How can these board specs be correct and have a top speed 130km/h??

[thedarkcarver]

Raith Vengeance Carbon 4WD Specs:​

DECK MATERIAL: Carbon Fibre
WHEELBASE (AXLE TO AXLE): 76cm (30 inch)
DECK WIDTH: 10 inches
TRUCKS: 180mm Patented Direct Drive Reverse Kingpin Scarlett Red Precision
Trucks ~1mm positive truck rake. 46 degree front and 30 degree rear
truck base-plate angles. 90A Barrel Bushings.
WHEELS: 80mm, 74a 88 Wheel Co. Maverick Pro Urethane Wheels
MOTOR: Quad 2400W-rated 5060 custom brushless sensorless motors
MOTOR CONTROLLERS/ESC: Two Dual 100A ESC’s, FOC motor commutation.
BEARINGS: ABEC 9 precision steel ball bearings
BATTERY: 40.7V, 10AH, 407Wh custom built 11S2P configuration LiPo rated for 150A maximum continuous discharge with custom BMS.
RECHARGE: 2hr
REMOTE: Patented Knuckle Duster remote with 3 torque modes
WEIGHT: 12kg
RANGE: 45km (21.7 miles)
TOP SPEED: 130km/hr (81mph)
MAX LOAD: 120kg / 265lb
SUITABLE TERRAIN: Sealed surfaces- asphalt & concrete roads
SLIDES: Yes
BRAKING: FOC regenerative braking with smooth engagement

They are claiming that the battery pack is LiPo?? Dont think this could be correct? Can someone debunk these specs or could they actually checkout and be legitmate? Or have they just put all the wrong specs on the website? Ive riden plenty of boards with more than 407Wh and they can barely reach 50-55km/h. How could this board possibly hit 130km/h?

 

[thedarkcarver]

Raith Vengeance Carbon 4WD Specs:​

DECK MATERIAL: Carbon Fibre
WHEELBASE (AXLE TO AXLE): 76cm (30 inch)
DECK WIDTH: 10 inches
TRUCKS: 180mm Patented Direct Drive Reverse Kingpin Scarlett Red Precision
Trucks ~1mm positive truck rake. 46 degree front and 30 degree rear
truck base-plate angles. 90A Barrel Bushings.
WHEELS: 80mm, 74a 88 Wheel Co. Maverick Pro Urethane Wheels
MOTOR: Quad 2400W-rated 5060 custom brushless sensorless motors
MOTOR CONTROLLERS/ESC: Two Dual 100A ESC’s, FOC motor commutation.
BEARINGS: ABEC 9 precision steel ball bearings
BATTERY: 40.7V, 10AH, 407Wh custom built 11S2P configuration LiPo rated for 150A maximum continuous discharge with custom BMS.
RECHARGE: 2hr
REMOTE: Patented Knuckle Duster remote with 3 torque modes
WEIGHT: 12kg
RANGE: 45km (21.7 miles)
TOP SPEED: 130km/hr (81mph)
MAX LOAD: 120kg / 265lb
SUITABLE TERRAIN: Sealed surfaces- asphalt & concrete roads
SLIDES: Yes
BRAKING: FOC regenerative braking with smooth engagement

They are claiming that the battery pack is LiPo?? Dont think this could be correct? Can someone debunk these specs or could they actually checkout and be legitmate? Or have they just put all the wrong specs on the website? Ive riden plenty of boards with more than 407Wh and they can barely reach 50-55km/h. How could this board possibly hit 130km/h?

 

[gromike]

I must be an old man, but 80mph on a board, scooter, or bike seems to be a bit to fast for survival.

 

[thedarkcarver]

I must be an old man, but 80mph on a board, scooter, or bike seems to be a bit to fast for survival.

no such thing

 

[amberwolf]

Looks like the usual marketing BS, see below:

WHEELS: 80mm, 74a 88 Wheel Co. Maverick Pro Urethane Wheels

SUITABLE TERRAIN: Sealed surfaces- asphalt & concrete roads

80mm...that's, let's see; 3.15".

We have height differences between sidewalk segments around here that can be half that amount (more in a few places); missing chunks of pavement on the streets are often that kind of height difference to the rest of the road; even the "waves" of distorted asphalt from large vehicle braking and acceleration can be at least half that height or more--and all these things are much more often found near the edges of roads where anyone with one of these would have to ride (or die under a large vehicle, if they didn't get ticketed or arrested first).

This must be made for indoor skate surfaces that are perfectly smooth; if you rode this on a street or typical sidewalk at even a small fraction of the supposed max speed you'd be sent flying off it headfirst at that max speed when it stopped or flipped as it hit the numerous er...imperfections... :lol: in either of those surfaces.

No suspension, either...kaBLAM kaBLAM kaBLAM kaBLAM kaBLAM kaBLAM down even a good-condition sidewalk....

