How good is Cyclone 4kw coaxial suspension bike?

[Tommm]

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean disable the crank chainring freewheel? If so, yes it should be disabled so the cranks can turn independently from the motor.

Ok. I have found the freewheel inside the motor previously, but I think it might be spot welded to a metal tube bit, so flipping it might not be so simple but I haven't spent too much time figuring out what's happening.

Also, not sure if you know this already, but the motor never exerts power to the square taper axle. It is translated through a freewheel to the chainring directly.

 

[FredYellow]

Ok. I have found the freewheel inside the motor previously, but I think it might be spot welded to a metal tube bit, so flipping it might not be so simple but I haven't spent too much time figuring out what's happening.

Are there pictures or a video online of the motor internal parts and assembly?

Also, not sure if you know this already, but the motor never exerts power to the square taper axle. It is translated through a freewheel to the chainring directly

Agreed, in stock form it won't, however if you reverse the motor freewheel the motor would in fact start driving the square taper crank axle when turning counterclockwise. That's why the crank freewheel must be disabled to let the crank run free.

 

[Tommm]

Ok. I have found the freewheel inside the motor previously, but I think it might be spot welded to a metal tube bit, so flipping it might not be so simple but I haven't spent too much time figuring out what's happening.

Are there pictures or a video online of the motor internal parts and assembly?

Not really. But worst case you seperate it with a chisel or ask for a seperated one from paco. (Or just confirm it can be done easily with him.) I don't think this is a show stopper. Might be just me taking it apart in the wrong order or not pulling hard enough on press fitted stuff.

 

[FredYellow]

Ok. I have found the freewheel inside the motor previously, but I think it might be spot welded to a metal tube bit, so flipping it might not be so simple but I haven't spent too much time figuring out what's happening.

Are there pictures or a video online of the motor internal parts and assembly?

Not really. But worst case you seperate it with a chisel or ask for a seperated one from paco. (Or just confirm it can be done easily with him.) I don't think this is a show stopper. Might be just me taking it apart in the wrong order or not pulling hard enough on press fitted stuff.

I asked Paco and he replied:

"Is impossible to modify, because it use different structures
You will need to get new gear box"

When I asked him "if there is a counter-clockwise freewheel I can buy that will fit?
Why can I not turn the clockwise freewheel around? Is it welded? I can cut and weld.

If you have pictures of the freewheel and gearbox parts I could see if I can modify it myself."
He answered:

"You can remove the freewheel inside the gear box and turn around "

Completely contradicting himself just 10minutes earlier...
I doubt Paco can help us any further. I want to make this dual drive elite bike happen because it would be a unique ebike not being limited by the strength of the bicycle chain to transfer massive torque to the rear wheel, while still being stealth both in looks and noise.

It is an expensive risk to take though. Without seeing the freewheel mechanism inside the gearbox I cannot estimate if it's something I can pull off. (I have a TIG welder and occasional access to a lathe)
There must be someone who has pictures of the guts of this thing.

 

[Tommm]

It is an expensive risk to take though. Without seeing the freewheel mechanism inside the gearbox I cannot estimate if it's something I can pull off. (I have a TIG welder and occasional access to a lathe)
There must be someone who has pictures of the guts of this thing.

I kind of lost track of the convo. What exactly are we trying to do here?
Do you already have a coaxial bike? If so, how do you not know what's inside? If not, just order dual side motor already done, with the disc + brake to 104bcd adapter (+a spare if disc with adaptor is consumable) and 170mm frame with tapered headtube, just change from belt to chain and setup a tensioner.

Btw, cyc sells 219h gocart cogs with 104bcd mounts. 53front 63 rear for offroad or 53 front
53 rear for street would be great.

Btw2, eeb frame dropout is 155mm. Coaxial frame is 142mm or 170mm. But you can use any hub. I have 150mm downhill standard hub, in 142mm frame works fine but 157mm dowhill standard hub would be a problem. 170mm hub and frame would work better for chainline. Some hubs have material removed from one side of the hub at the brake rotor bolt holes, be aware.

