing the rotating mass of the bike drivetrain ( which a recumbent has about 2x more of vs. a regular bike! )

A 'mid drive' in 'bent terminology is a secondary reduction or passthrough of chain torque, as a means of managing the chain shape and tension etc.

Many bents use idlers, guide tubes which make noise, or the 'mid drive'.



Since i plan this bike to be a long distance cruiser, and pedaling will be pretty constant, i'm going to throw a couple bucks at the drivetrain to see if i can gain a little leg power. As a bonus, i feel like the resulting chain line makes the bike look a bit more aggressive, which i kinda like.. also on my list is adding some proper BMX pedals to complete the look.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

I tried a massive 60T front chainring on my BikeE for a while:

This let me pedal comfortably at around 50Kph with the rear 11T and a 20 x 2.1" tyre.
I had some issues with the chain dropping off and one bad crash as a result of trying to get the chain back on while still moving at 50kph when the chain got wrapped around the rear wheel and stopped it dead when it hit the rear rim brake. ...yeah that hurt :|

I ultimately switched to Schlumpf ATS speed drive as I wanted to be able to reduce my cadence further and this meant I could switch back to the 46T front chain ring (with it's guards on both sides to prevent the chain dropping) and can still pedal comfortably at up to 55kph now. You can kind of see it in this photo:


If you do go with the larger front chain ring option, make sure you can keep the chain on. Dropping such a long chain can be really dangerous.

Cheers

 

[thundercamel]

There are some large chainrings that still have guards, but they're pretty pricey. I like the compactness of the Schlumpf, but I'd also like to try a torque sensing bottom bracket someday.

https://trisled.com.au/product-category/chain-rings-guards-rollers/

 

[Peterfr12]

Hi

i hope Neptronix you will recover well from your surgery. Be patient.

if you need large chainring with guard, you can check this website:
https://www.dutchbikebits.com/alligt-chainrings.

it is expensive but very well made and light. i just received my 80t ring (yes 80t) from them yesterday.

i dont understand how can you ride safely with such small wheel on your recumbent at 40 mph as mentioned in the first page. i had a 26 inch rear and 24 inch front on my setup fully suspended and at 45 mph i did not want to go through big potholes. The other issue is stability when the road is wet, muddy in the autumn when you engaged a bent road.

i changed the motor to a bigger one (MXUS) and upgraded both wheels to 19 inch motorbike wheel with motorbike tyre. it was a long job as i have to lengthen the frame to accommodate larger tyres and designed new dropouts. i had to change the fork too to a downhill ones. i will show you some pictures soon.

you can purchase recumbent steel frame from nazca in low countries or aluminum frame from Azub in Czech republic. they ship oversea.

Best regards,
Peterfr

 

[neptronix]

I tried a massive 60T front chainring on my BikeE for a while..
This let me pedal comfortably at around 50Kph with the rear 11T and a 20 x 2.1" tyre.

Jesus, really? i think i take the mid drive setup i have for granted then. Ideally i'd like the bike to pedal up to 40mph, but would settle with 35. I'd probably need a 70T+ chainring then, which would look goofy and create the chainline from hell.

Having to add a schlumpf to get to where i need to be would be playing musical chairs with drivetrain friction.

I suppose the best i can do is change the mid drive to have 2 chainrings only, in order to reduce rotating mass.

I had some issues with the chain dropping off and one bad crash as a result of trying to get the chain back on while still moving at 50kph when the chain got wrapped around the rear wheel and stopped it dead when it hit the rear rim brake. ...yeah that hurt :|

Yikes. How was the fall? I imagine that crashing a recumbent is a lot nicer on the body than falling twice the distance off an upright.
I read a report of a guy who had built a fairing for his bike E and went down at high speed. The coroplast took the road rash. He got back up and rode it home with no injuries.

Also, i think your bike E conversion is pretty cool. I have my eye on a model with rear suspension on eBay right now. I think converting to a front 20" wheel would be cool because it would lower the rear seat angle and raise the bottom bracket in one go, creating a big improvement in aerodynamics. Surely it'd make handling worse, but having had ridden a SWB, which is almost a "prank bike" in terms of handling, going halfway to SWB type handling wouldn't be too bad.

