Is there a "best" cheapo ebike build kit?

markz said:
This is a diy forum, we build stuff here. :mrgreen:
It's not a DIY forum.

It's a ebike general discussion forum and in it we also discuss pre-built (aka OEM) bikes. An example is the long time member in the thread below who has done many DIY conversions but finally bought an OEM bike instead of doing another DIY conversion:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=102321

In 2021 OEM makes more sense than DIY in most scenarios. Back in 2012 when I first registered on Endless Sphere I could not say this was true.
 
Ah so now we're splitting hairs are we :lol:

Not including the word "primarily" or "mostly" is my fault :lol:
Don't worry I often mess up on that, I don't have the gift of the gab like others do, or do I have the high level arguing ability, searching skills etc etc
But I try, I dig conflict every now and then.

Well lets play the game, I will find the post somewhere
Found it
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=111945&p=1658040&hilit=forum#p1658040

Ding ding ding
Round 1 has begun

I won't edit it but correct it here
This is MOSTLY a diy forum, we build stuff here. :mrgreen:

I like that I took a dig at the mtbr forums, that was a nice touch I did. :wink:
markz said:
Why bother being married to an OEM manufacturer, thats about the worst you can do.
You might as well be hanging out over at MTBR forums :lol:

ebike4healthandfitness said:
Buy an OEM ebike. This is the time of the year they go on sale.
 
Markz, not sure why you mentioned "Why bother being married to an OEM" when that Rad Power bike I linked uses off the shelf parts. Nothing to prevent a person from swapping parts.....a person isn't married to the OEM.

A lot of misunderstanding about OEM on this forum.
 
In 2021 OEM makes more sense than DIY in most scenarios

Now that 28-MPH is available in the US, I'd agree for most people.

The vast majority of customers want products that are "plug and play", like a refrigerator.

But there is still a percentage of the population that is happy to pay a little less to get a kit that is more powerful...like me.

I met a driver today that was having trouble getting the cables hooked up right to jump start a car. Installing a kit is something that they would NOT do. Some people will gladly pay $1000 extra to get a nice turn-key ebike.
 
This guy's got cheap batteries I haven't bought anything from them but why don't you ask the other customers in his thread that have and see how well they like it.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=113551#p1679135
48v 19ah 200.00 no charger.
 
Most people actually would spend $1+k extra to get a turn key ebike.
Its just easy for them, people are lazy.
Even the poor people who can't afford the extra money spent, will spend the extra money.

spinningmagnets said:
Some people will gladly pay $1000 extra to get a nice turn-key ebike.
 
spinningmagnets said:
I met a driver today that was having trouble getting the cables hooked up right to jump start a car. Installing a kit is something that they would NOT do.
:thumb: :thumb:

I might add should not do ... they are liable do injury to themselves.

Side note:
When I was a very young tike ... I was outside playing in the dirt (making mud pies or something). Somehow I got hold of a claw hammer. I brought it up to strike a mighty blow ... but I just wound up hitting myself in the top of my head with the claw end.

Well my folks rushed be to the local clinic to see a doctor. He got his light and took a look at the cut. Then he shook his head, turned to my parents and asked: "How is the hammer?"
 
markz said:
Most people actually would spend $1+k extra to get a turn key ebike.
Its just easy for them, people are lazy.
Even the poor people who can't afford the extra money spent, will spend the extra money.

spinningmagnets said:
Some people will gladly pay $1000 extra to get a nice turn-key ebike.

10 years ago there wasn't very many ebikes in the town I lived in and ones that did exist appeared to be exclusively self built. Now ebikes are so common chances are if an adult (or young adult) is riding a bike it is 8 or 9 times out of 10 an ebike (with 95 percent of the ebikes being OEM ebikes).
 
One aspect of OEM that may or may not have been discussed is repair. My OEM bike, which is used about 10% of the time compared to its DIY brother, was "dead". Turned out to be a faulty on/off switch that was connected to the motor by a wire(s) that went through the frame. Couldn't diagnose and spent $200+ for the replacement. The DIY, which has never had a problem, would have been easy to diagnose and repair.
 
2old said:
One aspect of OEM that may or may not have been discussed is repair. My OEM bike, which is used about 10% of the time compared to its DIY brother, was "dead". Turned out to be a faulty on/off switch that was connected to the motor by a wire(s) that went through the frame. Couldn't diagnose and spent $200+ for the replacement. The DIY, which has never had a problem, would have been easy to diagnose and repair.