MOTOR: Quad 2400W-rated 5060 custom brushless sensorless motors
MOTOR CONTROLLERS/ESC: Two Dual 100A ESC’s, FOC motor commutation.
BATTERY: 40.7V, 10AH, 407Wh custom built 11S2P configuration LiPo rated for 150A maximum continuous discharge with custom BMS.

So it has a 400A load to supply with a 150A battery. I'm sure that's good for the cells and BMS. Can't wait for the fires.

Of course, with only 10Ah, the 400A would exhaust it in under a minute and a half. Short ride.

Four 2500w motors...10kw capability? 400A of controller, supplied by a 150A 40.7v battery....150 x 40.7 = 6105W.

If you don't mind setting the battery on fire and have sufficient load to pull the full 400A from it, that's 400A x 40.7v *** = 16280W.

*** (voltage sag at those kinds of loads would probably bring it down to 30-something volts, so you would likely get at best 3/4 of that)

RANGE: 45km (21.7 miles)

Not at the speeds it claims--you'd have to be pretty conservative with it to get that.

TOP SPEED: 130km/hr (81mph)

I'd guess that might be the *motor* top speed, unloaded, offground. Or the board's top speed, without a rider....

 

[glennb]

I think you’re supposed to lie down on them, like a luge. No? Seems the most sensible way to achieve high speed.

 

[thedarkcarver]

no such thing

Looks like the usual marketing BS, see below:


80mm...that's, let's see; 3.15".

We have height differences between sidewalk segments around here that can be half that amount (more in a few places); missing chunks of pavement on the streets are often that kind of height difference to the rest of the road; even the "waves" of distorted asphalt from large vehicle braking and acceleration can be at least half that height or more--and all these things are much more often found near the edges of roads where anyone with one of these would have to ride (or die under a large vehicle, if they didn't get ticketed or arrested first).

This must be made for indoor skate surfaces that are perfectly smooth; if you rode this on a street or typical sidewalk at even a small fraction of the supposed max speed you'd be sent flying off it headfirst at that max speed when it stopped or flipped as it hit the numerous er...imperfections... :lol: in either of those surfaces.

No suspension, either...kaBLAM kaBLAM kaBLAM kaBLAM kaBLAM kaBLAM down even a good-condition sidewalk....




So it has a 400A load to supply with a 150A battery. I'm sure that's good for the cells and BMS. Can't wait for the fires.

Of course, with only 10Ah, the 400A would exhaust it in under a minute and a half. Short ride.

Four 2500w motors...10kw capability? 400A of controller, supplied by a 150A 40.7v battery....150 x 40.7 = 6105W.

If you don't mind setting the battery on fire and have sufficient load to pull the full 400A from it, that's 400A x 40.7v *** = 16280W.

*** (voltage sag at those kinds of loads would probably bring it down to 30-something volts, so you would likely get at best 3/4 of that)



Not at the speeds it claims--you'd have to be pretty conservative with it to get that.


I'd guess that might be the *motor* top speed, unloaded, offground. Or the board's top speed, without a rider....

I got an email reply from someone at Raith Boards saying:

Hi Derek,
Yes the specs are correct! I set the world record on a Vengeance. It has an 11S2P high discharge Li-po battery.

If you have any other questions please don't hesitate to ask!

Cheers

Raine

 

[thedarkcarver]

I got an email reply from someone at Raith Boards saying:

Hi Derek,
Yes the specs are correct! I set the world record on a Vengeance. It has an 11S2P high discharge Li-po battery.

If you have any other questions please don't hesitate to ask!

Cheers

Raine

This doesnt make sense. LiPo has a very slow discharge rate which is why its used for powering small things... So with such a slow discharge rate how could this acheive such high specs? And 4WD just uses twice the juice and doesnt return any higher speeds, so how could such a small battery provide thit amount of power??

 

[amberwolf]

There are many kinds of "LiPo", including RC Lipo, which is often claimed to support C-rates in the hundreds of A (though they dont' really, since they heat up quite a bit doing this, with significant voltage sag, which means they aren't truly able to handle it).

The RC stuff usually come as 5Ah cells, so 2p of those would give you 10Ah.

 

[thedarkcarver]

There are many kinds of "LiPo", including RC Lipo, which is often claimed to support C-rates in the hundreds of A (though they dont' really, since they heat up quite a bit doing this, with significant voltage sag, which means they aren't truly able to handle it).

The RC stuff usually come as 5Ah cells, so 2p of those would give you 10Ah.

According to voltaplex.com the 11S3P BATTERY PACK WITH SANYO GA CELLS SPECIFICATIONS TABLE says the dimensions of this battery are

Length, max.	20.13 cm (approximate)
Width, max.	5.49 cm (approximate)
Height, max.	6.51 cm (approximate)

This is way too small to be the battery on the Vengeance Board... but it has 409Wh and 10.35Ah just like the Vengeance 11s3p... Im so confused.

