is it that much better or efficient to use solder

Link said:
Eh. I use rosin-core solder. Bought a 1lb spool and it looks like it's going to last me years. I can't even find the solid stuff anymore without looking.

I'm not talking about the flux core of the solder wire itself. I'm referring to additional liquid flux, dipping the stripped ends of wires in it before applying heat and solder will ease and speed up the tinning or making the joint. Additional liquid flux will also ease the soldering and removal of through hole and surface mount components. A few drops here and there will improve the quality of your soldering in general due to a reduction of oxidation and the quicker transfer of heat. The quicker heat transfer also reduces potential damage to heat sensitive components.

Try it, you'll like it.
 
John in CR said:
snowcrow said:
...Silver Conductive Epoxy http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/8331.html?PHPSESSID=0b4fe43614eac8b072530583013cbd32 Blessings, Snow Crow

Does this silver epoxy stuff work well? Is it expensive? (I hate when they won't show a price). I'm terrible at soldering, so if there's an equally good epoxy alternative, I'm all ears. Epoxy and duct tape are 2 of my favorite things to use.

John


No!

do not use silver epoxy to connect wires together.

silver epoxy is widely used in the IC manufacturing area to bond tiny integrated circuits down onto base metal in the casing.
not to use this as a substitute to solder wires together. silver epoxy can flake & chip apart - besides, it is less conductive than solder. it also requires that you bake the epoxy at 150 deg.F for about an hour to cure the epoxy (this is the process we use at our work facility.)

best to learn how to solder properly.
 
lostcoyote said:
John in CR said:
snowcrow said:
...Silver Conductive Epoxy http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/8331.html?PHPSESSID=0b4fe43614eac8b072530583013cbd32 Blessings, Snow Crow

Does this silver epoxy stuff work well? Is it expensive? (I hate when they won't show a price). I'm terrible at soldering, so if there's an equally good epoxy alternative, I'm all ears. Epoxy and duct tape are 2 of my favorite things to use.

John


No!

do not use silver epoxy to connect wires together.

silver epoxy is widely used in the IC manufacturing area to bond tiny integrated circuits down onto base metal in the casing.
not to use this as a substitute to solder wires together. silver epoxy can flake & chip apart - besides, it is less conductive than solder. it also requires that you bake the epoxy at 150 deg,C for about an hour to cure the epoxy.

best to learn how to solder properly.
NO that is 150 deg F for a curing time of 15 minutes, 5 hours at room temp and it DOES NOT FLAKE OFF, ITS FLEXABLE, READ THE Specifications Blessings, Snow Crow
 
We need a definitive answer on this silver epoxy stuff. I've got controller mods that I'd like to do, but wouldn't dare try soldering those tiny pieces. I admit that even I can do a soldered wire splice, but I've been an epoxy fan since my grandfather introduced it to me in the 60's. His brother was a chemist involved in those early developments. Epoxies have come a long way since then, and I try to use them whenever appropriate. If you ever eat Cheese Whiz, you'll know from now on that John in CR's great uncle invented the stuff and was probably thinking about epoxy at the time.

John
 
ur right, 150F for 15 min.
we use a different process for our stuff at work.... 150F for an hour (not C) - we also use gold epoxy now more than silver.


also, on that link provided...
"Use in place of traditional soldering on heat sensitive components. Good for repairing defective traces and creating jumpers on boards. Can be used as an effective heat sink adhesive. "

it doesn't say good for splicing 2 wires together.
use at your own risk then.

i'll solder my wires and leave the epoxy for IC related stuff.
(yes on repairing small traces but if the trace carries large doses of current, i'd flow solder there as well)
 
NO, guys. Do yourselves a favor; learn to solder. it is easy. (If I can do it, anyone can.)

The biggest trick is having the right temperature for the right job. For general soldering, you will probably find a 25 watt soldering iron to be ideal, but if you are soldering anything bigger than 10 ga (maybe even 12 ga), you will want a 40 watt iron as well. You can get both at Radio Shack (assuming they have anything like RS in CR .. if not, on eBay, from Mouser or digikey, etc.) for about $30, and have enough left over for a small spool of solder. If you are doing fine soldering (like changing surface mount components inside a controller, you would want a 15 watt, grounded iron as well.

Or get an adjustable soldering station. This is what I use; cheap enough to not be an extravagance for a hobbyist, good enough to satisfy all but a real pro:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=zoeOT%252b4NU2aCYBXmiwiAUA%3d%3d
Probably the smartest tool investment I have made this year....

Another little trick to build a cheapie adjustable soldering iron is to use a regular old light dimmer (triac) and wire it in series with the iron.. That way, you can buy , say, a 30 watt iron, and have a single iron that will do wires from 10 ga to 30 ga. If you aren't going to be doing a LOT of soldering in the future, you should be able to build one of these for about 20 dollars total.

The second biggest trick is having the right solder / flux for the job. (Never use acid core or acid based flux for electronics):

The easiest solder (for me, anyway) to use is thin 60/40 (%) tin-lead solder with a rosin flux core. (Yeah, the super-environmentalists and the ROHS police are going to kill me for saying that, but it doesn't make it any less true). Sometimes even with the rosin core solder you will need some extra flux. I think most of the pros use solid wire solder and add their own flux as needed, but it takes experience to get it perfect that way. 63/37 tin-lead solder has a slightly lower melting point, and therefore should be easier for beginners to solder with, but I think that 60/40 flows better, so that's why I recommend it.