The cannondale is amazingly maneuverable for a recumbent. I imagine that the Bike E is similar

 

[neptronix]

I hope Neptronix you will recover well from your surgery. Be patient.

Thanks; i'm happy just to be able to ride a bike.

if you need large chainring with guard, you can check this website:
https://www.dutchbikebits.com/alligt-chainrings.

It is expensive but very well made and light. i just received my 80t ring (yes 80t) from them yesterday.

Those are super cool!! I will probably put one of the giant 80Ts on my second recumbent, which i plan to be more like a rolling art project, whereas this bike is under strict aesthetics requirements to look like a mixture of chopper, bmx, and offroad bike. The bike gets a lot of compliments and i'd like to keep it looking sharp so that maybe i plant a seed in some people's minds that recumbent bikes aren't just for nerds and retired dudes.

I dont understand how can you ride safely with such small wheel on your recumbent at 40 mph as mentioned in the first page. i had a 26 inch rear and 24 inch front on my setup fully suspended and at 45 mph i did not want to go through big potholes. The other issue is stability when the road is wet, muddy in the autumn when you engaged a bent road.

This is the biggest concern i have. The cannondale can take a wide 26" in the rear because it uses the swingarm of one of their mountain bikes. A rear 24" ( or 18" in motorcycle size? ) and a front 20" with suspension would probably be the best. The question is, does raising the bike so much create a detriment to handling.. i don't know..

We do not have major problems with potholes where i live. Most of my road problems are from irregular and cracking pavement. Also, traveling above 30mph will be rare, and only done to keep up with the speed of road traffic in situations where there is no bike lane or sidewalk.

I have pedaled the bike on ice before and am not worried about traction very much. The rear wheel slips, but you can still control the bike. I feel more confident on sand and water on this bike than any upright i've ever ridden.

 

[dequinox]

I'm not super clear on what your goals for the recumbent are (I may have read a while back but don't recall entirely, other than durable on pothole roads and fast 40mph or so), and don't know if you've already thought about it, but here's a throwback to Justin's trans-Canadian rig.

It has a semi-recumbent configuration, durability of a standard bike frame, some room for batteries, and you could put a standard front-suspension on it of whatever caliber you wanted. Only downside would be the rear suspension problem... but you could trick out this configuration with some aero streamlining pretty "easily".

Also, I saw some traffic on chainring guards... let me know and I could CAD up and 3D print a chainring guard. I have a 300x300 mm print bed. I'd just need accurate dimensions on a napkin sketch with a straight-on photo of decent quality.

 

[ScooterMan101]

If you want to stay with having a 2 wheel recumbent then this is one of the best I have seen so far. He has been silent for a couple of months , so don't know when his kit will be for sale or how much $ he will be selling for , or if
he will sell just the rolling chassis or only a complete bike .

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=100348

 

[neptronix]

here's a throwback to Justin's trans-Canadian rig.

Very cool and Ahead of it's time, for sure

[youtube]SJ9APdQPEkw[/youtube]

It has a semi-recumbent configuration, durability of a standard bike frame, some room for batteries, and you could put a standard front-suspension on it of whatever caliber you wanted. Only downside would be the rear suspension problem... but you could trick out this configuration with some aero streamlining pretty "easily".

Ha, sorry but i already have something better. And i do believe justin also does.. he has a rans stratus or something.
But he doesn't go anywhere near as fast as i'm looking to go.

Also, I saw some traffic on chainring guards... let me know and I could CAD up and 3D print a chainring guard. I have a 300x300 mm print bed. I'd just need accurate dimensions on a napkin sketch with a straight-on photo of decent quality.

haha, thanks for the offer. I usually like big metal ones so what i typically do is take a junk large sprocket from my local bike collective and machine off the pointy gear bits and file it smooth until it's a shiny light weight durable protector..

 

[neptronix]

If you want to stay with having a 2 wheel recumbent then this is one of the best I have seen so far. He has been silent for a couple of weeks, so don't know when his kit will be for sale or how much $ he will be selling for , or if
he will sell just the rolling chassis or only a complete bike .

