How Safe is LIPO in Apartments? anyone has experience?

[tomtom123]

I'm thinking of upgrading to a cromotor or HS3540 from my bafang bpm. But to really make the most of those motor, i would have to buy higher discharge batteries. Im thinking of switching to LIPOs from LIFEPO4. How safe can i be with LIPOs in an apartment with no fireplace? anyone has experience? would a huge ammo box with fireproof insulatation, in addition to lipo-safe charging bags work?

 

[Ypedal]

unless you got a balcony ... and even then.. not a good idea. it's not just the flames that suck, it's the smoke that billows out even if the flames are contained.

 

[tomtom123]

Damn . What are some safer high discharging batteries that are not ridiculously overpriced?

LIPOs are the only ones where i can get some good power at under $500.

honestly, i if had a house, i couldn't care much, but in an apartment, my mistakes can possible kill other people in other apartments and burn down the building, then i'd get sued and jailed , more so that electric bikes are illegal in nyc lol

 

[friendly1uk]

Well most fires are related to poor charging practices, but poor cells can catch fire still. I have not read a single case here where a battery burnt up for no reason though. Nor one burning up that was charged as an ev should be. All the fires are related to charging with non ev (generally rc) kit, or in rare cases physical damage. So using the forum as a guide, you are safe unless you use the wrong kit.

Your phone, my phone, your neighbours phone, they all have a lipo battery. Most laptops too. But last year 150 odd laptops did light up on planes. Iphones lit up. Things do burn up, It is simply an odds game. I come back to the reports here though. Nearly all fires are from poor charging practices. You must use a bms and ev charger for reasonable odds. You live in a block, and if you burn it down through negligence I can see a whole world of pain ahead for you. You must do it properly. Then all you risk is that rare chance you actually have a bad cell.

I would charge on the stove top with the extractor fan running for the first dozen charges, following which your extremely unlikely to have any bother (because you won't be using toy chargers)

 

[hydro-one]

very similar prediciment to me. i have witnessed a lipo fire and it was probably the scariest thing in my life. here is the thread. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=46011

knowing this i still bulk charge my own 15s10ah hk lipo pack in the stairwell of my 1st story apartment. i am very vigilant on checking cell level voltages. lipo do tend to stay in balance. however, can be easily damaged physically.

my aging lipo pack gets warm, at 4c. it is 3 years old with over 1000 cycles. saggy but still puts out around 5-6ah. i only run pack level lvc very conservative at 3.7 per cell.

my next pack will be konions from dr bass. i will run 8-10p and 20-30s. i will be building it as he reccomends keeping the tabs on cell pairs. i will be soldering carefully, with a wet rag and chilling the cells before i solder to the TABS.

hopefully this will result in a safer pack for me and my people. im done with hk lipo i know that. take a 5ah hk cell outside and stick a screw in it and see , you will wonder if the fire department is coming, trust me , bad news.

my learned opinion :wink:

if i was single and living in a tent, i would be ok with it....as it is i have 2 kids and a wife in here to worry about..

 

[Ypedal]

with proper care and diligence, they are reasonably safe, but the thing is that in the unlikely event that anything was to happen.. it's not just your personal belongings and family... it's the whole block.

an iphone or even laptop pack going up in smoke is still bad news, but a pack 100x bigger is just that much worse news lol..

 

[cal3thousand]

I live in an apartment and use LiPo exclusively. I also have a propane stove, several electric heaters, and my wife loves to burn candles. All of them fire risks unless you mitigate those risks to an acceptable level.

I also use Methods' protection kit on all my LiPos, bulk charge primarily and balance every few months.

I also only charge on my front stoop. I'm fairly confident that IF some cells were to get out of whack, that methods' kit will cut charge (I've tested it) before any seriously detrimental conditions arise. Over charging a cell is the number 1 way to start a LiPo fire. (Think about it, if you wanted to TRY to start a LiPo fire, how would you go about it? Need a charger right?). And of course, charging on my cement stoop means that if the pack happens to ignite for some reason, I get nothing more than a smoke show and a black front porch.

The other way to start a fire is from a poorly built pack. So unless you have the confidence in your skills to "overbuild" the pack in terms of safety and you take the proper charging precautions, I would go with NMC cells. I think those split a nice middle between performance and safety. But I also think that it could be more difficult to build a cylindrical cells pack on your own (properly).