Stay away from the silver bearing solders for general electronics use. I say this even though I just got back from Radio Shack with some. Their higher melting temperature and reduced 'flowing liquidity' makes them harder to use, and despite their silver content, are not significantly better at conducting electricity. The only place I use silver bearing solder is in places that are going to get real hot; I'll be soldering some beefier wires to some motor brushes in a while... they get hot enough to nearly melt my good old 60/40, at 370°F but not enough to melt the silver bearing at 430°F

The third biggest trick is having the right size and shape tip on your soldering iron, and keep it clean between between joints. So use a wet soldering sponge.

Stay away from that silver bearing glue. It is expensive and of limited use. I've used it, and the silver bearing conductive ink: They both have their place, but not in building e-bikes, unless you are doing some temporary repairs inside the controller. Their conductivity and durability is not as good as regular solder, despite the manufacturers hype. To get the silver particles to adhere, they have to be surrounded by epoxy or other adhesives.... which are not known for high conductivity.

Every man should be able to solder at least passably well.... unless you want to concentrate on getting rich enough to hire someone to come in to take care of that kind of stuff for you :mrgreen:
 
lostcoyote said:
i personally like the metcals.
I assume that that was in reference to my soldering iron recommendation above?

Sure, Metcal products are great..

But unless you are going to be doing a lot of soldering, on a regular basis, it is hard to justify the premium price....

Or are you referring just to fluxes and other soldering related chemicals?
 
Metcals are easier to use in that they automatically adjust the amount of wattage required to keep a consistent temperature, but like the man said spendy. I'm lucky in that I can use the ones at work after hours or slip one of the assemblers a few bucks and let them do any of the "brain surgery" that I'm not up to doing myself. Another thing to keep in mind is to keep tinning the tip during use in addition to wiping on that wet sponge. You also want to tin your tip right before you shut down your iron and let it cool this will keep tip oxidation at bay.
 
Sturdly said:
.... You also want to tin your tip right before you shut down your iron and let it cool this will keep tip oxidation at bay.

Good idea. I tin every 15 minutes or half hour, when I'm soldering, but I don't on shut down. I'm gonna have to try that. Thanks.
 
Ack!~ :? Are you guys sayin that my butt connectors are not worthy?

How can i check to measure that my connections are sound, perhaps using my multi-meter?

I have about 4 feet of 10 gauge wire running the length of my bike and other smaller connections near the controler that all have butt connectors with shrink wrap. I do however use a proper crimper which squeezes the wire&aluminum connector in a "U" shape to spread the contact area and looks like a very good connection.
I love working with those connectors. Should i add solder?
 
recumbent said:
Ack!~ :? Are you guys sayin that my butt connectors are not worthy?

How can i check to measure that my connections are sound, perhaps using my multi-meter?

No multimeter will do it. The point where the probes contact the metal generate more resistance than the join.

As long as you're not able to loosen it with a firm pull, it's fine.

recumbent said:
I love working with those connectors. Should i add solder

Eh...I'm staying out of that argument. There was a discussion over on the V about it, and I don't think we ever got a definitive answer.

FWIW, I usually crimp and solder.
 
recumbent said:
Ack!~ :? Are you guys sayin that my butt connectors are not worthy?

How can i check to measure that my connections are sound, perhaps using my multi-meter?

I have about 4 feet of 10 gauge wire running the length of my bike and other smaller connections near the controler that all have butt connectors with shrink wrap. I do however use a proper crimper which squeezes the wire&aluminum connector in a "U" shape to spread the contact area and looks like a very good connection.
I love working with those connectors. Should i add solder?
Looking at the Anderson Powerpole Sets I noticed the 45 amp and lower to be crimp style contacts, and from 75 amp and higher to be a solder cup contacts. FWIW, I usually crimp and solder any connection carrying over 400 watts. Blessings, Snow Crow
 
I've been crimping and it seems that I've no problems. I tried soldering, but apparently my 30 watt pen-point Radio Shack iron doesn't really work well with this lead-free solder considering it took me like 20 minutes to reliably attach some connector to 10 gauge wire. After learning of crimping, and crimping *properly*, I can crimp almost anything with this cheap crimper from the local Home Depot. Even powerpoles, although they require more care and work to crimp properly with the cheap crimpers(You have to mold it into the "right shape" for the housing to accept it) but it sure beats paying 60 dollars for a specialized powerpole crimper for the small volume of work I have to do. Apparently, some even claim that "mechanical soldering"(crimping) is even better than regular soldering when performed correctly(I have my doubts about that, but the difference in electrical efficiency is most likely less than 2-percent and probably less than 1 percent, assuming proper crimping and soldering for comparison.).

I could move onto soldering by getting the "right tools", but I'm not seeing the immediate advantages with my future work. For PCB work, it seems the pen-point iron will be fine.
 
Crimping is fine if done properly. Most connections in a car are crimped. Your multimeter will not detect a bad crimp, but pulling on the wire hard will. Any heating is also a sign of a bad crimp (or any type of connection).
 
he also mentioned that his crimp connectors were aluminum. i would recommend you stay away from using aluminum ferrules to crimp copper wire. if you don't know how to solder already, it's time to learn. be creative to find tin/lead solder if there are already laws preventing you from buying it. check in pawn shops or garage sales for old spools of 60/40 with rosin core. estate auctions where some old geezer like me has croaked, and you may find some. lead solder is not harmful to your health unless you eat the soldered joint. but if you are that frustrated with your soldering, a heart attack is likely more imminent.
 
Back
Top