I do trail work with an organization that owns four Norco bigfoot ebikes, for getting trail volunteers out to the remoter parts of our trail system. One bike had a wire pulled out from over twisting the handle bars. The shop that we deal with couldn't look at it for several days or maybe weeks, so one of the volunteers decided to fix it. We do have a professional well equipped shop. It took him the better part of a day to reconnect the wire, as he had to take the motor out to get at the battery and he said he put it back together three times before everything worked. Next time will be much quicker as he knows how it all fits together now.

My DIY ebike may have a lot of exposed wires, but it is easy to fit them back together when one becomes disconnected.
 
Here is a $527 free shipping ebike with both twist throttle and pedal assist:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Ecotric-26-In-36V-350W-Electric-City-Bicycle-e-Bike-Removable-Battery-7-Speed-Pedal-Assist-White/244737937

Exposed wires so it should be easy to service too.

Seriously why even buy a kit?
 
ebike4healthandfitness said:
Here is a $527 free shipping ebike with both twist throttle and pedal assist:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Ecotric-26-In-36V-350W-Electric-City-Bicycle-e-Bike-Removable-Battery-7-Speed-Pedal-Assist-White/244737937

Exposed wires so it should be easy to service too.

Seriously why even buy a kit?

In my direct observation, most really cheap commercial e-bikes aren't worth the additional effort required to repair them when they fail, which they do early and often. The folks who buy them are overwhelmingly of the helpless/feckless variety, and are unable/unwilling to do their own maintenance.

This is why you should buy a kit instead. Because it's designed to be easy to install, it's by extension easy to maintain. It won't feature the kind of extreme cost-cutting features that make routine maintenance a serious problem.

Example: Ancheer e-bikes (a very popular brand because they are very cheap) don't have an accessible motor disconnect plug. When you get a rear flat (which you will), you have to do the repair with the wheel on a ~1 foot long tether. The wheel is pretty heavy, which complicates doing that if you're not already good at it. It has too-thick spokes, so it needs more frequent truing than a more normal wheel. You can't remove the wheel for truing without disassembling the battery enclosure to get at the controller, and then unplugging the motor inside it. Will the buyer do this stuff? Absolutely not. Nor will he bring in the bike for professional attention until it stops running completely.

My roommate works at another bike shop, and they turn away Ancheer bikes without examination. They're always a losing proposition. I'm sure the Walmart POS you linked would easily qualify for the same policy.

In buying one of these rolling disasters, a low-information consumer might pay about the same as a decent conversion kit, but what they'll get is something that really only lasts until the first major problem. There are very limited circumstances in which that would be a worthy bargain.
 
Chalo said:
ebike4healthandfitness said:
Here is a $527 free shipping ebike with both twist throttle and pedal assist:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Ecotric-26-In-36V-350W-Electric-City-Bicycle-e-Bike-Removable-Battery-7-Speed-Pedal-Assist-White/244737937

Exposed wires so it should be easy to service too.

Seriously why even buy a kit?

In my direct observation, most really cheap commercial e-bikes aren't worth the additional effort required to repair them when they fail, which they do early and often. The folks who buy them are overwhelmingly of the helpless/feckless variety, and are unable/unwilling to do their own maintenance.

This is why you should buy a kit instead. Because it's designed to be easy to install, it's by extension easy to maintain. It won't feature the kind of extreme cost-cutting features that make routine maintenance a serious problem.

Example: Ancheer e-bikes (a very popular brand because they are very cheap) don't have an accessible motor disconnect plug. When you get a rear flat (which you will), you have to do the repair with the wheel on a ~1 foot long tether. The wheel is pretty heavy, which complicates doing that if you're not already good at it. It has too-thick spokes, so it needs more frequent truing than a more normal wheel. You can't remove the wheel for truing without disassembling the battery enclosure to get at the controller, and then unplugging the motor inside it. Will the buyer do this stuff? Absolutely not. Nor will he bring in the bike for professional attention until it stops running completely.

My roommate works at another bike shop, and they turn away Ancheer bikes without examination. They're always a losing proposition. I'm sure the Walmart POS you linked would easily qualify for the same policy.

In buying one of these rolling disasters, a low-information consumer might pay about the same as a decent conversion kit, but what they'll get is something that really only lasts until the first major problem. There are very limited circumstances in which that would be a worthy bargain.