 

[FredYellow]

It is an expensive risk to take though. Without seeing the freewheel mechanism inside the gearbox I cannot estimate if it's something I can pull off. (I have a TIG welder and occasional access to a lathe)
There must be someone who has pictures of the guts of this thing.

I kind of lost track of the convo. What exactly are we trying to do here?
Do you already have a coaxial bike? If so, how do you not know what's inside? If not, just order dual side motor already done

No I don't have one or I would've dug into it already!
And you can't order the dual side motor, it doesn't exist. It seems like it's a one of a kind made by cyclone, and I'm trying to figure out how difficult it is to convert the right drive to dual drive...

Good info on the hubs and dropout spacing, tnx

 

[Tommm]

No I don't have one or I would've dug into it already!
And you can't order the dual side motor, it doesn't exist. It seems like it's a one of a kind made by cyclone, and I'm trying to figure out how difficult it is to convert the right drive to dual drive...

Good info on the hubs and dropout spacing, tnx

I am not sure what you mean, everything in the youtube videos on their channel is for sale. I have once spotted a rear rack for the coaxial bike (not on the website) and they sold to me when I asked about it. If it is custom welded, they will custom weld whatever amount you need.

 

[sn0wchyld]

It is an expensive risk to take though. Without seeing the freewheel mechanism inside the gearbox I cannot estimate if it's something I can pull off. (I have a TIG welder and occasional access to a lathe)
There must be someone who has pictures of the guts of this thing.

I kind of lost track of the convo. What exactly are we trying to do here?
Do you already have a coaxial bike? If so, how do you not know what's inside? If not, just order dual side motor already done

No I don't have one or I would've dug into it already!
And you can't order the dual side motor, it doesn't exist. It seems like it's a one of a kind made by cyclone, and I'm trying to figure out how difficult it is to convert the right drive to dual drive...

Good info on the hubs and dropout spacing, tnx

dual side is available... it even says on the 'coaxial' page (a single line so easy to miss):

"New Update left side Belt Bike with 26"x2.0" tire or 27.5"x2.1" tires https://youtu.be/-wQoMFWcIu8"

on

http://www.cyclone-tw.com/Coaxial.html

got a quote recently for 530 shipped, just motor and cranks.

 

[Tommm]

Every vid he has it on the smallest cog, the 155mm eeb frame is a bit narrow for chainline, 170mm rear would be perfect.

If you want to upgrade the motor just write him to price "whatever you need to change in motor for upgrade to left side drive" and he will only price the difference. You will still need brake adapter.

Edit, actually from latest pics it would be fine with a 150mm hub and frame.

 

[Chambers]

Anyone have the dimensions of the motor? I have a custom frame design in my head that I want to sense check.

 

[Skaiwerd]

Anyone have the dimensions of the motor? I have a custom frame design in my head that I want to sense check.

Dimensions are on the cyclone website. It’s 180 mm in length that’s 32 mm longer than the normal 3000 w version. Dia of both motors is 136 mm. Both have 95mm between the bolt holes for mounting.

 

[Chambers]

Thanks! Not sure how i missed now that I've looked again

 

[Chambers]

I have modeled a rough version of this motor in inventor (updated based on Tommm's comments below) - Will update if/when I have an actual motor


If anyone wants a copy of this just let me know.

Cheers

 

[Tommm]

I have modeled a rough version of this motor in inventor - Will update if/when I have an actual motor Coaxial 1.JPGCoaxial 2.JPG If anyone wants a copy of this just let me know.

Cheers

Just measured. Motor is 136mm dia, 120mm wide without axles. Axles are standard square taper and stick out 20mm.

 

[Chambers]

Thanks tommm, That makes much more sense considering the motor has 30mm(i assume) magnets - and makes it much more useable!

So the 180mm on the website must be including chainrings etc.

I'll update my model.

Cheers

 

[Tommm]

Thanks tommm, That makes much more sense considering the motor has 30mm(i assume) magnets - and makes it much more useable!