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=100348

I'm a huge fan of the electrom but really want to stick to the light weight, narrow bicycle chassis as much as possible. That thing would look out of place in a bike lane or rolling through a park. Maybe more at home on the open road, hm? i really like my bikes to have the versatility of a bicycle, so i'm always looking to jam as much power and range into something that still sorta looks like a bicycle

Of course you can see that aesthetic in my last build ( 6kW, 1.25kwhrs of battery ):

 

[amberwolf]

haha, thanks for the offer. I usually like big metal ones so what i typically do is take a junk large sprocket from my local bike collective and machine off the pointy gear bits and file it smooth until it's a shiny light weight durable protector..

YOu can also use the bottom of pans found at thrift stores.

Spinningmagnets has a thread or post somewhere about making sprockets that way, too.

 

[neptronix]

My name's neptronix, and i'm a recumbentoholic.

I bought a Bike E with rear suspension and i'm pretty excited about it. I really really like CLWB recumbents and decided to get rid of my road bike and buy the Bike E as sort of a light weight short range cruiser that's easy to bolt stuff on and off thanks to it's rectangular shape.

When i get a chance, i'm going to film myself riding through a park that's a busy obstacle course of things and people to demonstrate how awesome these CLWB type bikes can maneuver. I also developed an aerodynamic position that allows me to sustain a bit over 20mph for a long period of time and need to show that.

I will also demonstrate the Bike E, which is around 10 pounds lighter than the big and beautiful yellow bike. I'm excited to see how it climbs hills compared to the cannondale. It has less drivetrain friction and less weight, so i think it makes a better pedal bike anyway.

Waiting on a variety of parts in the meantime.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Hey so awesome you bought the BikeE! You won't regret it!

I'd probably need a 70T+ chainring then, which would look goofy and create the chainline from hell.

Having to add a schlumpf to get to where i need to be would be playing musical chairs with drivetrain friction.

I suppose the best i can do is change the mid drive to have 2 chainrings only, in order to reduce rotating mass.

I think a Schlumpf might come close in efficiency to the 'mid drive' chain rings. You should look into it further as I think they are a great solution.
Failing that those large chain rings with built in guards look good. Had I known about those when I was doing my bike I might have just gone with a 65T option instead of the Schlumpf. The Shlumpf is the single most expensive part on my bike.

Yikes. How was the fall? I imagine that crashing a recumbent is a lot nicer on the body than falling twice the distance off an upright.
I read a report of a guy who had built a fairing for his bike E and went down at high speed. The coroplast took the road rash. He got back up and rode it home with no injuries.

The fall was bad, but not bad enough that I couldn't ride home.
You need to look up 'Leg Suck'. While the distance you fall from a recumbent might not be as bad, the angle your leg can catch the ground at when coming off can cause some pretty bad leg injuries. I've had several bad hip and knee injuries as a result of falls where I unconsciously put my leg out at speed. That's one of the reasons I ride with clipless pedals now.

Also, i think your bike E conversion is pretty cool. I have my eye on a model with rear suspension on eBay right now. I think converting to a front 20" wheel would be cool because it would lower the rear seat angle and raise the bottom bracket in one go, creating a big improvement in aerodynamics. Surely it'd make handling worse, but having had ridden a SWB, which is almost a "prank bike" in terms of handling, going halfway to SWB type handling wouldn't be too bad.

The cannondale is amazingly maneuverable for a recumbent. I imagine that the Bike E is similar

Well as above...congratulations on getting it. I always wanted a suspension version of the BikeE. The handling is great for sure, but the ride quality is not on the rigid version. I've resorted to large tires and low pressure to try and compensate, but I still find I'm holding on for dear life sometimes over really rough sections.
The only catch with the suspension version is you would be limited should you decide to do a frame mounted pack like I did:
[youtube]JM3Sqll5n00[/youtube]

I'm keen to see someone else try it though...you just won't be able to fit as much capacity or you will need to split it up.

Post a picture of it when you get a chance.

Cheers