The bike I linked doesn't have the problem you mention with the Ancheer because the controller is outside and separate from the battery.
 
ebike4healthandfitness said:
markz said:
This is a diy forum, we build stuff here. :mrgreen:

In 2021 OEM makes more sense than DIY in most scenarios. Back in 2012 when I first registered on Endless Sphere I could not say this was true.

I call BS.

IMO OEM ebikes are products catering to a specific more affluent younger marketplace only... the prices are effing insanely inflated as well.

As well, products that make you buy new bikes rather than reuse one of millions of regular bikes are socially irresponsible. Most consumers would be better served by a decent conversion kit.

EDIT:
I am referring to those bikes using Bosch and Shimano mid drives that cost $4K or more.

I'm personally convinced that in most markets that consumers will choose faster, more powerful scooters over more expensive ebikes.
 
ebike4healthandfitness said:
The bike I linked doesn't have the problem you mention with the Ancheer because the controller is outside and separate from the battery.

Doesn't matter. There will be something(s) else just as bad and inexcusable. There always is with BSOs. If anything works as intended, they know they spent too much, and make it cheaper next time. BSOs are for selling, not riding.
 
Another Wally World BSO:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Generic-26-In-Electric-Bicycle-350W-Electric-Hybrid-Bike-36V-Ebike-Max-20MPH-7-Speed-Gears-for-Men-and-Women-Electric-Commuter-Bike/748877672

Very useful specification /S:
"Material: Metal"

My real problem with OEM E-bikes is that they are all designed for "Short People" not full grown adults.
 
Some of those wally world bikes are cheap enough, to buy the bike, chuck it on the curb for freecycle, and put the motor kit on a real bike.

They say they have them, in three days. Good luck with that.
 
ebike4healthandfitness said:
The bike I linked doesn't have the problem you mention with the Ancheer because the controller is outside and separate from the battery.


For $527, you get a decent bike, based on what I've seen from Ecotric. I can hardly build an ebike for $527, I bought one of those Battery Clearing House used bafang front wheels for $50 shipped. I used an old controller I had in the parts bin, but ended up having to buy a new one anyway. To be fair, buying those parts ala carte cost about $120. I'm going to be using a $280 Hailong pack with it so I'm at $450.

Ecotric sells a decent cheap ebike. Mine was a $700 folding fat tire model. Has your basic Shimano twist shifter and derailleur, Textro Aries 300 mechanical disk brakes. Only tradeoff that would be expensive to upgrade was steel 20" fat tire rims. Has a solidly constructed 36V 10S-5P 12AH Silverfish battery, even if a row of cells went unbalanced after 2 years. My packs from Luna that date back to 2015 look like they were made by barbarians in the glue age, although they used better cells. The only thing people don't like about these bikes is the 3 level 810LED display with its crude pedal assist.
 
Should be easy to find a cheap ebike, be more easy in a few years time when those stored ebikes with no good batteries are in the way or want to be ridden again and the shock of the cost of a new battery is realized, or that sorry you cant get that battery anymore pops up.
 
markz said:
Should be easy to find a cheap ebike, be more easy in a few years time when those stored ebikes with no good batteries are in the way or want to be ridden again and the shock of the cost of a new battery is realized, or that sorry you cant get that battery anymore pops up.

A lot of OEM e-bikes won't talk to a generic battery. You have to replace a lot of stuff before they get with the program. For something like a Bosch or Shimano Steps equipped bike, it's difficult to make an economic case for jailbreaking them.

The minimum new replacement battery for the dead Specialized Turbo e-bike I have at work is over $500. If I spend that much, I get to find out what else is wrong with it. Probably not gonna happen.
 
ebike4healthandfitness said:
Markz, not sure why you mentioned "Why bother being married to an OEM" when that Rad Power bike I linked uses off the shelf parts. Nothing to prevent a person from swapping parts.....a person isn't married to the OEM.

A lot of misunderstanding about OEM on this forum.
At least that one uses standard size tires: Kenda K-Rad 26" x 2.3" tires
 
markz said:
Just buy the $40 rental hubs, a $30 controller, $5 throttle and figure out your battery

Any leads on cheap rear rental hubs? I could use a coupe if anyone knows about any deals out there :)
 
VictorNYC said:
markz said:
Just buy the $40 rental hubs, a $30 controller, $5 throttle and figure out your battery

Any leads on cheap rear rental hubs? I could use a coupe if anyone knows about any deals out there :)

Most dockless rental bikes don't use them. At their relevant power levels, there's really no advantage to a rear hub, only disadvantages. Maybe you should try front hubs and see.
 
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