So the 180mm on the website must be including chainrings etc.

I'll update my model.

Cheers

I used a rod to poke it through the holes of the rotor and it is about 45-48mm wide.
So I do believe the coaxial is based on the 4kw cyclone as opposed to the 3kw one because the 3kw cyclone is about 28-30m wide from other reports.

 

[Bengy22]

Sorry to resurrect this post but I was having trouble finding any other posts about this motor with this frame, anyone still have some good opinions on it? I've been riding my brothers bbshd hard tail that I helped him build and it's given me the itch to build an ebike with more power and top speed (max I can get is 38ish mph tucked as much as a 6'3" guy can) and a full suspension would be nice. I figure I would run 72v 60a, hoping for a top speed of at least 45mph.

Anyone still running this motor with this frame and is there any major things I should know of not listed in this thread? And what prices did you pay, I saw someone in this thread got quoted around $1000 in 2020, I just check the site and with shipping they are asking $1700 which is way more than I would want to spend for something like this, someone was mentioning emailing I assume someone at cyclone to get a better price? I know with recent events I should expect to pay more but in my opinion that's a lot more. Thanks for helping a noobie like me

 

[Skaiwerd]

I’d consider this motor. I own two cyclone bikes and the quality is probably going to be similar. I’m seeing $549 for the motor and controller from the cyclone website. Shipping has gone up but I don’t think it is near an additional $500 for shipping. Remember to ask for left hand drive as it’s also offered this way, what I’d get.

 

[DingusMcGee]

You say,"...which is way more than I want to spend for something like this...". Better use your cents -- elsewhere.

You get a frame, motor, throttle and controller. You still need tires, rims, hubs, front fork, headset bearings, handle bars, brakes & rotors, derailleur, shifter, chain, pedals, seat, seat post and a good rear shock since the included one is worthless.

After putting all this together you end up with a lousy long poor designed mountain bike. So you delegate the ebike to being a "townie" ? You will need a thud buster under your seat as the rear suspension is a very poor design -- A rear Fox shock cannot help this unit much. Batteries?

Unless you run a dual chain drive you will be at odds with the motor's chain speed to pedal assist much -- besides the 4K motor does need much assistance.

 

[Bengy22]

You say,"...which is way more than I want to spend for something like this...". Better use your cents -- elsewhere.

You get a frame, motor, throttle and controller. You still need tires, rims, hubs, front fork, headset bearings, handle bars, brakes & rotors, derailleur, shifter, chain, pedals, seat, seat post and a good rear shock since the included one is worthless.

After putting all this together you end up with a lousy long poor designed mountain bike. So you delegate the ebike to being a "townie" ? You will need a thud buster under your seat as the rear suspension is a very poor design -- A rear Fox shock cannot help this unit much. Batteries?

Unless you run a dual chain drive you will be at odds with the motor's chain speed to pedal assist much -- besides the 4K motor does need much assistance.

I get what you are saying, but then would you have a frame recommendation for a leaf 1500w or mxus 3000w build then that is full suspension? Finding a good frame that at has enough space for a battery in the middle while also not breaking the bank, I've searched and can't find anything that's reasonable and I would trust with this amount of power, I guess you can consider the fact that I wouldn't need all those parts so I probably should up my budget a bit. But when looking myself but the main thing to consider would be the wheel set which is $200ish on the cyclone frame, all the other parts that would make the cyclone more expensive I would already want to change out on a fully built bike like suspension, brakes, set, grips etc. I priced out a $500 hard tail bike with a leaf 1500w + cooling mods vs this cyclone (at $1200 though) in a spreadsheet and the cyclone full build is only $300-$400 more cause most of the upgraded parts will be the exact same, the extra cost comes from the wheels, rear shock and 8 speed groupset instead of a 1 speed.
(I just realized you might have meant that $1800 is the price and if I don't want to pay it then find something else, I agree and I would I just noticed a lot of people mentioned "Paco" and getting a good deal that was way less than the site charged so I meant does anyone have any information on this or how to contact him?) and the 1800 is too much for me not including the other parts, I want my build to cost around $2500 total after I build a battery, hardtail is around the $2000 mark and this (if the cyclone was only $1200) is roughly $2300.