 

[amberwolf]

Sounds like the company is full of...marketing.

If they actually used some of the better RC LiPo pouch cells, they could potentially get the current claimed, for the <4 minutes the pack would have capacity for at 150A. (they might get the 400A for less than a minute, assuming the pack didn't explode and had cells actually capable of >133A each, along with the series and parallel interconnects).

But there's zero chance they could use the GA cells to run it (heck, I am not sure you could even run that current thru the interconnect tabs):

Per the testing at

Test of Sanyo NCR18650GA 3500mAh (Red)

the Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA cell is 3500mAh nominal, so in 3p it *could* get (under nominal loading, not heavy) 10.5Ah.

At 3.6v nominal, 11s gets you 39.6v, though. To get the 40.7v, they'd have to be using them at a higher charge state than they're meant for, for 3.7v nominal.

And they are only a 10A cell, so 3p of that can do 30A continuously, no way they are doing 150A from it (much less 400A to give each of the four controllers it's 100A max).

Discharge curve shows they can do 15A with extreme voltage sag (and thus internal heating) and loss of capacity at that rate--even at full charge they drop below their nominal voltage under 15A. At 50A they'd probably just explode. :lol: Quote from the tester

The cells are rated for 10A and at 15A discharge the batteries gets very hot, on the first cell I terminated discharge at 75°C and the second cell I terminated at 85°C (The maximum allowed cell temperature is 70°C).

Not a chance they could do what's claimed. Here's the discharge time curve

 

[thedarkcarver]

Sounds like the company is full of...marketing.

If they actually used some of the better RC LiPo pouch cells, they could potentially get the current claimed, for the <4 minutes the pack would have capacity for at 150A. (they might get the 400A for less than a minute, assuming the pack didn't explode and had cells actually capable of >133A each, along with the series and parallel interconnects).

But there's zero chance they could use the GA cells to run it (heck, I am not sure you could even run that current thru the interconnect tabs):

Per the testing at

Test of Sanyo NCR18650GA 3500mAh (Red)

the Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA cell is 3500mAh nominal, so in 3p it *could* get (under nominal loading, not heavy) 10.5Ah.

At 3.6v nominal, 11s gets you 39.6v, though. To get the 40.7v, they'd have to be using them at a higher charge state than they're meant for, for 3.7v nominal.

And they are only a 10A cell, so 3p of that can do 30A continuously, no way they are doing 150A from it (much less 400A to give each of the four controllers it's 100A max).

Discharge curve shows they can do 15A with extreme voltage sag (and thus internal heating) and loss of capacity at that rate--even at full charge they drop below their nominal voltage under 15A. At 50A they'd probably just explode. :lol: Quote from the tester

View attachment 341359


Not a chance they could do what's claimed. Here's the discharge time curve
View attachment 341360

Could we now conclude that not only is this false marketing but just not true. I mean the board must actually be capable of 130km/h because someone did actually set the world record with the Raith Vengeance.... Maybe the board was built to only withstand 130km/h for a few minutes because that's all it was designed to do and It is not actually meant to be a practical board for being used as a mode of transport?

 

[amberwolf]

Looks like the record is real, at least

Fastest speed on an electric skateboard

The Guinness World Records Official site with ultimate record-breaking facts & achievements. Do you want to set a world record? Are you Officially Amazing?

www.guinnessworldrecords.com

but it does not say anything about what (other than "electric skateboard) was actually used to do this. So it could have been a customized version of this board. One of the two images in the page show a Raith marking on a board, but you can't tell anything about it's internals. Both images show what looks like very smooth very fresh asphalt.

For a one-shot use like a record you could trash a battery pack by overdrawing from it, but those GA cells just aren't capable of the claimed max capabilities. I imagine that an RC Lipo or similar pack was used to do the record stunt, in place of whatever the production cells are--but if so, the specs of that pack shouldn't be published as the specs of the production unit.


Either way, claiming that a board can do a certain speed because of a record like this isn't realistic for an end-user or buyer, even if it's actually true. Claiming that it *did* do that speed for a record, separately from it's actual specifications, and providing all of the conditions needed to achieve it, would be honest marketing.

Fastest speed on an electric skateboard

The Guinness World Records Official site with ultimate record-breaking facts & achievements. Do you want to set a world record? Are you Officially Amazing?

www.guinnessworldrecords.com

"WhoRAINE KENT
What132.37 KILOMETRE(S) PER HOUR
WhereAUSTRALIA (BULLSBROOK)
When17 SEPTEMBER 2022
The fastest speed on an electric skateboard is 132.37 km/h (82.25 mph), achieved by Raine Kent (Australia) in Bullsbrook, Western Australia, Australia, on 17 September 2022.
Raine attempted this record for personal achievement."