 

[wesnewell]

Rc lipo is as safe as you are. There's close to a 0% chance of fire if you handle it properly. That means always use a balance charger when charging. Inspect them for damage every time before you charge. Have a plan in case something does go wrong. Charge near a window or door you can throw the whole thing out if you need to. I've never had a problem in 3 years, but I balance charge in my computer room next to a window I can throw the pack out in case there is a problem. I also run my hand around the pack a various times to make sure a pack isn't getting hot. Just take common sense precautions and if there is a problem it won't be a big one. Now start one bulk charging and walk away and you may get away with it 1000 times, but number 1001 may bite you in the ass. And it may be a big bite.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Here are three high-current options that are not LiPo:

http://www.electricbike.com/high-current-batteries-that-are-not-lipo/

 

[999zip999]

Dealing with super cheap H.k. lipo can be a part of all these lipo fires as Q.Q. goes down with cheap. Lipo fires are true.

 

[friendly1uk]

Rc lipo is as safe as you are. There's close to a 0% chance of fire if you handle it properly. That means always use a balance charger when charging.

Are you having a giggle? There is nothing proper about using non-ev chargers. That is how nearly all the fires start. Proper ev's don't use balance chargers, they are from a different industry. He lives in a flat Wes. He needs a proper ev charger with hvc and a bms with hvc. Two hvc's is like wearing two belts on your trousers. If one fails it is not a problem.

 

[wesnewell]

Don't be an . Using an rc charger is the proper way to charge rc batteries. Using a bms that has no adjustments is not.

 

[neptronix]

My lipos haven't been particularly offended that i've kept them in an apartment for 3 years now.

 

[mark5]

My lipos haven't been particularly offended that i've kept them in an apartment for 3 years now.

Lipocentrism

 

[neptronix]

Definitely!

Want to move on to huge low-power 18650 packs in the future though.. less weight, smaller pack, more capacity.. can't argue with that.

 

[liveforphysics]

NCR18650PD's are awesome cells with amazing QC if you actually are getting real ones (many cheap ones on ebay are fakes).

Samsung makes a pretty wicked 2.5Ah cell that does a legit 10C.

The problem is, people still have fires with 18650 packs simply from poor construction causing cell shorts or failed connections etc.

Also, good LiPo is as safe as anything. The problem is, RC Lipo seems to just be getting worse QC.

 

[neptronix]

I use 18650PD's in my electronic cigarette. Real powerful, for the application anyway. Big fan.

What sort of design would be optimal, safety wise? I was thinking that using those multi-cell holders that you can sort of 'lego' together, then spot weld, would be pretty damn ideal for defeating vibration issues and such.

NCR18650PD's also have some safety features in them, no?

 

[dogman dan]

Bottom line here, is that the RC cells are known to be poor quality.

Because of that, whatever method you choose to charge them, don't store or charge them in a place you wouldn't build a fire.

So what does that mean if you live in an apt? Don't at all? Probably. But at least do a few things that will help. Store them in some kind of fire resistant container, and not in a 1000 wh chunk. That way if one pack flames, it doesn't set off 10 others. 4 packs per container might work ok.

Get a large ceramic pot, or use the oven if you must charge inside.

Be particularly careful not to ding your packs by carrying them around naked.

 

[Ypedal]

i still say, balcony or not at all when it comes to apartments.

 

[friendly1uk]

Don't be an . Using an rc charger is the proper way to charge rc batteries. Using a bms that has no adjustments is not.

lol Oh you are funny Wes. Just because you buy them from an RC shop does not mean you have to charge them with an RC charger. What do you want to adjust the bms for too, they look after themselves, that is the whole point. Although you can hook up a computer to even some of the cheapest one's to mess about if you so please.

Why not finish off just one of our running discussions. Here is the last time you couldn't answer after starting to question the industry's standard charging method: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57124&start=25&hilit=contactor

 

[dogman dan]

Even the balcony might still require using a bbq or clay pot to be truly safe.

 

[wesnewell]

Why not finish off just one of our running discussions. Here is the last time you couldn't answer after starting to question the industry's standard charging method: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57124&start=25&hilit=contactor

Because I have better things to do than waste my time with someone shown the facts just disregards them. You are one of these people. Have a nice life.

 

[Sunder]

Even the balcony might still require using a bbq or clay pot to be truly safe.

That's what I use (well, a metal box). That said, I've destroyed two packs (Drained one to 0v, other one with a dodgy cell), with nothing even vaguely resembling catastrophic failure.

Still better safe than sorry though.

 

[999zip999]

Plus you must get rid of the shitty packs.

 

[liveforphysics]

Plus you must get rid of the shitty packs.

+1

Cull your collection of packs with cells that self-discharge, or have any substantial increase in Ri or decrease in capacity relative to the other cells. It can mean anything from it's had foil to tab connection failure from a poor internal ultrasonic weld joint (A123 style), or some abnormally substantial contamination or internal corrosion or a number of other failure modes.

What exactly went wrong doesn't matter much though, you don't want it in your pack anymore even if it wasn't a perticularly dangerous failure mode.

Bring them to a Radioshack or something to pile in a box with other sketchy batteries to ensure a more impressive fire. lol Or better yet, make cool videos to share with the forum of them blowing up.