I'm not looking for a super hardcore Mtb, the trails I ride that are near me are open to pedestrians and where I live is mostly flat (I checked one of those grade % sites and the biggest hill I would ride is 2% over 1/4 a mile). I've seen a huffy beach cruiser ride these trails LOL. The shock I will be replacing with something way better that whatever they offer, I'm not looking for something amazing but better than a hardtail, is the rear suspension on this frame really that bad? I'm only looking into a full suspension cause it would be nice to have a little more suspension but the 29er 2.8 tires I have already do a decent job, I've gotten up to 40mph exact on that bike with a bbshd and above 35ish it starts to get a little sketch on the bumps, nothing super worrying but I wouldn't go faster that 40mph even if I could. 90% of my riding is on hard pavement due to lack of better trails and I like going faster than I feel would be safe on shared trails so I keep off them unless I'm looking for more relaxing ride around 15mph.

I'm also not too worried about pedaling, I got the bbshd bike if I'm wanting to add my own effort, it's more to make sure that I can stay "legal". I spoke to a best described as a park security in my town after he saw me go up on an incline standing on the pedals and stopped me to chat and he told me that while ebikes are not officially allowed where I live as long as I ride respectfully and carefully no one cares (which I do, never had a issue with people) and he checked to make sure I had pedals, but he told me to please at least ghost pedal which I respectfully do in that area which has a lot of people walking.

 

[DingusMcGee]

Bengy22,

specifically with the Cy 4K frame/motor purchase you get a mounted motor. If you lack the skill/resources to mount a motor then this purchase may solve that part of ebike building.

There are plenty of good used bikes for sale in the USA, some of which are outstanding deals. You will have to shop around as some sellers expect high $$ for junk. From eBay I got a complete Specialized Big Hit for $416 which is far superior to the pipe frame Cy 4K -- no bearings on the suspension parts.

If you lack "shopping around skills" the $$ Sharks will get you at every turn.

An old Zen saying? -- You can't make a mirror by polishing a piece of slate. The seeming analogy here is about the suspension. You might as well be riding a hart tail as trying to polish the CY 4K suspension.

 

[Bengy22]

Bengy22,

specifically with the Cy 4K frame/motor purchase you get a mounted motor. If you lack the skill/resources to mount a motor then this purchase may solve that part of ebike building.

There are plenty of good used bikes for sale in the USA, some of which are outstanding deals. You will have to shop around as some sellers expect high $$ for junk. From eBay I got a complete Specialized Big Hit for $416 which is far superior to the pipe frame Cy 4K -- no bearings on the suspension parts.

If you lack "shopping around skills" the $$ Sharks will get you at every turn.

An old Zen saying? -- You can't make a mirror by polishing a piece of slate. The seeming analogy here is about the suspension. You might as well be riding a hart tail as trying to polish the CY 4K suspension.

Need to get looking more for a good deal then, I assume they must go fast. I can definitely shop around, I'm not scared of used stuff and love a good deal when I find one.

I get what you are saying but don't 100% fully agree, I used to own a $200 amazon special with a rear shock that must have came from the cheapest factory in china, sounded awful but still made a difference on the small bumps imo compared to my hard tail, if I stuck a real shock on it I know it still wouldn't compare to a full suspension from a real setup but still think it's better than nothing.

 

[Bengy22]

For anyone possibly interested I found Paco's contact information or how to get ahold of him through email in a different thread, it's: sales@cyclone-e-bikes . com (no spaces) I just put Paco in the subject and he got back to me within 12 hours. I asked about the price shipped and he let me know that it normally would cost $1850 but he would get if for me for $1650, so much for hoping for the $1100 from two years ago Not sure if I want to go through with a build now with it unless a member on here whos got one can convince me otherwise.....